Eastbourne 2020

[lewy]

1 hour ago, orion said:

Only if its for the better 

It couldn't be any worse!

[Halifaxtiger]

2 hours ago, orion said:

The subject is  Eastbourne .. Eastbourne had bigger crowds at a early stage so there plight the subject we are talking about has little to do with covid  just rank bad mangerment .. To much is made of what is going on in the iow .. its a captive audience in Holiday season .Fair play to the people who run it because they have maximize it but the chances of it  working elsewhere are zero 

I'd say the subject - as I initially put t is the 'stupid BSPL decision to run before Covid restrictions were removed and before the vaccination programme got into its stride hamstrung Eastbourne (and indeed all the other clubs)'. If indeed Eastbourne had bigger gates at the outset,  based upon the likes of Birmingham, Wolverhampton & Newcastle they have seriously bucked a trend. 

Too much is being made of the fact that a speedway team has nigh on doubled its gates ?? Really ?? I would have thought any speedway fan would have been giving that more consideration than any other topic or subject brought up by the sport given its current plight.

Two points you have missed and, first,  one you deliberately ignored. Isle of Wight is no more a holiday destination in holiday season than Eastbourne is. For every person 'captive' on the Island, there is one who doesn't have to pay £50 to a ferry company to get there. 

I don't doubt that Eastbourne's problems are substantially about financial mismanagement, but why have the formers gates gone up spectacularly while the latters have stagnated or decreased given that their circumstances are almost exactly the same ??

Isle of Wight has always been a holiday destination in holiday season, so why is the speedway getting far, far bigger attendances now than it did when riding NL meetings ?? Covid doesn't account totally for that. 

'Zero' chances of it working elsewhere. What is certainly true is there are a number of people on this forum who gave it 'zero' chance of working at Isle of Wight - after all, all they were offering was a 'circus' or' fairground', composed of small children, has beens, grasstrack riders, second halfers and even females. Even the Warriors management knew they were taking a major gamble but the fact remains is that while the rest of speedway has had the begging bowl out, been pleading fans to turn up and running up losses, they have been a huge success. I see no reason why such an approach wouldn't work at Eastbourne or possibly Poole, King's Lynn., Kent, Mildenhall, Berwick and Plymouth, all of which are in holiday areas.

Truth is, you - and you are not alone - are terrified that other tracks might copy it, and only one thing terrifies you more................that it might just work. 

The sport has to embrace change and doing nothing is not an option. If a track massively increases its gates by adapting its race night programme that must be given very serious consideration.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Halifaxtiger

[orion]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

Stock Cars seem to work at Eastbourne...

A proper "circus act"...

Have you seen the bangers? 

The same track that is in exactly the same place, ie still miles away from the town, when either Stock Car racing or Speedway is there.. 

Yet one sport pays for itself and one obviously doesnt..

You can only therefore presume it's down to what's on offer, rather than how far from town it is..

Maybe that IOW "Circus" could work too given Eastbourne through this summer in particular will be packed with holiday makers..?

I suppose sadly we will never know...

 

What are the stock car crowds like at the iow during the summer holidays ?  The bottom line is  we have had  30 pages about how speedway is ran  as the cause of Eastbourne problems but no one knows for sure what has happened . For all we know someone could have there hand in the cookie jar .

Lets up see the iow run the flying  circus from march to oct next year to see what the results are .

 

[Piotr Pyszny]

2 hours ago, Hackett said:

Have no interest in "Banger Racing" but Bob + Martin both made it clear that bangers generated far more revenue than speedway ever did. 

It is or was the same everywhere. In recent decades, stock cars and bangers have tended to pull in much bigger crowds than speedway. At Belle Vue, at Bradford, at Coventry, at Stoke, at Wimbledon etc. They did at Birmingham Wheels, long after the speedway finished. In my very limited experience, not at Sheffield. Don't know about Scunthorpe.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Piotr Pyszny

[Sings4Speedway]

18 minutes ago, orion said:

What are the stock car crowds like at the iow during the summer holidays ?  The bottom line is  we have had  30 pages about how speedway is ran  as the cause of Eastbourne problems but no one knows for sure what has happened . For all we know someone could have there hand in the cookie jar .

Lets up see the iow run the flying  circus from march to oct next year to see what the results are .

