Poole 2020

[Steve Shovlar]

Interestingly Matt hardly ever went to the agm. Normally someone there on his behalf. 

[Badge]

36 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Interestingly Matt hardly ever went to the agm. Normally someone there on his behalf. 

Lol perhaps he didn't need to,  I expect he'd sorted everything to his liking beforehand 

[Dave Jones]

6 minutes ago, Badge said:

Lol perhaps he didn't need to,  I expect he'd sorted everything to his liking beforehand 

Methinks Shovlar doth protest too much.

[E I Addio]

4 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

Ford was a major player in what was decided at AGM,s because he had the rider assets that a lot of clubs wanted for the next years Speedway, you would have to be incredible naive to think otherwise.

i can also remember a certain Poole match at Swindon and another involving Poole at Peterborough when averages were manipulated, both incidents were investigated by the SCB at the time.

I certainly have no wish to see Poole or any other speedway close but to paint Matt Ford as some kind of UK speedway saviour is a bit rich and just insults peoples intelligence.

As I said before Matt Ford just cared about Winning Titles and Making money at Poole.

Poole were indeed investigated over fiddling averages, and as said earlier it was Lakeside that asked for the investigation.  The so-called investigation by the SCB was a farce because nobody from opposing teams was interviewed , as I recall, only Poole riders and a few track staff/ medics who surprise, surprise claimed to know nothing about average manipulation. However that doesn’t prove that not just Ford but the all the other EL clubs conspired with him to turn Coventry over. 

[Arthur54]

20 hours ago, JamesHarris said:

I realise that some people will not like Poole. As a Coventry fan I understand that. In football depending on who you support you may not like Man Utd or Liverpool. But I will say this, I have been disgusted by the comments I have read on here and social media from so called fans who seem to be gloating at the fact Poole may close. Poole have been the best team for years. Love em' or hate em' hats off to Matt Ford. If Poole go under any true speedway fan should take heed. 

It's what is called jealousy, Poole have been the most successful team in this country for the last 20 years by far, and people hate it, if most of the promoters in the country were as switched on as Matt, things wouldn't be in the mess they are now 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Arthur54

[Arthur54]

5 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

Ford was a major player in what was decided at AGM,s because he had the rider assets that a lot of clubs wanted for the next years Speedway, you would have to be incredible naive to think otherwise.

i can also remember a certain Poole match at Swindon and another involving Poole at Peterborough when averages were manipulated, both incidents were investigated by the SCB at the time.

I certainly have no wish to see Poole or any other speedway close but to paint Matt Ford as some kind of UK speedway saviour is a bit rich and just insults peoples intelligence.

As I said before Matt Ford just cared about Winning Titles and Making money at Poole.

That's strange, i thought winning titles and making money was the name of the game, or is the other way round, lose money and couldn't care about winning trophies 

[E I Addio]

14 hours ago, orion said:

Making Cov weaker quite suited Ford and of course that was the main point . Ward being under 8 was also  perfect once the one rider over 8 was brought in, a point made by many at the time . We all know that rule would never seen the light of day if Ward and Holder were both over 8   . it also allowed  bjane to go to Eastbourne if i remember what of course is very handy when you want  another club to vote for the same rules as you . 
 

 

 

 

 

There are three possible scenarios here: -

1.Ford decided to somehow punish  Coventry because of the play- off result on 4th October 2010

2 . The decision to weaken Coventry was taken at some point before 2010

3. Coventry and Peterborough  decided to drive  a coach and horses through the points limit that meant less financially sound clubs couldn’t field competitive teams.

The points limit in 2010 was 40.95 . Most clubs were already struggling to stay afloat with rider costs even at the level. We know from Stuart Douglas interview in he wanted more transparency about what clubs were paying and to stop riders setting  one club against another to see who would pay the most.

So, take scenario 1. If Ford wanted to punish Coventry as a result of the play offs it would have mean only out of pure malice and going against what had previously decided  and therefor a second best option. However, we know that most clubs wanted a 40-ish points limit anyway. Personally I dont think that scenario stands up.

So we come to scenario 2. Why would Ford specifically want to punish Coventry, when they were hardly even play off contenders until quite late in the season, and only just managed to scrape in the top 4. Nobody gave them much chance on paper and to be fair, 5 of them didn’t ride all that well and they only won on the back of great performances by Kasprzak and especially Bomber who rode one of the best meetings of his life. Coupled with that , when Dave Watt was interview half way through he said “ we are choking “ and Poole , frankly under performed on the night.

So, now onto scenario 3. Coventry and Peterborough were talking about a points limit of 45, which nobody else wanted but Poole could still have built a strong side on a 45 point limit by replacing Dave Watt with Kasprzak. In effect it really seems to me that taking into account everything we know about Trump and Sandhu they wanted to buy success. In fact they still had a pretty good side as it was, with Sayfudinov and Pawlicki, neither of whom came cheap.

So, all in all this is one occasion I wouldn’t lay the blame at Matt Fords door.

