Grand Prix changes

[baiden]

Spotowe Fakty reporting that a raft of changes are on the cards (although there is opposition to it - and it's unlikely to happen if Discovery take over the rights from BSI in 2022)

- New scoring system
- Top five only to qualify for the following season - with SEC winner also guaranteed a place
- New qualification system
- Russian GP at Togliatti (replacing Krsko)

The new scoring system would be very familiar (same system used as before, which ended in 2006) with 25 points for the winner, 20 for the second, 18 for the third and 16 for the fourth. Others would add as many points as they scored on the track.

Final decision will be made, and announced after the Frankfurt Conference (Nov 2-3).

[Mark]

The scoring system used at the moment works well.     Is it broken ?    Why change it ?

[baiden]

7 hours ago, Mark said:

The scoring system used at the moment works well.     Is it broken ?    Why change it ?

It says BSI (Paul Bellamy I presume) thinks 'it looks funny when a competitor wins the competition, but has fewer points than the speedway rider who took a lower place.'

[iris123]

6 minutes ago, baiden said:

It says BSI (Paul Bellamy I presume) thinks 'it looks funny when a competitor wins the competition, but has fewer points than the speedway rider who took a lower place.'

It isn’t only in speedway, that is how sport works. Think you can win at tennis, snooker or darts for instance  without winning the majority of points?

[Mark]

And a General Election.

[iris123]

2 minutes ago, Mark said:

And a General Election.

Yup. Trump got less votes than Clinton, but still won

[IainB]

32 minutes ago, iris123 said:

It isn’t only in speedway, that is how sport works. Think you can win at tennis, snooker or darts for instance  without winning the majority of points?

Yes, but those points aren't then totted up to decide an overall winner. Personally I thought the GP's were a lot more competitive when they had the 24 rider line up with riders gradually being knocked out. I understand that the riders probably don't like this as the current system gives a lot of them an easy time

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Yup. Trump got less votes than Clinton, but still won

That is correct. But under the USA electoral system for the presidency isn't the result decided by the verdict in each state rather than the number of votes cast. I understood - and as usual probably wrong!!! - that Trump won the verdict in a majority of states.

[iris123]

37 minutes ago, gustix said:

That is correct. But under the USA electoral system for the presidency isn't the result decided by the verdict in each state rather than the number of votes cast. I understood - and as usual probably wrong!!! - that Trump won the verdict in a majority of states.

Exactly. Isn’t that similar to a tennis player winning less points, but the important ones ?

[Gambo]

21 hours ago, baiden said:

Spotowe Fakty reporting that a raft of changes are on the cards (although there is opposition to it - and it's unlikely to happen if Discovery take over the rights from BSI in 2022)

- New scoring system
- Top five only to qualify for the following season - with SEC winner also guaranteed a place
- New qualification system
- Russian GP at Togliatti (replacing Krsko)

The new scoring system would be very familiar (same system used as before, which ended in 2006) with 25 points for the winner, 20 for the second, 18 for the third and 16 for the fourth. Others would add as many points as they scored on the track.

Final decision will be made, and announced after the Frankfurt Conference (Nov 2-3).

A rider unbeaten in the 20 heats has a total of 15 QR points then finishes 3rd in a S/F for a total of 16.

A rider who has 8 QR pts finishes 2nd in his S/F and last in the Final has 16 pts! 

[waiheke1]

21 hours ago, baiden said:

Spotowe Fakty reporting that a raft of changes are on the cards (although there is opposition to it - and it's unlikely to happen if Discovery take over the rights from BSI in 2022)

- New scoring system
- Top five only to qualify for the following season - with SEC winner also guaranteed a place
- New qualification system
- Russian GP at Togliatti (replacing Krsko)

The new scoring system would be very familiar (same system used as before, which ended in 2006) with 25 points for the winner, 20 for the second, 18 for the third and 16 for the fourth. Others would add as many points as they scored on the track.

Final decision will be made, and announced after the Frankfurt Conference (Nov 2-3).

really hope they dont do this. The scoring system they have now is perfect.

if they think top 8 qualifying is too many, then why give wildcard everytime to 9th and 10th? But again, trying to fix something that is not broken, every rider in next years line up is in the top 20 or so riders in the world, I would argue noone is missing who is in the top 10. No issue with winner of SEC getting a place, I would also be ok with world u21 champ getting a place, but just reduce wildcard to 2 or 3.