 

Brutal as this may sound and i don't want to upset any Eastbourne fans here but the IOW's act of curiosities, oddities and entertainers (Circus) are highly unlikely to run March til October and nor should they as that won't produce the best crowds, best energy or best value for their crowds BUT there looks a strong likelihood that they will be running.....how many other clubs can say that with such certainty? 

“No one ever made a difference by being like everyone else.”
― P.T. Barnum

[Piotr Pyszny]

3 hours ago, barrybishop said:

And the truth of this is.... we have based our "circus" on my experience travelling to speedway in the US, Canada, across Europe where with the exception of Poland it is run very successfully... I know its not for everyone but there is no reason AT ALL, why the "Circus" cannot be run at the same time as a league meeting...  We do not proclaim to be the font of all knowledge, please remember we were in our view bullied out of the BSPL  and then took the bull by the horns and sad no, no this isnt right and decided we will now run speedway how we wanted to run it 6 years ago but were stopped. There is no one to stop it now, and it will, without doubt, grow. 

Enjoy your speedway wherever you view it and keep supporting your clubs.

Can you tell us what crowds you are getting, Barry? (I appreciate, unlike in many other sports, speedway's attendances have often been a closely guarded secret)

Out of interest, what have the attendances been at Eastbourne this season?

[mikebv]

2 minutes ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

It is or was the same everywhere. In recent decades, stock cars and bangers have tended to pull in much bigger crowds than speedway. At Belle Vue, at Bradford, at Coventry, at Stoke, at Wimbledon etc. They did at Birmingham Wheels, long after the speedway finished. In my very limited experience, not at Sheffield. Don't know about Scunthorpe.

At Kirky Lane the Stox ran circa 10 meetings per year and had crowds of between three and four thousand, depending on what Formula was running and if a BH or not..

The Aces ran around 18 to 20 meetings and had average crowds of (tops) 1200. 

And I might be being optimistic..

Hence over the year, the Stox ran to more people, with each meeting pretty much filling the stadium, thus, by definition, raising the profile of the sport positively to anyone new attending..  

Rather than going along and standing in a two thirds empty stadium, which can only lower the sports' profile and negatively impact it..

But to be fair, they did advertise their events via local Mcr newspapers, taking out a full page, (people who read papers are working class, middle aged and older, the Stox/Speedway followers' key demographic).

Maybe 10 to 12 Speedway meetings made up of various ages of rider, juniors, seniors etc, for a decent individual prize pot just maybe the way forward for some tracks? 

Different disciplines too rather than just 500cc Solos..

Properly advertised and marketed though and not just request that everyone "brings a friend"..

12 meetings would be two every month for six months which for me is ideal as weekly Speedway, four times a month, can hit a monthly salaries worth of disposal income hard, hence so many pick and choose when to attend..

The IOW model might not work for everyone but tracks that have access all hours and could run a "Festival Of Speed" type thing over a full afternoon and early evening, on a Saturday, Sunday or a BH Monday, may see it actually could work.. 

Even if they only give it a go once to test the water and advertise their "team" off the back of it..

And let's be brutally honest, even if it doesnt work, the current offering sadly doesnt seem to inspire too many to attend it, does it?

Doing nothing doesnt appear to be any kind of option that's for sure.. 

(Again)...

 

 

 

 

[ray c]

3 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

Under Covid restrictions, I read they could have 1,000 people in the stadium. That probably meant 900 fans with the other 100 or maybe a bit less being riders, mechanics staff etc. 

Poole was a sell-out (ie around 900). That was the top crowd. They dropped away thereafter and fell noticeably for Scunthorpe. Leicester didn't look very good and Plymouth was really no better than the NDL crowds of the past.

The drops were most noticeable drop came after the end of all restrictions..

 

i think you will find poole was less than 800 with covid restrictions

[M.D]

2 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

Under Covid restrictions, I read they could have 1,000 people in the stadium. That probably meant 900 fans with the other 100 or maybe a bit less being riders, mechanics staff etc. 

Poole was a sell-out (ie around 900). That was the top crowd. They dropped away thereafter and fell noticeably for Scunthorpe. Leicester didn't look very good and Plymouth was really no better than the NDL crowds of the past.

