Well done the S.C.B.

[BWitcher]

2 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Absolute rubbish based on nothing.

The excluded rider is a young kid and yougsters react differently to adults especially when the injuries looked serious as the other rider was down a long time leading to all sorts of rumours in the pits.

The team had nothing to win anyway and the manager concerned is not the slightest bit interested in winning or losing he and his club just want to get kids racing speedway bikes. Not everyone has a 'win at all costs' attitude.The concern was that an innocent rider was being blamed for something he was not responsible for. The manager wanted to keep the riders conscience clear so he wouldn't give up racing, what is wrong with that?

So the S.C.B. are right to fine him £100 and that is justifiable when an ASSAULT attracts a £65 fine???

Justify that for me please?

 

Craig Cook is irrelevant to this incident. 

The SCB acted correctly.

If someone, kid or not, is not mentally strong enough to cope with such an incident they shouldn't be racing in the first place. 

[Fortythirtyeight]

8 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Craig Cook is irrelevant to this incident. 

The SCB acted correctly.

If someone, kid or not, is not mentally strong enough to cope with such an incident they shouldn't be racing in the first place. 

I'll ask it again and I don't care who the rider was.

Justify a £100 fine for a ' dispute' , if that's what you see it as, in the refs box compared with £65 for an assault?

 

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

I'll ask it again and I don't care who the rider was.

Justify a £100 fine for a ' dispute' , if that's what you see it as, in the refs box compared with £65 for an assault?

 

The two incidents are not connected.

I'll ask again why you are concocting such a ridiculous excuse for someone storming a referees box.

If said person is responsible to educating youngsters learning the way in the sport he is most certainly the wrong man for the job. What a pathetic example he is setting on how to react when a decision against you. It won't be the last time, that is for sure.

[SharpenRake]

5 hours ago, PotteringAround said:

To put things into context it was the last heat of an NJL match with the scores level at 15-15 going into the race.    Cayden Martin came down, with Callum Gill being disqualified as the cause of the stoppage.  

That meant that Glasgow won 19-17.   Had the decision gone the other way it would likely have finished with Redcar getting a draw.  

I would suggest that the guy who lost the plot and stormed the referees box was actually more angry about Redcar being denied a draw, rather than being concerned about a rider being mentally scarred by being disqualified as the cause of the stoppage of a comparatively meaningless race.

Just to be accurate it was the Ashfield Giants that won. 

[The Doctor...]

6 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Absolute rubbish based on nothing.

The excluded rider is a young kid and yougsters react differently to adults especially when the injuries looked serious as the other rider was down a long time leading to all sorts of rumours in the pits.

The team had nothing to win anyway and the manager concerned is not the slightest bit interested in winning or losing he and his club just want to get kids racing speedway bikes. Not everyone has a 'win at all costs' attitude.The concern was that an innocent rider was being blamed for something he was not responsible for. The manager wanted to keep the riders conscience clear so he wouldn't give up racing, what is wrong with that?

So the S.C.B. are right to fine him £100 and that is justifiable when an ASSAULT attracts a £65 fine???

Justify that for me please?

 

Have been out for the night so missed most of this - i'm confused tho, Why the urge from the manager to go steaming up to the ref with the meeting still live with the intention to get him to say it was a "racing incident" and to reassure the young rider to resume his career ? 

Unless this ref was Hans Nielsen, or some other vastly experienced rider who was pressing the buttons that night, what kind of logic is there for a team manager to seek belly rubbing from a ref of all people to encourage a young rider to carry on riding.  

And how naive can the guy be if he thinks the ref is going to go rogue on his reffing duties and watch some random video of the incident to possibly comment that it is a racing incident or not just to possibly keep the riders conscience clear.  If the chap is experienced and well respected within the sport as you say he is, he should know that his angle here was all wrong and approaching the ref was a bad decision.

Regarding the fine, i personally reckon the fella has got a double bubble here that makes up his £100 - maybe for unauthorised access to the ref without clerk of the course permission and then for whatever went on in the box itself. 

Also, i'm not sure whether him being a volunteer is relevant - doesn't a manager have to be registered with the scb anyway therefore making him fair game for the disciplinary process ? His wages are irrelevant really.

To finish, i'd love to see the specifics of the judgement here. Sounds like it could be a good read.

[JamesHarris]

There are always two sides to a story. Some very interesting comments here. I'm not going to comment on who's right or wrong but something must have taken place in the refs box for the fine to be dished out. As someone has already pointed out if the person feels that strongly they should appeal. 

