Paulco Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, jenga said: so can you tell me how the crowd has grown from the time you had Joe Screen , Travas Mcgowan etc to the modern day Glasgow tigers 7 ? Cant put an exact figure on it , but most meetings ( outwith the Tuesday night ones we were forced to do ) I would say possibly nearly double 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 would that be around 1500 to 2000 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 9 hours ago, Paulco said: Talking out your arse again Jenga old boy . Of course having a big hitter at number 1 pulls in more bodies to the track . Masters , Cook , King etc , our league would be a far poorer place without that calibre of rider Honestly Paulco I don't think he is (anymore than usual anyway) as when Cookie was at Workington; pre-season the promotion budgeted that he would bring in an additional 60 bodies through the gate (not many really) with him being a local lad, average crowds did not increase whatsoever. Then Alan Hedley at Newcastle brought in Danny King and then boy wonder Robert Lambert for two seasons and neither of these added any additional bodies through the door and to be fair to Alan he spent a lot of cash on bringing these guys in and he even said; he just didn't know what else he could do as a promoter as there weren't many better second tier riders around than Lambert and he (Lambert) added nothing to the crowd numbers at all. So it doesn't go to say that bringing in a big hitting number 1 will bring in the crowds as both Newcastle and Worky can prove, however I would concede that they may retain the people (or the crowd) you currently have and mitigate against some fan drift. Again 2018 Workington did not have a recognised "big hitting" Number 1 but won the lot however even having a super successful team it didn't increase the crowd numbers in that great a level so it is a bit of a conundrum to say the least... Finally Jenga may have a point when he says (in his own way) a big hitting number 1 probably doesn't bring in new fans it just brings back the fair weather fans who drifted away from the sport and their support can only be seen as temporary I would suggest; but fair play to the Monarchs; Sam and Josh are entertaining and quality riders and their promotion are trying to do something to reduce fan drift by bringing in quality riders, however bringing in these big hitters does not guarantee success and as Workington can attest a successful team does not guarantee new fans coming through the door either... However I am looking forward to watching these riders next season as a committed fan like yourself (and others on here) and thank the Monarchs Promotion for what they are trying to do as I appreciate watching good riders who can do something a bit special on the track however I feel we are becoming part of a dying breed... Regards THJ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Ok how much did the Workington crowd dwindle once Stoney hung up his kevlars ? I know from my own eyes that the crowds at Glasgow were healthier watching number ones like Parker and Cook than they were with Kevin Wolbert impersonating a number 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Mr denhams first night crowd in 2008? Was reported as 2500, 2000 of which had gone when laura took over but her first crowd was reported as 1100 if only they could have been retained.Have been glasgow 3 times this season and being honest thought the crowds were low compared to 2 seasons ago . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, geoff100 said: Mr denhams first night crowd in 2008? Was reported as 2500, 2000 of which had gone when laura took over but her first crowd was reported as 1100 if only they could have been retained.Have been glasgow 3 times this season and being honest thought the crowds were low compared to 2 seasons ago . Been to Glasgow a few times this year,Friday crowds were good IMO.Tue v Sheffield wasn’t great though .Definately think crowds are up on 2 seasons ago IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Tuesdays were always going to be poor crowds , that had nothing to do with who was riding at number 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paulco said: Ok how much did the Workington crowd dwindle once Stoney hung up his kevlars ? I know from my own eyes that the crowds at Glasgow were healthier watching number ones like Parker and Cook than they were with Kevin Wolbert impersonating a number 1 I did say it was a conundrum and yep I don't disagree it is just that having a big hitting Number 1 isn't a factor of improved crowds IMO; no Newby to Speedway will know who Craig Cook Robert Lambert or Sam Masters is or any of the others mentioned for that matter, and yes losing a Stoney did (I would suggest) have an impact but that is only from the club faithful and did not have an impact on attracting new fans and I think in a roundabout way that's what Jenga was getting at and Geoff100 puts in a nutshell 1800/2000 fans lost to Workington who ended up with 400/600 regulars which wasn't enough to sustain the team at the level they were at and maybe only Stoney himself could have brought back the lost fans in any numbers. Here's a daft idea maybe they should have brought Stoney in as team manager and there may have been a numbers bounce on the back of that as he is a character and showman from the old school, however its all pie in the sky now so we will never know. All clubs