The drops were most noticeable drop came after the end of all restrictions..

 

During lockdown people didnt have many choices in the area to go to, since the country oppened up people are going to other attractions..

[Piotr Pyszny]

6 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Maybe 10 to 12 Speedway meetings made up of various ages of rider, juniors, seniors etc, for a decent individual prize pot just maybe the way forward for some tracks? 

Different disciplines too rather than just 500cc Solos..

That sounds like the sort of thing grasstrack has been doing. Although, in grasstrack's case ('you don't need a specialist grasstrack bike to do grasstrack'), the aim is to increase participation rather than spectator attendance.

Does 'solo' speedway in Australia still take place as part of a meeting featuring mixed motorsport disciplines? Maybe that's a route.

[SuperSpeed]

11 minutes ago, ray c said:

i think you will find poole was less than 800 with covid restrictions

According to Ian Jordan in a Q&A in June, the attendance for Poole was 1,000, Kent was 975 and Edinburgh was 800.

[Sings4Speedway]

8 minutes ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

That sounds like the sort of thing grasstrack has been doing. Although, in grasstrack's case ('you don't need a specialist grasstrack bike to do grasstrack'), the aim is to increase participation rather than spectator attendance.

Does 'solo' speedway in Australia still take place as part of a meeting featuring mixed motorsport disciplines? Maybe that's a route.

What makes the difference so stark between grasstrack and speedway is that despite both needing specialised kit that is largely useless elsewhere

a grasstrack rider will travel great distances to find a track of varied standards, ride it and pay for the privilege (with the potential of some prize money),

a speedway rider will travel great distances to find a track of varied standards, grumble about it at least 50% of the time, put in questionable effort and still expect to be paid handsomely for the privilege.....

[IronScorpion]

9 hours ago, Mike0310 said:

Hope they survive wouldn’t be surprised if Godfrey has a few lined up for Scunthorpe’s final push for the playoffs.

Maybe the promoters are fighting among themselves for what might be available as

quote "Hope they survive, wouldn't be surprised if a few promoters have a few lined up for their final push for playoff places".

anti Godfrey as usual.

[orion]

2 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I'd say the subject - as I initially put t is the 'stupid BSPL decision to run before Covid restrictions were removed and before the vaccination programme got into its stride hamstrung Eastbourne (and indeed all the other clubs)'. If indeed Eastbourne had bigger gates at the outset,  based upon the likes of Birmingham, Wolverhampton & Newcastle they have seriously bucked a trend. 

Too much is being made of the fact that a speedway team has nigh on doubled its gates ?? Really ?? I would have thought any speedway fan would have been giving that more consideration than any other topic or subject brought up by the sport given its current plight.

Two points you have missed and, first,  one you deliberately ignored. Isle of Wight is no more a holiday destination in holiday season than Eastbourne is. For every person 'captive' on the Island, there is one who doesn't have to pay £50 to a ferry company to get there. 

I don't doubt that Eastbourne's problems are substantially about financial mismanagement, but why have the formers gates gone up spectacularly while the latters have stagnated or decreased given that their circumstances are almost exactly the same ??

Isle of Wight has always been a holiday destination in holiday season, so why is the speedway getting far, far bigger attendances now than it did when riding NL meetings ?? Covid doesn't account totally for that. 

'Zero' chances of it working elsewhere. What is certainly true is there are a number of people on this forum who gave it 'zero' chance of working at Isle of Wight - after all, all they were offering was a 'circus' or' fairground', composed of small children, has beens, grasstrack riders, second halfers and even females. Even the Warriors management knew they were taking a major gamble but the fact remains is that while the rest of speedway has had the begging bowl out, been pleading fans to turn up and running up losses, they have been a huge success. I see no reason why such an approach wouldn't work at Eastbourne or possibly Poole, King's Lynn., Kent, Mildenhall, Berwick and Plymouth, all of which are in holiday areas.

Truth is, you - and you are not alone - are terrified that other tracks might copy it, and only one thing terrifies you more................that it might just work. 

The sport has to embrace change and doing nothing is not an option. If a track massively increases its gates by adapting its race night programme that must be given very serious consideration.

You already said that more people are on there hols in the uk after covid so your answer your own question ... Dont get me wrong Barry is good and what hes doing but the  likes you have got ott about it ...Easy to run a speedway club for 6 weeks in prime summer .