What I will say is if the young rider in question was truly "traumatized" at being excluded then he is not in the correct frame of mind to be riding speedway bikes. I would suggest the young lad take up a more gentle hobby of flower arrangements or bird watching than racing a fast machine with no brakes.  

[Method]

4 hours ago, JamesHarris said:

What I will say is if the young rider in question was truly "traumatized" at being excluded then he is not in the correct frame of mind to be riding speedway bikes. I would suggest the young lad take up a more gentle hobby of flower arrangements or bird watching than racing a fast machine with no brakes.  

It is possible for a rider to have compassion and concern for others safety you know... in fact when im being squeezed by other riders, I like to know that they are not ruthless agressors ready to put me in the fence.

If I decide not to slam the door shut and put the guys front wheel into the boards, because I don't like the idea of causing him to crash with possible injuries - does that mean I am too soft and should pack up my kit and retire?

Is a rider with compassion and a thought process that regards other riders safety a danger because of this? Or the rider with no thought for the safety of others on the track? I know who I would rather be trading elbows with.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Method

[PotteringAround]

8 hours ago, The Doctor... said:

Have been out for the night so missed most of this - i'm confused tho, Why the urge from the manager to go steaming up to the ref with the meeting still live with the intention to get him to say it was a "racing incident" and to reassure the young rider to resume his career ? 

Unless this ref was Hans Nielsen, or some other vastly experienced rider who was pressing the buttons that night, what kind of logic is there for a team manager to seek belly rubbing from a ref of all people to encourage a young rider to carry on riding.  

 

Dead right.

Firstly if a rider is severely traumatised just for being (possibly wrongly) disqualified as the cause of the stoppage of a race, then he is definitely in the wrong sport.  If you're going to have a career, you're going to have to get used to be wrongly disqualified more than once in the future.

But it's normal that young kids can and do get upset after racing incidents.  They're young.  It's natural.   That's why it's essential to have responsible adults in the pits to put an arm round them, give them words of sympathy and explain how real life works.    However that person is very rarely a referee, (who has to remain a neutral authority figure).    The best person to console an upset rider is a team manager/coach/parent or better still an older more experienced rider.  (and to a young 125cc rider, that experienced older rider may even be a 17/18 year old).  The team manager in such a situation should be there in the pits consoling and reassuring his rider.   If he was insistent that the referee should talk to the rider (not a good idea) then he could have approached him after the meeting in the bar/car park (wherever) after things had cooled down.

It's clear that this story of being concerned for a rider's mental well-being is bull****.  

 

The only reason someone went instantly storming up to the referee's  box with so-called "video evidence" was because the match had been lost and he wanted the result changing there and then.   What a terrible example of bad sportsmanship to show to young riders.

It's a fundamental rule of any sport that referees/umpires/judges must be treated with respect.   Speedway is no different.  Without this you just have anarchy.

Regulation 3.2.8 is a serious one, covering acts of "a violent, threatening or abusive nature".   The referee in question is not a hothead.  He's pretty laid back.   Things must have been very heated for him to make a report.

Good on the S.C.B. for making a stand and showing that abuse of officials will not be tolerated.  A £100 fine is probably getting off light, but at least the S.C.B. didn't sweep it under the carpet and turn a blind eye.  Well done S.C.B.

 

 

 

[Parsy29]

Ive just seen all of this and didn't really want to get involved to be honest. Ive paid my fine but would just like to put the above record straight if you can hear me out.

I was and still am ( at present ) the Redcar Cubs team manager. The above incident as Pottering Around has indicated did occur while Redcar and Ashfield were racing.

The actions had nothing whatsoever to do with the result. We as a team have brought on local youngsters as much as possible and winning although great certainly would not get me to lose the plot as suggested.

The referee I will say has got the story completly wrong with the suggestion I stormed the box. Actually I knocked and waited until whoever was sitting next to the door gestured for me to enter. On entering I asked to speak to the referee and the same chap told me this was him. I then tried to show him the video which he then screamed at me to GET OUT. Whether he checked with his staff before he wrote his report I don't know but I knocked and waited and DID NOT storm any box. I  said that he had made a huge error and that my junior rider was being accused of something he had not done. I then turned around and left without swearing or any aggressive behaviour whatsoever. Yes I was angry but the only part that maybe I would have changed was closing the door a little harder than I should have.

