Split Waterman RIP

[BOBBATH]

Some folks here who have visited there from North America(maybe not Loveland Steve but a lot of Canucks go back and forth)-

they've  found the demographics have changed  exponentially over the last number of years-dare I say it because of immigration from South East Asia, Africa etc.-there have also been a couple of books e.g. by a British author named Michelle something (I want to say Phillips-but am not sure if I am mixing her up with Michelle Phillips of the Mama's and Papa's.). To see Londonistan walk around Tower Hamlets and around the East London former white working class districts- go to Plaistow and walk around there-Plashet Road etc. Hence the name-not a criticism but that's what people see. Having said that obviously there are a lot of "nice" areas- but where did all the old working class folks go who used to run the old corner stores go maybe to new towns like Basildon etc.  East End London sure ain't like Britain anymore. No disrespect to Londoners intended- but hence Londonistan

[chunky]

6 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

Some folks here who have visited there from North America(maybe not Loveland Steve but a lot of Canucks go back and forth)-

they've  found the demographics have changed  exponentially over the last number of years-dare I say it because of immigration from South East Asia, Africa etc.-there have also been a couple of books e.g. by a British author named Michelle something (I want to say Phillips-but am not sure if I am mixing her up with Michelle Phillips of the Mama's and Papa's.). To see Londonistan walk around Tower Hamlets and around the East London former white working class districts- go to Plaistow and walk around there-Plashet Road etc. Hence the name-not a criticism but that's what people see. Having said that obviously there are a lot of "nice" areas- but where did all the old working class folks go who used to run the old corner stores go maybe to new towns like Basildon etc.  East End London sure ain't like Britain anymore. No disrespect to Londoners intended- but hence Londonistan

Immigration has happened for years. Britain - and the US - have been built by immigrants. The East End hasn't been "British" for over a century.

It seems that white immigrants are accepted, but not others. I am not in a position to complain about immigrants, knowing that I am one myself.

Things change. Places change. People change. That's life...

[BOBBATH]

Point taken mate-but I do think crime has gone way up compared to years ago-even in the days of Kray Twins civilians, old folk tended to be off limits to violence in fact in some ways they kept the yobs under control. (this didn't apply to Jack the Hat of course).

[chunky]

8 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

Point taken mate-but I do think crime has gone way up compared to years ago-even in the days of Kray Twins civilians, old folk tended to be off limits to violence in fact in some ways they kept the yobs under control. (this didn't apply to Jack the Hat of course).

Crime has gone up everywhere - and it's all because of a basic lack of respect. People, whatever their race, creed, colour, or nationality, think it's "all about me", and nobody respects law enforcement or authority. You can't discipline kids. Criminals don't get punished, just get a slap on the wrist, because "everybody makes mistakes", and they can be "rehabilitated". 

There are two kinds of people - good people and bad people.

[steve roberts]

5 hours ago, chunky said:

Crime has gone up everywhere - and it's all because of a basic lack of respect. People, whatever their race, creed, colour, or nationality, think it's "all about me", and nobody respects law enforcement or authority. You can't discipline kids. Criminals don't get punished, just get a slap on the wrist, because "everybody makes mistakes", and they can be "rehabilitated". 

There are two kinds of people - good people and bad people.

Plus the fact that the media continually highlights the problem which in my opinion worsens the situation.

[JOS50]

42 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Plus the fact that the media continually highlights the problem which in my opinion worsens the situation.

It might help if adults  desisted the veneration of criminals such as Split, surely a bad example for any young people watching.

[iris123]

6 hours ago, chunky said:

Immigration has happened for years. Britain - and the US - have been built by immigrants. The East End hasn't been "British" for over a century.

It seems that white immigrants are accepted, but not others. I am not in a position to complain about immigrants, knowing that I am one myself.

Things change. Places change. People change. That's life...

Seems quite strange that someone who has left the country has taken a dig at the changing population and asks ‘where have the white working class gone?’ As if it is ok for them to move to Canada, but not for others to move

I had a small discussion with someone on a South London group, who said without really getting to the point they meant ‘Tooting has gone downhill from the 1960s’ my reply was that Tooting was never ‘uphill’ to go down, just the faces have changed

[iris123]

6 minutes ago, JOS50 said:

It might help if adults  desisted the veneration of criminals such as Split, surely a bad example for any young people watching.

Exactly criminals partake in crime and someone always has to be the victim. This rubbish about some good criminals from the old days, ignores the fact there were victims if you rob, cheat, ask for protection money and use violence....

[norbold]

9 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

Point taken mate-but I do think crime has gone way up compared to years ago-even in the days of Kray Twins civilians, old folk tended to be off limits to violence in fact in some ways they kept the yobs under control. (this didn't apply to Jack the Hat of course).

