Belle Vue Aces 2020

[Speedtiger]

1 hour ago, ch958 said:

well they've obviously afforded it. My point, which you seemed to have missed, is that this is another thing which is not needed such as 4 valves, laydowns, etc - it is not adding anything to what is a sport which should be looking for savings, not more expense. 

This is not a dig against BV, who I've always admired.

I reiterate my question: what will it add to the customer experience at the speedway? 

Nothing! 

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Steve0 said:

The customer will for the first time be able to believe the times of races - no human reaction time - just accurate timing which has been around in other motor sports for years.  Additionally, you shouldn’t get the human error (the ref) when deciding the result of a close finish (or dead heat).

Well done to Belle Vue for trying to take a dying sport in the UK forward using technology!

And in the Speedway Star, Adrian Smith once again mentions how an independent body running the sport would be a major move forward for it.. 

Tsk. These people coming into Speedway wanting to drag it out of its self inflicted malaise and modernise it..

I don't know.....

Who do they think they are?...

 

[Daniel Smith]

1 hour ago, Diamondboy said:

But do those other riders not pass the same point? Genuinely don’t understand how it could be different. Would you be kind enough to explain it to me? No wind up, I’m genuinely puzzled.

Are you asking how 4th could possibly record a faster time than 1st?

Simply put, if you gate a second behind the others & finish half a second behind 1st but finish 4th your transponder will record a faster 4 laps than the rider who finishes 1st.

It also depends on where on the bike the responder is. 

Transponders activate buy passing a beam or cable that runs the width of the track so the start timing of the tapes going up is irrelevant. 

Hence, in speedway transponders can be more inaccurate than a guy with a stop watch. 

As another example, in formula one, they don't officially record the 1st lap time as it always records the guys at the back as being fastest as they get a better run up to the start finish line. 

[Ben91]

7 hours ago, mikebv said:

And in the Speedway Star, Adrian Smith once again mentions how an independent body running the sport would be a major move forward for it.. 

Tsk. These people coming into Speedway wanting to drag it out of its self inflicted malaise and modernise it..

I don't know.....

Who do they think they are?...

 

He’ll soon have that enthusiasm squeezed out of him no doubt... 

[Phil The Ace]

10 hours ago, geoff58 said:

you can't stand still in life technology moves on and we need this because we want to host a GP anything that improves our chances all good !! no  one likes VAR in Soccer but it's here to stay !! hawk eye in tennis & cricket !! you have to move on in life !!

 

 

 

FOOTBALL its FOOTBALL

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, Ben91 said:

He’ll soon have that enthusiasm squeezed out of him no doubt... 

I am sure it will soon feel like pushing water up a hill..

[Dave Jones]

11 minutes ago, mikebv said:

I am sure it will soon feel like pushing water up a hill..

Indeed , & if he starts making too much noise on the issue he won't be long for this sport I fear.

[Speedtiger]

14 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Indeed , & if he starts making too much noise on the issue he won't be long for this sport I fear.

Many have been and many have gone....!!!

Even a genius innovation like the transponder won’t save him. The green eyed monsters in Rugby will be seething with jealousy at this fantastic BV achievement!

[SteveLyric2]

7 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

Indeed , & if he starts making too much noise on the issue he won't be long for this sport I fear.

Bearing in mind the potential League Sponsorship deal is being negotiated by a business contact of Adrian Smith so I think his immediate future within the BSPL is assured.

[Diamondboy]

20 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Are you asking how 4th could possibly record a faster time than 1st?

Simply put, if you gate a second behind the others & finish half a second behind 1st but finish 4th your transponder will record a faster 4 laps than the rider who finishes 1st.

It also depends on where on the bike the responder is. 

Transponders activate buy passing a beam or cable that runs the width of the track so the start timing of the tapes going up is irrelevant. 

Hence, in speedway transponders can be more inaccurate than a guy with a stop watch. 

As another example, in formula one, they don't officially record the 1st lap time as it always records the guys at the back as being fastest as they get a better run up to the start finish line. 

I understand now thanks 

[hyderd]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:26 PM, Daniel Smith said:

Are you asking how 4th could possibly record a faster time than 1st?

Simply put, if you gate a second behind the others & finish half a second behind 1st but finish 4th your transponder will record a faster 4 laps than the rider who finishes 1st.

It also depends on where on the bike the responder is. 

Transponders activate buy passing a beam or cable that runs the width of the track so the start timing of the tapes going up is irrelevant. 

Hence, in speedway transponders can be more inaccurate than a guy with a stop watch. 

As another example, in formula one, they don't officially record the 1st lap time as it always records the guys at the back as being fastest as they get a better run up to the start finish line. 

Not sure if this example is correct, I have never seen a GP where the cars at the rear of the start,are closer to the cars at the front of the grid, surely if they are further apart at the end of the 1st lap, then their lap time must be slower than the car at the front of the start line.????????????

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, hyderd said:

Not sure if this example is correct, I have never seen a GP where the cars at the rear of the start,are closer to the cars at the front of the grid, surely if they are further apart at the end of the 1st lap, then their lap time must be slower than the car at the front of the start line.????????????