[chunky]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Exactly. Isn’t that similar to a tennis player winning less points, but the important ones ?

Of course. It doesn't matter what system you use, there will ALWAYS be anomalies - or at least the possibility of 'em...

[Midland Red]

26 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

really hope they dont do this. The scoring system they have now is perfect.

if they think top 8 qualifying is too many, then why give wildcard everytime to 9th and 10th? But again, trying to fix something that is not broken, every rider in next years line up is in the top 20 or so riders in the world, I would argue noone is missing who is in the top 10. No issue with winner of SEC getting a place, I would also be ok with world u21 champ getting a place, but just reduce wildcard to 2 or 3.

How do you come to the opinion that it “is perfect”?

[CB252]

The current scoring system ensured that we had three riders still in with a shot going down to the last few heats this year.

Closest we've got to replicating the drama of a one off Final for a while.

In round one you'd have had Madsen squeezing into the semis on 8 points and walking away with 25 at the end of the night.  That sort of swing can badly distort who the best rider is over a 10 round series.

They should leave it alone.  No issue with the other changes.

Edited October 10, 2019 by CB252

[iris123]

1 minute ago, Midland Red said:

How do you come to the opinion that it “is perfect”?

Can only answer for myself. Probably no system is perfect, but this seems to be the best we have seen so far. The rider who is most consistent wins. Does that mean the best rider wins? No. We could have a system that means if someone has got the most points after 5 GPs and is then out for the rest of the season is declared WC as he was obviously the best up to that point ? We could have a vote by fans who attend each GP to declare their ‘best’ rider etc. Going back to the old ko system where you just had to get through until the final race is solving a minor problem ( it isn’t really for those that understand sport) and starting new ones that were solved

[chunky]

16 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Can only answer for myself. Probably no system is perfect, but this seems to be the best we have seen so far. The rider who is most consistent wins. Does that mean the best rider wins? No. We could have a system that means if someone has got the most points after 5 GPs and is then out for the rest of the season is declared WC as he was obviously the best up to that point ? We could have a vote by fans who attend each GP to declare their ‘best’ rider etc. Going back to the old ko system where you just had to get through until the final race is solving a minor problem ( it isn’t really for those that understand sport) and starting new ones that were solved

I think most people are in agreement that what we have now works. We had a discussion about it a few weeks back, and I did raise the issue of the winner of the individual GP not being the best rider on the night - maybe winning only the one race. However, the fact that the overall champion was decided by simple accumulation of points seemed to be the main thing that people wanted.

[Mark]

4 hours ago, baiden said:

It says BSI (Paul Bellamy I presume) thinks 'it looks funny when a competitor wins the competition, but has fewer points than the speedway rider who took a lower place.'

Then have the GP podium made up of the 3 highest point scorers on the night.    The two semis and final are used only to score more points and not to decide the GP winner.    Those 3 races could be renamed to signify that change.

[Grand Central]

The changes being put forward in this report sound bloody stupid.

That, in itself,  probably means that the report is accurate.

And worse still they will probably happen

After all, it is quite usual for FIM/BSI to act like complete mentalists and choose to spoil competitions that are working brilliantly. 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Grand Central

[baiden]

If the new points scoring system had been in place this year, Madsen (175pts) would have beaten Zmarzlik (163pts) to the world title. I'll let you decide if you think that's right or not.

Also, it looks like the SEC winner being guaranteed a place is almost certain. Would come into affect next year (2020), so the winner would compete in the 2021 SGP.

[RPNY]

1 hour ago, CB252 said:

The current scoring system ensured that we had three riders still in with a shot going down to the last few heats this year.

Closest we've got to replicating the drama of a one off Final for a while.

In round one you'd have had Madsen squeezing into the semis on 8 points and walking away with 25 at the end of the night.  That sort of swing can badly distort who the best rider is over a 10 round series.

They should leave it alone.  No issue with the other changes.

Well 1996 it was won on the last heat of the series so you never know... I think in the 3 different versions of scoring they've had, I cant remember when it didnt end up with the best rider not being crowned world champion regardless. 

For a new fan, it is kind of weird seeing a guy with 20 point finishing 2nd to a guy on 14 points but it hasnt caused that many problems in the last however many years. No real need to change it but not the end of the world if they do. In my opinion the most important thing is venues and track prep. Get those right and the rest will be fine.