 

 

[BWitcher]

Was there not also a change in the rules which gave Pawlicki a higher average?

[orion]

25 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Was there not also a change in the rules which gave Pawlicki a higher average?

Correct .. for some El Addio etc keep going on about and the points limit .. the rule change about Pawlicki was the main problem

 

39 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

There are three possible scenarios here: -

1.Ford decided to somehow punish  Coventry because of the play- off result on 4th October 2010

2 . The decision to weaken Coventry was taken at some point before 2010

3. Coventry and Peterborough  decided to drive  a coach and horses through the points limit that meant less financially sound clubs couldn’t field competitive teams.

The points limit in 2010 was 40.95 . Most clubs were already struggling to stay afloat with rider costs even at the level. We know from Stuart Douglas interview in he wanted more transparency about what clubs were paying and to stop riders setting  one club against another to see who would pay the most.

So, take scenario 1. If Ford wanted to punish Coventry as a result of the play offs it would have mean only out of pure malice and going against what had previously decided  and therefor a second best option. However, we know that most clubs wanted a 40-ish points limit anyway. Personally I dont think that scenario stands up.

So we come to scenario 2. Why would Ford specifically want to punish Coventry, when they were hardly even play off contenders until quite late in the season, and only just managed to scrape in the top 4. Nobody gave them much chance on paper and to be fair, 5 of them didn’t ride all that well and they only won on the back of great performances by Kasprzak and especially Bomber who rode one of the best meetings of his life. Coupled with that , when Dave Watt was interview half way through he said “ we are choking “ and Poole , frankly under performed on the night.

So, now onto scenario 3. Coventry and Peterborough were talking about a points limit of 45, which nobody else wanted but Poole could still have built a strong side on a 45 point limit by replacing Dave Watt with Kasprzak. In effect it really seems to me that taking into account everything we know about Trump and Sandhu they wanted to buy success. In fact they still had a pretty good side as it was, with Sayfudinov and Pawlicki, neither of whom came cheap.

So, all in all this is one occasion I wouldn’t lay the blame at Matt Fords door.

 

 

Not sure why keep going on about the points limit etc .. that  was hardly the main problem .. The rule about Pawlicki was quite clearly the main problem and clearly spoken and made up after the final had finished  . Not sure you really understand how bitter he was about that defeat .

As I said the points limit was not really the main problem

[BWitcher]

Correct.. the pts limit was not even an issue.

It was Pawlicki.. and the conversion for riders moving up.

[cityrebel]

1 hour ago, Arthur54 said:

It's what is called jealousy, Poole have been the most successful team in this country for the last 20 years by far, and people hate it, if most of the promoters in the country were as switched on as Matt, things wouldn't be in the mess they are now 

Is this the same bloke who has sat back and watched his track deteriorate until it bordered on being dangerous. Seen his fan base shrink before his eyes and overseen his clubs demotion to the second tier of British speedway.

[orion]

1 hour ago, Arthur54 said:

That's strange, i thought winning titles and making money was the name of the game, or is the other way round, lose money and couldn't care about winning trophies 

The point being made its that El Addio said that the rules he made were for the good of the sport .. what others are pointing out it that he only care about himself and his club

[Dave Jones]

12 minutes ago, orion said:

 

Not sure why keep going on about the points limit etc .. that  was hardly the main problem .. The rule about Pawlicki was quite clearly the main problem and clearly spoken and made up after the final had finished  . Not sure you really understand how bitter he was about that defeat .

As I said the points limit was not really the main problem

I think EIA needs a reminder of what was going on around that time.Ford was unhappy that Coventry had managed to keep Shamek at reserve for so long, IMO they used the very same criteria that Ford himself used many times (ie they played Ford at his own game)and he didn't like it .Pawlicki's 16 +1  did for Poole on the second leg meeting and Ford reacted by taking in his firework display, turning off the hot water to the visitors shower room & removing the Champagne from the bar area. Hardly the reaction  expected from a mature person.

Then came the sudden rapidly arranged meeting by a select few who connived a change in the conversion factor for lower league riders moving up, effectively screwing up bees deals for two riders already in place. I've seen comments that the teams shouldn't be selected before the AGM but we all know that it was the accepted way of doing things for years ,and probably stilll is now. We also had the re assessment of Pawlicki's average, another very unfair decision. 

Despite all the protests to the contrary it seems blatantly obvious that Ford was the Prime Mover in all that went on in the winter of discontent, & to add insult to injury he then proceded to register Kildemand as a poole rider whilst the bees were in the middle of a team shuffle mid season 2011. Kildemand went public and stated that he had no knowledge of his transfer to Poole as he hadn't even spoken to Ford. But it did have the desired effect as it stopped Coventry using him again.Those are just some of the moves of a very underhanded & bitter man.

[BWitcher]

22 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

I think EIA needs a reminder of what was going on around that time.Ford was unhappy that Coventry had managed to keep Shamek at reserve for so long, IMO they used the very same criteria that Ford himself used many times (ie they played Ford at his own game)and he didn't like it .Pawlicki's 16 +1  did for Poole on the second leg meeting and Ford reacted by taking in his firework display, turning off the hot water to the visitors shower room & removing the Champagne from the bar area. Hardly the reaction  expected from a mature person.

