Kent v belle vue play off semi 2nd leg tonight

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, Rob B said:

The referee refused to come down to do a track inspection despite being asked couple of times. A track where times were 10-12 seconds slower then the track record is not good, there were multiple fallers, if it had been a more senior meeting it never would have carried on or started, these younger riders were told to get on with it.

Does anyone  (the Clerk of the Course?) have to keep an official log of these requests does anyone know?

I am sure the EHO would be very interested in what dialogue took place previously should anything serious (or heaven forbid) tragic happen to a rider..

In my business I have to show plenty of due diligence when it comes to the welfare of staff and customers so I would imagine in a sport as dangerous as Speedway, this due diligence must be several times my requirements of running a store..

Who risks prosecution should they be found to be negligent in their undertakings?

Today litigious society must focus the mind I would think on not taking any undue risks with the riders?

Getting that fine line correct between a meeting being on, or not, must be a very difficult one on occasions for all concerned..

Damned if you do and damned if you don't I would imagine from a safety perspective, but I would think the entertainment factor also needs to have a very high priority when deciding whether to run or not..

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by mikebv

[Vic Meldrew]

I was at the meeting last night - unlike some of the posters on this topic.

The riders from both teams need to be thanked for riding in such conditions. The Kent riders were definitely up for the meeting and sadly with the exception of Palin and Flint the Belle Vue riders were not really interested in competing. Overtaking was possible - ask Dan Gilkes and Anders Rowe. After all, the conditions were the same for both teams.

The heat times, which are really irrelevant, were only 5 or 6 seconds slower than the previous meeting at Central Park - 60/61s  average for the Kent Laurels and 65/66s average for last night.

The message here is to the BSPA - DO NOT schedule play off matches (across all three leagues) for this late in the season.

[blueherb777]

56 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

A therein lies one of the great differences between current speedway followers. Some are happy to watch a meeting whatever the circumstances & conditions whereas others are looking for more than riders going round an oval(ish) track for their hard earner pounds. I take nothing away from the riders last night (although lets face it many have been well backed this season and certainly want to keep their respective clubs sweet) they put on a meeting that i agree would not have started at higher levels but my personal choice was to stay away as i didn't see it as an attractive meeting and at £15 riders slipping about in puddles and a constant threat of an early call off was never going to get me anywhere near the track.

Far too sensible post. 

Could not agree more.

[cityrebel]

1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

A therein lies one of the great differences between current speedway followers. Some are happy to watch a meeting whatever the circumstances & conditions whereas others are looking for more than riders going round an oval(ish) track for their hard earner pounds. I take nothing away from the riders last night (although lets face it many have been well backed this season and certainly want to keep their respective clubs sweet) they put on a meeting that i agree would not have started at higher levels but my personal choice was to stay away as i didn't see it as an attractive meeting and at £15 riders slipping about in puddles and a constant threat of an early call off was never going to get me anywhere near the track.

For speedway starved fans in the south east, beggars can't be choosers. I will always gamble at a local track, but as for travelling long distances, i couldn't entertain it. 

[ruckerroo]

45 minutes ago, Vic Meldrew said:

I was at the meeting last night - unlike some of the posters on this topic.

The riders from both teams need to be thanked for riding in such conditions. The Kent riders were definitely up for the meeting and sadly with the exception of Palin and Flint the Belle Vue riders were not really interested in competing. Overtaking was possible - ask Dan Gilkes and Anders Rowe. After all, the conditions were the same for both teams.

The heat times, which are really irrelevant, were only 5 or 6 seconds slower than the previous meeting at Central Park - 60/61s  average for the Kent Laurels and 65/66s average for last night.

The message here is to the BSPA - DO NOT schedule play off matches (across all three leagues) for this late in the season.

Heat times are irrelevant, what cobblers!!

[flipper11]

11 minutes ago, ruckerroo said:

Heat times are irrelevant, what cobblers!!

In the NL match at B Vue at the beginning of August the heat times were up to 6 seconds slower than a normal match but the racing was great, I'm sure the B Vue supporters that went would agree with me on that.

[Aces51]

The Colts lost, no complaints from me, the referee in his wisdom decided it was safe to continue and so that's it, the result stands and well done to Kent on getting to the final.

However, if the video of heat 12 is typical of the conditions, watch it to the end and see the shots of the rain falling, then the conditions were not, as some claim, the same as the first leg, they were much worse. Riders in the first leg could race, not just ride round and the times were comparable to most of the NL meetings at the NSS not 4 to 7 seconds slower. The video clearly shows riders riding comparatively slowly and struggling to get round. As they say, it's speedway but not as we know it.