I believe what I did to be wrong, I should not have done it a regret that in the heat of the moment looking after my young riders got in the way of my sensible decisions. 

I then heard nothing for about a month before I  received a email saying I had been fined and had to pay in 28 days. No one asked for any explanation or anything on my part. I did reply with my side of the story but apart from an appeal procedure this has not been acknowledged or anything.

I love my Speedway, Ive been a supporter for 40 years, a rider for the last 4 years and now a team manager spending thousands in the process. I don't get paid a penny for any of this and feel a stern warning as to future conduct would have been surfice of a punishment for a first offence. I never thretened anyone, I never even swore at anyone but that's £100 I've now had to pay.

Maybe at the end of the season it may just be better to abandon what is becoming more and more a sinking ship.

Best Regards

Gavin  

Edited October 9, 2019 by Parsy29

[False dawn]

A young rider being upset by a crash he is involved in. Not a case to say he should "toughen up" but any competitor has to face that possibility, many times.

A young rider being excluded (sorry disqualified) unfairly. Get used to it, it won't be the last time.

An official being fined for some unspecified offence. Not acceptable. A statement stating the offence, in detail, the reasoning, the regulations that were contravened and the logic behind the punishment are requiremed of any governing body. 

We saw recently an appeal by Craig Cook upheld and the punishment revised without any satisfactory explanation.

The SCB adopt an independent oversight of the sport (unlike the BSPA). They rule, because it's necessary to have such a body, but they're not a dictatorship. They have a rule book by which we all abide, fans included. It is published and open to scrutiny. By the same token, the application of those rules, must be open, transparent and consistent. We, of the social media community, are quite capable of making up all sorts of conspiracies in the absence of irrefutable facts. Mr (or Mrs) SCB, sit in splendid isolation and hand down your pronouncements, without explanation, at your peril. 

[racers and royals]

I think some of us have a really good idea of who "fortythirtyeight" is  

Edited October 9, 2019 by racers and royals

[mikebv]

7 hours ago, JamesHarris said:

There are always two sides to a story. Some very interesting comments here. I'm not going to comment on who's right or wrong but something must have taken place in the refs box for the fine to be dished out. As someone has already pointed out if the person feels that strongly they should appeal. 

What I will say is if the young rider in question was truly "traumatized" at being excluded then he is not in the correct frame of mind to be riding speedway bikes. I would suggest the young lad take up a more gentle hobby of flower arrangements or bird watching than racing a fast machine with no brakes.  

Having done countless disciplinary hearings I have always found that there are usually THREE sides to every story...

With my job trying to find the third one...

[PotteringAround]

4 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

I think some of us have a really good idea of who "fortythiryeight" is  

Do tell  

[False dawn]

15 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

I think some of us have a really good idea of who "fortythiryeight" is  

I guess he's "Happy"

[JamesHarris]

1 hour ago, Parsy29 said:

Ive just seen all of this and didn't really want to get involved to be honest. Ive paid my fine but would just like to put the above record straight if you can hear me out.

I was and still am ( at present ) the Redcar Cubs team manager. The above incident as Pottering Around has indicated did occur while Redcar and Ashfield were racing.

The actions had nothing whatsoever to do with the result. We as a team have brought on local youngsters as much as possible and winning although great certainly would not get me to lose the plot as suggested.

The referee I will say has got the story completly wrong with the suggestion I stormed the box. Actually I knocked and waited until whoever was sitting next to the door gestured for me to enter. On entering I asked to speak to the referee and the same chap told me this was him. I then tried to show him the video which he then screamed at me to GET OUT. Whether he checked with his staff before he wrote his report I don't know but I knocked and waited and DID NOT storm any box. I  said that he had made a huge error and that my junior rider was being accused of something he had not done. I then turned around and left without swearing or any aggressive behaviour whatsoever. Yes I was angry but the only part that maybe I would have changed was closing the door a little harder than I should have.

I believe what I did to be wrong, I should not have done it a regret that in the heat of the moment looking after my young riders got in the way of my sensible decisions. 

I then heard nothing for about a month before I  received a email saying I had been fined and had to pay in 28 days. No one asked for any explanation or anything on my part. I did reply with my side of the story but apart from an appeal procedure this has not been acknowledged or anything.

I love my Speedway, Ive been a supporter for 40 years, a rider for the last 4 years and now a team manager spending thousands in the process. I don't get paid a penny for any of this and feel a stern warning as to future conduct would have been surfice of a punishment for a first offence. I never thretened anyone, I never even swore at anyone but that's £100 I've now had to pay.