and promotions have to do what is best for them to attract numbers through the turnstiles and as stated in Workington's last year they didn't have a big hitting No 1 but even having a very successful side failed to attract the additional 2/300 regulars it needed to survive. It all comes down to what you can afford (or what you are prepared to lose or write off) and without the cash its a difficult balancing act getting the best team you can on the track; to be competitive; and provide entertainment to keep the public happy; and on a budget; and its a vicious circle and to come back to the point Jenga made paying large wages at this level for some clubs is flirting with disaster and he knows better than most from when his old man had a go at promoting. But; and here is the rub; if you could attract New Fans through the door rather than lapsed ones it wouldn't matter to them who the No 1 was as they won't be aware of who the top riders are to start with due to them being new to the sport... Regards THJ Edited October 10, 2019 by TotallyHonestJohn Spelling, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 31 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: I did say it was a conundrum and yep I don't disagree it is just that having a big hitting Number 1 isn't a factor of improved crowds IMO; no Newby to Speedway will know who Craig Cook Robert Lambert or Sam Masters is or any of the others mentioned for that matter, and yes losing a Stoney did (I would suggest) have an impact but that is only from the club faithful and did not have an impact on attracting new fans and I think in a roundabout way that's what Jenga was getting at and Geoff100 puts in a nutshell 1800/2000 fans lost to Workington who ended up with 400/600 regulars which wasn't enough to sustain the team at the level they were at and maybe only Stoney himself could have brought back the lost fans in any numbers. Here's a daft idea maybe they should have brought Stoney in as team manager and there may have been a numbers bounce on the back of that as he is a character and showman from the old school, however its all pie in the sky now so we will never know. All clubs and promotions have to do what is best for them to attract numbers through the turnstiles and as stated in Workington's last year they didn't have a big hitting No 1 but even having a very successful side failed to attract the additional 2/300 regulars it needed to survive. It all comes down to what you can afford (or what you are prepared to lose or write off) and without the cash its a difficult balancing act getting the best team you can on the track; to be competitive; and provide entertainment to keep the public happy; and on a budget; and its a vicious circle and to come back to the point Jenga made paying large wages at this level for some clubs is flirting with disaster and he knows better than most from when his old man had a go at promoting. But; and here is the rub; if you could attract New Fans through the door rather than lapsed ones it wouldn't matter to them who the No 1 was as they won't be aware of who the top riders are to start with due to them being new to the sport... Regards THJ The bottom line is that the sport in its present form is not attracting and keeping new fans in numbers to make it sustainable on the wages they are paying to the Top Riders at Championship Level without Major Sponsorship,which seems hard to attract.Slippery Slope IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlasVegas Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 No one has even identified creating that sense of value for money / good entertainment in attracting better crowds. Your Stoney / Masters / Cook types are the 'superstar' figures within a side, they grab the headlines and the main attention for winning so often, and they too often provide some of the greater level of excitement by, occasionally at least, having to work their way to the front (Glasgow have used some of Cook's exploits this season for marketing purposes on social media). The critical point I'm looking to make though is to stand a much improved chance of attracting new/lapsed fans to pay a visit and return, the overall 'production' has to be up to scratch - and that's a combination of facilities, track prep and the peripheral entertainment (music, atmosphere created, communication, events etc.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Paulco said: Ok how much did the Workington crowd dwindle once Stoney hung up his kevlars ? I know from my own eyes that the crowds at Glasgow were healthier watching number ones like Parker and Cook than they were with Kevin Wolbert impersonating a number 1 the workington fans were dwindling way before stoney hung up his kevlars . look at some of the videos of workington with stoney in and see even then the crowds were drifting . so how many attend Glasgow nowadays . a rough figure will do . just like to ask the loyal Glasgow fans , was it the big hitters/star names or the lovely red and white tins of paint that were splashed about , plus a few alterations to certain parts of the track/pit etc that pulled in the extra drift away fans `? Edited October 10, 2019 by jenga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, GlasVegas said: No one has even identified creating that sense of value for money / good entertainment in attracting better crowds. Your Stoney / Masters / Cook types are the 'superstar' figures within a side, they grab the headlines and the