Oh yes, the Krays were wonderful people; they loved their mother and didn't at all threaten, torture and murder people to get their own way. A lovely pair of cheeky East End chappies, unlike all those dark skinned foreigners - every single one of them - who have come to London to be specially violent to old foks.

Just go away BOBBATH and take your Fascist insights with you.

[chunky]

6 hours ago, iris123 said:

Seems quite strange that someone who has left the country has taken a dig at the changing population and asks ‘where have the white working class gone?’ As if it is ok for them to move to Canada, but not for others to move

I had a small discussion with someone on a South London group, who said without really getting to the point they meant ‘Tooting has gone downhill from the 1960s’ my reply was that Tooting was never ‘uphill’ to go down, just the faces have changed

I wondered about that first point too...

As far as your second paragraph, I agree 100%. Similar to my statement earlier about the East End; it's not like things have changed or deteriorated drastically in recent years!

[BOBBATH]

OK OK I take it all back-will concentrate on non controversial speedway items in future!!!

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

OK OK I take it all back-will concentrate on non controversial speedway items in future!!!

I think controversial speedway items are acceptable in threads about speedway. It's controversial items that are not apparently!

[Guest]

15 hours ago, JOS50 said:

It might help if adults  desisted the veneration of criminals such as Split, surely a bad example for any young people watching.

JOS50 makes a valid comment. Should the speedway merits of Split Waterman have been ignored following his death because of his 'non speedway exploits'? IMO no harm has been done in regard to the comments and praise of Split's distinguished speedway career that have appeared. However JOS50 tends to disagree in that regard. It would be interesting so see other points of view.

[chunky]

21 minutes ago, gustix said:

JOS50 makes a valid comment. Should the speedway merits of Split Waterman have been ignored following his death because of his 'non speedway exploits'? IMO no harm has been done in regard to the comments and praise of Split's distinguished speedway career that have appeared. However JOS50 tends to disagree in that regard. It would be interesting so see other points of view.

I think you are missing the point, John. I dont think JOS50 is referring to Split's speedway career (although I could be wrong), but the fact that he is commonly regarded as a "wonderful character" and it is often said that we "need people like him" in the sport today.

Split Waterman is rightly regarded as one of England's greatest ever speedway riders, and we can't - and shouldn't - take that away from him. However, stating that he was a "luvverly fella" and "we need more like him" is stretching it.

Same with Kenny Carter. I never liked Kenny, and in fact I thought he was a psycho tw*t.  However, he too was one of England's finest. We know that there are people - even forum members - who think his name should be expunged from the record books, and nobody should ever mention his name again - because of his final acts. To me, that is ridiculous. His career and his final acts are totally separate, and in any case, we can't - and shouldn't try to - change or erase history.

My own personal opinion of Kenny Carter is that he was not "evil"; he had true mental issues, and it was these that caused the problems. After all, who, in a normal frame of mind, would take their own life? Certainly when children are involved?

Individuals who commit other types of criminal offence, though not as severe, but usually for personal gain, are not suffering from mental health issues, and just commit them because they want to. If they make those decisions, then they should not be looked up to or revered, or simply considered a "cheeky chappie".

Again, that does not and should not be used to destroy their achievements.

[chunky]

FINALLY!

An obituary for Split Waterman has been posted on The Telegraph website; it has been posted within the last few hours.  You can find it at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/

Steve

[Guest]

5 hours ago, chunky said:

FINALLY!

An obituary for Split Waterman has been posted on The Telegraph website; it has been posted within the last few hours.  You can find it at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/

Steve

Thank you for the Link. It's probably me - "it usually is" - but I have a problem actually getting into the full item. From what I did see it looks rather interesting.

[steve roberts]

5 minutes ago, gustix said:

Thank you for the Link. It's probably me - "it usually is" - but I have a problem actually getting into the full item. From what I did see it looks rather interesting.

I experienced same!

I do remember Terry Wogan mentioning 'Split' more than once on his morning radio show some years back now.

Edited October 24, 2019 by steve roberts

[iris123]

1 hour ago, gustix said:

Thank you for the Link. It's probably me - "it usually is" - but I have a problem actually getting into the full item. From what I did see it looks rather interesting.

You have to register to get the full article

[Guest]

1 hour ago, gustix said:

Thank you for the Link. It's probably me - "it usually is" - but I have a problem actually getting into the full item. From what I did see it looks rather interesting.

 

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

I experienced same!

I do remember Terry Wogan mentioning 'Split' more than once on his morning radio show some years back now.

 

37 minutes ago, iris123 said:

You have to register to get the full article

Thank you for the clarification iris123. I will do as you suggest.

[Robbie B]

7 hours ago, chunky said:

FINALLY!

An obituary for Split Waterman has been posted on The Telegraph website; it has been posted within the last few hours.  You can find it at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/

Steve

Thanks Steve for providing the link to Spilt's obituary in The Telegraph I have now referenced this on his wikipedia page, so they will now not have any reason to remove the sad news of his passing.