Maybe at the end of the season it may just be better to abandon what is becoming more and more a sinking ship.

Best Regards

Gavin  

Fair play mate. You probably should have appealed though. I really do commend your commitment and enthusiasm for bringing on young riders and if that is what you want to do then I take my hat off to you. But if you are putting so much money into doing it can I just say this based on personal experience. Not all but some of these riders are spoilt brats who will have a rant/strop at their dads in the pits even though it is their dads who are paying for their very expensive hobby. Some riders will get bored and quit when they get to 16 and start partying and chasing girls. Some will be more talented and stick with it. Even more so if their ego's are boosted by arse licker's and groupies. Will the clubs (promoters) thank you for your efforts in providing their next asset? Will they at least token compensate you something for all the time and effort you have put into their new asset? Will they f**k. Do you even think the riders will give a damn for you when they have reached the heights of the Elite League (sorry Premiership)? Probably 2 or 3 will stay mates and appreciate the time you put aside for them. Most will simply treat you as a stepping stone and some enthusiastic mug who did something along the line. 

[foamfence]

37 minutes ago, JamesHarris said:

Fair play mate. You probably should have appealed though. I really do commend your commitment and enthusiasm for bringing on young riders and if that is what you want to do then I take my hat off to you. But if you are putting so much money into doing it can I just say this based on personal experience. Not all but some of these riders are spoilt brats who will have a rant/strop at their dads in the pits even though it is their dads who are paying for their very expensive hobby. Some riders will get bored and quit when they get to 16 and start partying and chasing girls. Some will be more talented and stick with it. Even more so if their ego's are boosted by arse licker's and groupies. Will the clubs (promoters) thank you for your efforts in providing their next asset? Will they at least token compensate you something for all the time and effort you have put into their new asset? Will they f**k. Do you even think the riders will give a damn for you when they have reached the heights of the Elite League (sorry Premiership)? Probably 2 or 3 will stay mates and appreciate the time you put aside for them. Most will simply treat you as a stepping stone and some enthusiastic mug who did something along the line. 

You obviously don't know the Redcar promotion.

[geoff100]

4 hours ago, Parsy29 said:

Ive just seen all of this and didn't really want to get involved to be honest. Ive paid my fine but would just like to put the above record straight if you can hear me out.

I was and still am ( at present ) the Redcar Cubs team manager. The above incident as Pottering Around has indicated did occur while Redcar and Ashfield were racing.

The actions had nothing whatsoever to do with the result. We as a team have brought on local youngsters as much as possible and winning although great certainly would not get me to lose the plot as suggested.

The referee I will say has got the story completly wrong with the suggestion I stormed the box. Actually I knocked and waited until whoever was sitting next to the door gestured for me to enter. On entering I asked to speak to the referee and the same chap told me this was him. I then tried to show him the video which he then screamed at me to GET OUT. Whether he checked with his staff before he wrote his report I don't know but I knocked and waited and DID NOT storm any box. I  said that he had made a huge error and that my junior rider was being accused of something he had not done. I then turned around and left without swearing or any aggressive behaviour whatsoever. Yes I was angry but the only part that maybe I would have changed was closing the door a little harder than I should have.

I believe what I did to be wrong, I should not have done it a regret that in the heat of the moment looking after my young riders got in the way of my sensible decisions. 

I then heard nothing for about a month before I  received a email saying I had been fined and had to pay in 28 days. No one asked for any explanation or anything on my part. I did reply with my side of the story but apart from an appeal procedure this has not been acknowledged or anything.

I love my Speedway, Ive been a supporter for 40 years, a rider for the last 4 years and now a team manager spending thousands in the process. I don't get paid a penny for any of this and feel a stern warning as to future conduct would have been surfice of a punishment for a first offence. I never thretened anyone, I never even swore at anyone but that's £100 I've now had to pay.

Maybe at the end of the season it may just be better to abandon what is becoming more and more a sinking ship.

Best Regards

Gavin  

Who was the ref a local with a scotch accent ??

[foamfence]

2 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

Who was the ref a local with a scotch accent ??

Do you mean, had he been drinking?

[geoff100]

Just now, foamfence said:

Do you mean, had he been drinking?

No just wondered which clown it was 

[racers and royals]

4 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

No just wondered which clown it was 

Michael Breckon