main attention for winning so often, and they too often provide some of the greater level of excitement by, occasionally at least, having to work their way to the front (Glasgow have used some of Cook's exploits this season for marketing purposes on social media). The critical point I'm looking to make though is to stand a much improved chance of attracting new/lapsed fans to pay a visit and return, the overall 'production' has to be up to scratch - and that's a combination of facilities, track prep and the peripheral entertainment (music, atmosphere created, communication, events etc.) Agreed and it comes back to what Jenga said in a roundabout way that you don't need to pay (or shouldn't be paying) the Superstars top notch rates in the second tier of this sport and again you are spot on in the whole of the second paragraph but something needs to give as many clubs cant afford to do all of the good ideas that you suggest and pay out for "Top Marque" riders as well... Big dilemma... Regards THJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Agreed and it comes back to what Jenga said in a roundabout way that you don't need to pay (or shouldn't be paying) the Superstars top notch rates in the second tier of this sport and again you are spot on in the whole of the second paragraph but something needs to give as many clubs cant afford to do all of the good ideas that you suggest and pay out for "Top Marque" riders as well... Big dilemma... Regards THJ Maybe some of the staff/volunteers could chip a bit more in, afterall its their clubs that might not be around much longer. So if things do go t!ts up, they might not have any more unpaid work to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 unpaid work , you cant beat it ! its never bothered me ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothers Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 54 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said: Maybe some of the staff/volunteers could chip a bit more in, afterall its their clubs that might not be around much longer. So if things do go t!ts up, they might not have any more unpaid work to do. Do hope you meant this sarcastically - although the lack of a smiley face or emoji (or whatever they're called) calls this into question. Probably 50% of today's speedway clubs are only running because of the work currently being done by unpaid volunteers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Boothers said: Do hope you meant this sarcastically - although the lack of a smiley face or emoji (or whatever they're called) calls this into question. Probably 50% of today's speedway clubs are only running because of the work currently being done by unpaid volunteers. Funnily enough, it wasn't meant to be sarcastic, but agree the last sentence was a bit funny. I did think after I had posted it, it might go down like a lead balloon. I get what you say regarding, tracks would not run without the help. It would be a tricky area to cover, but am pretty sure that some would and are in a position to do so, and maybe put a little bit back in. I know that some volunteers put an awful amount of effort in to help their clubs, but on the other hand, there will be some that only volunteer, to accept the reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 hours ago, jenga said: the workington fans were dwindling way before stoney hung up his kevlars . look at some of the videos of workington with stoney in and see even then the crowds were drifting . so how many attend Glasgow nowadays . a rough figure will do . just like to ask the loyal Glasgow fans , was it the big hitters/star names or the lovely red and white tins of paint that were splashed about , plus a few alterations to certain parts of the track/pit etc that pulled in the extra drift away fans `? The racing at Ashfield this season has been excellent on the meetings I have attended.Well worth attending and the stadium and facilities are 1st class.Attendances look decent. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeyin Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 The increase in social media use from Glasgow have brought in a lot of new fans from the ice hockey and they have stayed, as well as returning fans. One new fan asked who Cook was, in one of his last to first races and commented that he was worth coming back to watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cj69 Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Speaking to a couple well informed people placed high in the Edin ranks signing Masters had no effect on attendance. One meeting, against scunthorpe I think he said, only brought in a 350 crowd. What it may have done is increase the belief factor that we could reach the play offs. Always an outside bet but chances did improve when Masters arrived. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Cj69 said: Speaking to a couple well informed people placed high in the Edin ranks signing Masters had no effect on attendance. One meeting, against scunthorpe I think he said, only brought in a 350 crowd. What it may have done is increase the belief factor that we could reach the play offs. Always an outside bet but chances did improve when Masters arrived. Think if it wasn’t for the enthusiasm of the Promotion and Fans Trust,Monarchs would be long gone.Crowds have dwindled the last few seasons.Credit to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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