Split Waterman RIP

[Chadster]

Much of it focussed on his post-speedway 'career' but I thought the tone of it was warmer than the same papers obituary of Ivan Mauger.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Chadster said:

Much of it focussed on his post-speedway 'career' but I thought the tone of it was warmer than the same papers obituary of Ivan Mauger.

Perhaps because The Telegraph is an English newspaper and Squire 'Split' Waterman was English! On the other hand Ivan Mauger  was a New Zealander?Just a surmise on my part.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Guest

[Ovalman]

On 10/19/2019 at 9:48 AM, norbold said:

Oh yes, the Krays were wonderful people; they loved their mother and didn't at all threaten, torture and murder people to get their own way. A lovely pair of cheeky East End chappies, unlike all those dark skinned foreigners - every single one of them - who have come to London to be specially violent to old foks.

Just go away BOBBATH and take your Fascist insights with you.

The Krays were nasty sods, like the Richardson's from my area of souf London, but they rarely targeted innocent peeps. But in 60s London it was a lot safer to grow up, and travel on public transport. I could walk to the Den or New Cross speedway, and travel on public transport at night to Arsenal, without any fear, something you don't have now, with all the knife crime and muggings, and terror attacks in London. You even have to be wary during the day now. Years ago there might be the occasional punch-up but you never saw knives, never heard of drugs.

The demographics of places like Befnal Green have changed. The home of the jihadi ISIS girls that went to Syria. Used to be the home of Ackney Awk, West Am and The Arse fans, and those pwoper naughty Kways, cockneys eating pie and mash. Living in 21st. Century inner London wouldn't be for me now, don't like travelling and occasionally working there nowadays.

The level of violence used by some of these gangs now outweighs the old 60s mobs, and taken it to a new terrifying level.

Edited October 25, 2019 by auntie doris

[BOBBATH]

Thank you Auntie Doris-you may be called a fascist also. I should mention I didn't coin this term "Londonistan"-it was the title of a best selling book of the same name  in UK by Melanie Phillips in 2006. It has also been referred to as Londonistan in articles in the New York Times, Vanity Fair and other North American publications. Maybe they are all fascists or perhaps the view is if we ignore reality it will just go away. Too bad you can't point out things without the PC brigade  dumping on you-or maybe everyone is mistaken and the crimes are actually being committed by little old white ladies!!!!

[iris123]

The East End was ever so. And it was often immigrant gangs like the Italians, Irish and Jewish gangs that caused havoc and violence. It wasn't just among themselves, but innocent people

One such story

http://www.whitechapelsociety.com/east-end-policing-in-the-19th-century/

You could also make a case that today, most of the violence seems on the face of it to be between members of the same community. Young black kids seem to be attacked by other young black kids. I went around London including up Seven Sisters Rd and Tottenham during the day without a hint of bother. Had a lovely late Columbian breakfast in a café by the tube station at a very decent price. Think 1.50 for a great Columbian coffee was about the best cuppa and the cheapest price on my recent trip

Edited October 26, 2019 by iris123

[norbold]

This is an extract from my book, "Cracked Eggs and Chicken Soup", based on my dad's memoirs of the East End of London in the 20s and 30s, and shows what happens when racial groups are stereotyped. Luckily there were enough "politically correct" people to put a stop to it at the Battle of Cable Street:

"The mid-1930s became a very scary time for us Jews living around Bethnal Green and Whitechapel as the Blackshirts began to randomly attack Jews on the streets and smash the windows of Jewish shops. It was very unwise to go out on your own, especially after dark, so we normally hung around in threes or fours, came home from the pub together and so on. Mum and Dad were continually warning us not to go out alone and, above all, to make sure Julie was kept safe. They were worried sick about what some of those vile Blackshirt bastards might do to her if they caught her alone. So we never let Julie go out anywhere on her own. We’d go with her to work and take her out to meet her friends and make sure we were there when she wanted to come home. There was a very intimidating and menacing atmosphere abroad at the time and, as Jews, we knew we were the number one targets."

[chunky]

2 hours ago, iris123 said:

The East End was ever so. And it was often immigrant gangs like the Italians, Irish and Jewish gangs that caused havoc and violence. It wasn't just among themselves, but innocent people

One such story

http://www.whitechapelsociety.com/east-end-policing-in-the-19th-century/

You could also make a case that today, most of the violence seems on the face of it to be between members of the same community. Young black kids seem to be attacked by other young black kids. 

Your first sentence echoes what I said recently, that the East End hasn't been "British" for over 100 years.

Your second paragraph describes modern times here in the U.S.

[iris123]

It is a simple fact that the majority of immigrants over the centuries have been poor, so have no other choice but to find cheap accommodation, hopefully near the chance of a job. Dock land areas have tended to be those areas, not only in London or the UK, but around the world. They are then the areas that have had poor standards of living and health and high levels of crime. But they have mainly hosted a majority of people who want to better their lives and especially the chance for their children. And when they have the opportunity move to a better area. This leaving a place for a new generation and so the circle goes on, just the faces change

Bottom line in all of this, is Split had a great career at a high point in speedways history. He should have been made for life, with no need to enter crime. He wasn’t at the bottom of the ladder by any means

I would also say the life you choose is very much your own decision, just like the words you choose. Bobbath made his own strange decision and you can’t just use a get out that ‘others’ use it as well. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by iris123

[Guest]

Back to the subject of the Split Waterman obituary in the 'Daily Telegraph'. This is now appearing in full on several Facebook forums. Very interesting to read.

[Chadster]

I must have been lucky, having lived in London for 40 years, gone around by public transport and never felt threatened. Actually, I did feel threatenedonce, when I went to watch Liverpool at Upton Park and the West Ham fans kicked off big time. Not much evidence of Londonistan there, the make-up of the crowd was almost entirely WASP.

[racers and royals]

Obituary in the Times today.

[NeilWatson]

19 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Obituary in the Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/split-waterman-obituary-7p3pwkrj0?shareToken=9c234529f5f284d44abccf2c00986fa1

 

[Lefty]

What a wonderful read. Thanks for the link.

I reckon the "Pearly Gates" are at risk of being melted down if he's up there in Heaven!!!

[iris123]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:17 AM, NeilWatson said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/split-waterman-obituary-7p3pwkrj0?shareToken=9c234529f5f284d44abccf2c00986fa1

 

Intersting as to who his uncle was that raced at Crystal Palace? Possibly not speedway, as other motorcycle sport was also held there

[iris123]

Guess it could well have been his mother’s brother, so didn’t have the Waterman surname