If Eastbourne close he can take  it on and run these events between march and oct ... then we shall what the crowds are like 

 

[Great Central]

1 hour ago, orion said:

What are the stock car crowds like at the iow during the summer holidays ?  The bottom line is  we have had  30 pages about how speedway is ran  as the cause of Eastbourne problems but no one knows for sure what has happened . For all we know someone could have there hand in the cookie jar .

Lets up see the iow run the flying  circus from march to oct next year to see what the results are .

 

You may see it as the flying circus but we don't. We provide an evening packed full of entertainment for all ages at a very reasonable price for all people to watch, but moving on to your last comment about running from March to October. When running in the NL, we never planned to run in March or October, as we recognised that those months would be difficult for us but we did try and stage a meeting every week.. This year we are running later than in previous years so we will see how things look after those meetings but we may spring a surprise later on. 

[ruckerroo]

Orion makes a good point. As ive said prior, when eastbournes 3 masked ok crowds occurred no bugger was allowed to do anything else and going out was a novelty. Im convinced someones been dipping in the kitty . Onto another point any promotion worth its salt has to arrange its 2 south coast derbys in high summer, whenever possible, thats your chance of a 2,000 crowd to swell the coffers , surely

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Brutal as this may sound and i don't want to upset any Eastbourne fans here but the IOW's act of curiosities, oddities and entertainers (Circus) are highly unlikely to run March til October and nor should they as that won't produce the best crowds, best energy or best value for their crowds BUT there looks a strong likelihood that they will be running.....how many other clubs can say that with such certainty? 

“No one ever made a difference by being like everyone else.”
― P.T. Barnum

"I believe you've been working as a ring master for PT Barnum, so I am banning you from working  for me next Monday"...

- Billy Smart....

[Hackett]

1 hour ago, Richard Weston said:

Under Covid restrictions, I read they could have 1,000 people in the stadium. That probably meant 900 fans with the other 100 or maybe a bit less being riders, mechanics staff etc. 

Poole was a sell-out (ie around 900). That was the top crowd. They dropped away thereafter and fell noticeably for Scunthorpe. Leicester didn't look very good and Plymouth was really no better than the NDL crowds of the past.

The drops were most noticeable drop came after the end of all restrictions..

 

Since the first meeting the promoters have said 1000 was the break even figure. Poole was a sell out and Kent with a good number of travelling fans was relatively close but the crowds have dropped steadily week to week. With the back-straight grandstand restricted in numbers the crowd is situated around the track but definitely noticeable that the numbers have dropped. The double headers, tapes delays, air-fence delays have not helped BUT as die-hard speedway fans are aware of these problems because they inevitably happen year on year.  As Ruckerroo stated I would of definitely been looking to load the local derbies during the summer months BUT this season has been a little different and taxing for all. In fairness Jordan + Kilby have been pretty transparent from meeting one stating that we need 1000 in the stadium to break even but who knows what was going on behind the scenes with the owners. Birmingham + Newcastle stated the difficulties they had faced - Eastbourne it would seem that we won't even get a "call to arms" like the Brummies + Diamonds - Just a couple of non committal statements - wait and see.  

 

 

 

 

[tyretrax]

11 hours ago, Mike0310 said:

Hope they survive wouldn’t be surprised if Godfrey has a few lined up for Scunthorpe’s final push for the playoffs.

If he has there should be mass protests and a petition to remove him, he's acting like a dictator.

[orion]

2 hours ago, Great Central said:

You may see it as the flying circus but we don't. We provide an evening packed full of entertainment for all ages at a very reasonable price for all people to watch, but moving on to your last comment about running from March to October. When running in the NL, we never planned to run in March or October, as we recognised that those months would be difficult for us but we did try and stage a meeting every week.. This year we are running later than in previous years so we will see how things look after those meetings but we may spring a surprise later on. 

I think you guys doing a great job dont get  me wrong  .so its nothing against you guys ...Just saying that i don't think  it will work elsewhere thou i could be wrong of course .. saying that Barry Bishops flying Circus has a  certain ring to it   Ps have you got Charlie Cairoli number ? 

Edited August 25, 2021 by orion