 

 

 

[cityrebel]

Plenty of big meetings over the years have been run in wet weather, it's the nature of the sport. The conditions at Eastbourne a couple of weeks ago were far worse. At this time of the year with dates running out, meetings are going to be run at any opportunity. It's a nightmare senario for the home promoter, wether to stick or twist. 

[flipper11]

4 hours ago, Aces51 said:

The Colts lost, no complaints from me, the referee in his wisdom decided it was safe to continue and so that's it, the result stands and well done to Kent on getting to the final.

However, if the video of heat 12 is typical of the conditions, watch it to the end and see the shots of the rain falling, then the conditions were not, as some claim, the same as the first leg, they were much worse. Riders in the first leg could race, not just ride round and the times were comparable to most of the NL meetings at the NSS not 4 to 7 seconds slower. The video clearly shows riders riding comparatively slowly and struggling to get round. As they say, it's speedway but not as we know it.

 

 

 

I think you must be comparing the times at NSS v Kent with the times the week before v Mild which was also a wet meeting. If you compare with a normal night the times after heat 1 V Kent were around 3-4 seconds slower than normal. As for racing there was only 1 line about 3rd way out & any rider venturing beyond that went backwards, so no not much racing. No complaints from me or Kent.

As for Monday the times were around the same as NSS 3-4 seconds slower than normal up to heat 8 when what was occasional fine rain turned heavier, I'm sure with heat 10 in mind the ref pushed the meeting on quickly.   By heat 10 the tie was over for B Vue  Kent were to far ahead, but fair play to all the riders they carried on the meeting to heat 15 in really bad conditions which everyone at the stadium was very appreciative of.   So no, heat 12 in that video was not typical of the whole meeting.

[secsy1]

Being not a Kent or a Belle Vue  supporter I look at the reality of the meeting..

1. I was there

2. Started no problem.

3. Conditions deteriated.

4. All okay with that.

5. Referee asked to look at track, answer no its okay.

6. Referee asked to look at visibility, looks okay from here!

7. Take a look again, WHY.

I have no interest in the result which happened, BUT

If any rider from either team had occasion to have injury the referee was culpable due to negligence

 

[Aces51]

37 minutes ago, flipper11 said:

I think you must be comparing the times at NSS v Kent with the times the week before v Mild which was also a wet meeting. If you compare with a normal night the times after heat 1 V Kent were around 3-4 seconds slower than normal. As for racing there was only 1 line about 3rd way out & any rider venturing beyond that went backwards, so no not much racing. No complaints from me or Kent.

As for Monday the times were around the same as NSS 3-4 seconds slower than normal up to heat 8 when what was occasional fine rain turned heavier, I'm sure with heat 10 in mind the ref pushed the meeting on quickly.   By heat 10 the tie was over for B Vue  Kent were to far ahead, but fair play to all the riders they carried on the meeting to heat 15 in really bad conditions which everyone at the stadium was very appreciative of.   So no, heat 12 in that video was not typical of the whole meeting.

The times for the first leg of the play offs at the NSS were generally 63 to 65 seconds. The fastest times for Colts meeting this year were generally 61 to 63 seconds, most meetings fall between those times. At best or worst, depending on how you view it, the times for the Kent meeting were a couple of seconds slower than the fastest times.

The Kent meeting at the NSS didn't produce good racing but the track was nowhere near as wet as the video of heat 12 at Kent shows and the heavy rain seen in that video means that the track could only have been even wetter for the subsequent heats.

The times for the second leg were generally in the 62 to 65 seconds range against the typical 57 to 59 seconds Typically about 5 seconds slower, which in speedway terms is a huge difference and which can only be related to the state of the track.

My point is that speedway does itself no favours running important meetings in those type of conditions. Teams hope and expect to attract casual and new supporters to play off meetings. Witnessing races like heat 12 is unlikely to encourage them to come back. Teams used to race over 30 home meetings in a season but somehow can't now manage to organise less than half that number and get them into a season that should aim to have everything done and dusted by the end of September. October could then be held in reserve just in case of bad weather in September.

As I said previously, none of this takes anything away from Kent. Whatever the conditions and whatever the rights and wrongs of running the meeting, that was down to the referee. Both teams got on with it, because there was no other choice and Kent deserved their victory.