Only if they are further apart though, the last on the grid could have the fastest 1 st lap in theory.The example is correct IMO

[Daniel Smith]

2 hours ago, hyderd said:

Not sure if this example is correct, I have never seen a GP where the cars at the rear of the start,are closer to the cars at the front of the grid, surely if they are further apart at the end of the 1st lap, then their lap time must be slower than the car at the front of the start line.????????????

 

59 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Only if they are further apart though, the last on the grid could have the fastest 1 st lap in theory.The example is correct IMO

Exactly right. It's theory hence why first lap times are not recorded in F1. The only times recorded in F1 on the first lap is the gap differences between cars. Even the sector times are not officially recorded on the first lap.

Anyway. The argument is the accurate recording of fastest in Speedway. With transponders, it's an inaccurate way to record track records. No more accurate than a guy with a stop watch. 

 

[hyderd]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:06 PM, Daniel Smith said:

 

Exactly right. It's theory hence why first lap times are not recorded in F1. The only times recorded in F1 on the first lap is the gap differences between cars. Even the sector times are not officially recorded on the first lap.

Anyway. The argument is the accurate recording of fastest in Speedway. With transponders, it's an inaccurate way to record track records. No more accurate than a guy with a stop watch. 

 

Are we talking 1 lap or 4 laps as in speedway, if it's 1 lap I have never seen a race, run over 1 lap, if it's 4 laps, the one with the fastest time is the winner recardless of if he gated quickest or slowest. How did this conversation start.???????? 

[mickthemuppet]

When Wembley were racing in the league they had track records for one, two, and three laps  as well as the normal four. I think the one lap dash track record was 17.8seconds

[Fromafar]

13 hours ago, hyderd said:

Are we talking 1 lap or 4 laps as in speedway, if it's 1 lap I have never seen a race, run over 1 lap, if it's 4 laps, the one with the fastest time is the winner recardless of if he gated quickest or slowest. How did this conversation start.???????? 

You started it ,you obviously don’t understand your own question.

[Najjer]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:06 PM, Daniel Smith said:

 

Anyway. The argument is the accurate recording of fastest in Speedway. With transponders, it's an inaccurate way to record track records. No more accurate than a guy with a stop watch. 

 

The obvious solution is to have the transponders activated remotely as the tapes rise. That way you will then get the guy who finishes in 1st with the fastest time and the guy who comes 4th with the slowest time. Fairly simple solution.

[pvm]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:06 PM, Daniel Smith said:

 

Exactly right. It's theory hence why first lap times are not recorded in F1. The only times recorded in F1 on the first lap is the gap differences between cars. Even the sector times are not officially recorded on the first lap.

Anyway. The argument is the accurate recording of fastest in Speedway. With transponders, it's an inaccurate way to record track records. No more accurate than a guy with a stop watch. 

 

I think you'll find the reason the first lap of a F1 race is not recorded is because not all cars travel the same distance on the first lap, there are sensors installed under each grid slot, to detect jump starts and the main timing loop is installed on the Finish line, notice I didn't say Start/Finish line, some F1 circuits have the Finish line behind the grid, so in effect at some circuits, the front of the grid do not cross the Finish line and do not complete a full lap. The first lap timings are simply the time it takes from the Lights going out to the time the car crosses the Finish line on completion of the first lap, irrespective of whether the Cars cross the finish line on there way to the first bend or not.  
There are some circuits were the start line is in a different location to the Finish line.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by pvm

[pvm]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:43 PM, ch958 said:

Mark Lemon has described the newly fitted speed transponders as a step forward for the sport. To me its just more money to not make anything better, along with 4 valvers, laydowns, etc

It depends on what you use the transponders for, in an Ideal world, I would like the transponders to be used as part of the start process.
The process should be:-
Start Marshall calls riders to tapes.
When ready the Start Marshall indicates to referee, who presses a button to turn on the green light. The rest of the process is controlled by a computer.
The computer releases the tapes between 1 & 4 seconds of the green light coming on, or whatever the current rules are.

The computer has reaction time parameters set, and if a rider reacts quicker than those parameters, it's a false start, if none of rider do, the races continues, irrespective of a rider missing the start or reacting slower than everyone else. The transponders could also detect riders who are not still once the green light comes on.
You could theoretically allow one or more rider(s) to jump the start and add a time penalty at the end of the race, and reduce the number of restarts, not sure if that would be popular, but you could do it.  

Edited August 27, 2020 by pvm

[HenryW]

 

15 hours ago, Najjer said:

The obvious solution is to have the transponders activated remotely as the tapes rise. That way you will then get the guy who finishes in 1st with the fastest time and the guy who comes 4th with the slowest time. Fairly simple solution.

Yeah, exactly...it's not rocket science.

It's not like the transponders even need to have any remote activation as the transponders are reporting back to a base. The base just needs to be looped into the starting mechanism so that it knows when the tapes were released and after that it's not difficult to do the calculations...

Of course, transponders aren't the answer to everything. I have seen races where the initial transponder result shows a winner, only to be overturned when the photo finish has been examined...At high speed a slight difference in placement of the transponder can make a relatively big difference. The chances of that at the speeds of speedway are probably fairly slim unless there is some very poor placement of transponders....and even in those situations, they would always be much better than some old bloke fumbling with a stopwatch.