Then came the sudden rapidly arranged meeting by a select few who connived a change in the conversion factor for lower league riders moving up, effectively screwing up bees deals for two riders already in place. I've seen comments that the teams shouldn't be selected before the AGM but we all know that it was the accepted way of doing things for years ,and probably stilll is now. We also had the re assessment of Pawlicki's average, another very unfair decision. 

Despite all the protests to the contrary it seems blatantly obvious that Ford was the Prime Mover in all that went on in the winter of discontent, & to add insult to injury he then proceded to register Kildemand as a poole rider whilst the bees were in the middle of a team shuffle mid season 2011. Kildemand went public and stated that he had no knowledge of his transfer to Poole as he hadn't even spoken to Ford. But it did have the desired effect as it stopped Coventry using him again.Those are just some of the moves of a very underhanded & bitter man.

Spot on.

It was downhill from there for the Elite League, culminating in the closure of one of the sports longest running, most successful and best supported teams.

[Dave Jones]

24 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It was downhill from there for the Elite League, culminating in the closure of one of the sports longest running, most successful and best supported teams.

Absolutely, I know I shouldn't really" go there" as it's going over old ground  once again but it still hurts 10 years on.

[Arthur54]

1 hour ago, cityrebel said:

Is this the same bloke who has sat back and watched his track deteriorate until it bordered on being dangerous. Seen his fan base shrink before his eyes and overseen his clubs demotion to the second tier of British speedway.

Yes this is the same bloke who is trying to save them from dissappearing for ever 

[Lefty]

50 years ago a Coventry chap with the initials 'C.O.' would have sorted out the above Poole shenanigans ..... now some would consider another 'C.O.' is "developing" into a greater threat to Poole Speedway?

[E I Addio]

2 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

I think EIA needs a reminder of what was going on around that time.Ford was unhappy that Coventry had managed to keep Shamek at reserve for so long, IMO they used the very same criteria that Ford himself used many times (ie they played Ford at his own game)and he didn't like it .Pawlicki's 16 +1  did for Poole on the second leg meeting and Ford reacted by taking in his firework display, turning off the hot water to the visitors shower room & removing the Champagne from the bar area. Hardly the reaction  expected from a mature person.

Then came the sudden rapidly arranged meeting by a select few who connived a change in the conversion factor for lower league riders moving up, effectively screwing up bees deals for two riders already in place. I've seen comments that the teams shouldn't be selected before the AGM but we all know that it was the accepted way of doing things for years ,and probably stilll is now. We also had the re assessment of Pawlicki's average, another very unfair decision. 

Despite all the protests to the contrary it seems blatantly obvious that Ford was the Prime Mover in all that went on in the winter of discontent, & to add insult to injury he then proceded to register Kildemand as a poole rider whilst the bees were in the middle of a team shuffle mid season 2011. Kildemand went public and stated that he had no knowledge of his transfer to Poole as he hadn't even spoken to Ford. But it did have the desired effect as it stopped Coventry using him again.Those are just some of the moves of a very underhanded & bitter man.

Who were the  “select few “ who connived the change ? When was it and who was present ?

[E I Addio]

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

Spot on.

It was downhill from there for the Elite League, culminating in the closure of one of the sports longest running, most successful and best supported teams.

The Elite League was already on the way down before that. Ipswich was already dropping to the lower league , and as I said before allegations of Poole cheating were in the air a year earlier when the SCB completely failed to investigate in any meaningful way, plus the TV meetings that got to heat 10 with Poole in front when the track “suddenly “became dangerous . They were appalling decisions and nails in the coffin which were unrelated to the winter of discontent.

However there were other things that contributed, like Belle Vue lying about their flooded track, and Kings Lynn cancelling a match because it was supposedly going to take 3 days to change a fuse. Most of them played a part in the decline, which got even worse when Chapman and especially Godfrey got control. As for Coventry Sandhu’s game always was to shut the place and in his words “ cover it in tarmac”

[cityrebel]

16 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

The Elite League was already on the way down before that. Ipswich was already dropping to the lower league , and as I said before allegations of Poole cheating were in the air a year earlier when the SCB completely failed to investigate in any meaningful way, plus the TV meetings that got to heat 10 with Poole in front when the track “suddenly “became dangerous . They were appalling decisions and nails in the coffin which were unrelated to the winter of discontent.

However there were other things that contributed, like Belle Vue lying about their flooded track, and Kings Lynn cancelling a match because it was supposedly going to take 3 days to change a fuse. Most of them played a part in the decline, which got even worse when Chapman and especially Godfrey got control. As for Coventry Sandhu’s game always was to shut the place and in his words “ cover it in tarmac”

I'm one of the 'Gods' biggest critics, but fair play to him for lobbying the council into letting him stage an excellent meeting at Scunny yesterday. Most of the promoters in this country are still hiding behind their sofas.