mikebv Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: It’s all to do with the rider level. But crowds plummeted whilst top riders rode over here so how does that work? Woffy rode as World Champ for a season at Wolves but I didnt see any 'full house' signs going up at Monmore or indeed anywhere else.. Woffy,, Emil, Majic, Doyle, Ward, Holder, NKI, Nicki P, Zagar, Lindback, Lindgren and Hancock have all rode over here in the timeline when thousands of punters decided to stop going.. Maybe due to the annual inflation busting price increases to pay for them? Or maybe due to the ever changing fixture list to accommodate their own agendas? Or maybe down to when these guys had a meeting clash due to their full calendar (as so in demand), you ended up with a plethora of guests to replace them, thus rendering meetings with minimal credibility and fans feeling short changed? It's £18 to watch second, third, fourth and fifth level riders now.. How much would be charged to watch the top guys? They don't come cheap and are there enough sponsors willing to cough up what will need to be a whole leagues worth of superstars, as if each team doesn't have one then those without will struggle.. Thousands have deserted the domestic product over the past ten years or so.. Having Global superstars in front of them each week didn't prevent this exodus.. NB As an aside, the best meeting I saw this year was the Colts v Kent. All for a tenner for me and free for my 16 year old lad. I would actually defy any world class riders to have delivered better such was the quality of racing and entertainment on offer. Hence we went back six more times this season. Edited October 13, 2019 by mikebv 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, Mediman said: I wou;s love to see top riders back but that is not going to happen why ride at £150- 200 per point in England when you can earn €1700 per point in Poland. The British promoters pay for mechanics even insurance at times and have to get the ruder to the track it’s not financially viable . Top rider scores 10 paid 12 £150 per point £1800.00 plus all the extras say total 2250.00 and that’s minimum for 1 rider at 15 entrance your first 150 people pay for the top rider and you haven’t even thought of all the costs involved you do that on a home and away basis then your first 300 people pay for that rider. Simply put British speedway cannot compete with the other leagues unless things change. Sweden can afford them on smaller crowds. As I said it is all down to securing proper money for the product. BT have done us no favours. If Eurosport take over the tv rights they need to pay proper money for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur54 Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, Gavan said: Pooles season finished the moment they stopped using r/r at 2 and lost Covatti into the main body If they had operated that against us with Klindt , Josh and Covatti taking r/r rides and Covatti having 6 or 7 rides from reserve they would have won THJ at reserve with Wells and Covatti at 2 cost them any chance of the league Hate to say it, i totally agree with all of that post 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said: you can’t debate so you post vitriolic crap (that means aggressive criticism if you don’t understand that word) So you don’t think the stars of the sport will make ny difference to crowd levels? You are not worth debating with. Suggest you go back to your brexit mates in the general section where you have some protection. A dead cat bounce Steve.. Happens every time a world class rider returns.. A few weeks after the novelty has worn off we are back to the same crowd levels ( but with a huge earner now to pay).. Fixed nights meant superstars would come back and we wouldn't need guests to replace them anymore as the nights were fixed and fixtures were in stone.. What happened to that? Did they not get the memo? Or was the stark financial reality of bringing them back more the issue? Edited October 12, 2019 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur54 Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, mikebv said: But crowds plummeted whilst top riders rode over here so how does that work? Woffy rode as World Champ for a season at Wolves but I didn't see any 'full house' signs going up at Monmore or indeed anywhere else.. Woofy, Emil, Majic, Doyle, Ward, Holder, NKI, Nicki P, Zagar, Lindback, Lindgren and Hancock have all rode over here in the timeline when thousands of punters decided to stop going.. Maybe due to the annual inflation busting price increases to pay for them? Or maybe due to the ever changing fixture list to accommodate their own agendas? Or maybe down to when these guys had a meeting clash due to their full calendar (as so in demand), you ended up with a plethora of guests to replace them, thus rendering meetings with minimal credibility and fans feeling short changed? It's £18 to watch second, third, fourth and fifth level riders now.. How much would be charged to watch the top guys? They don't come cheap and are there enough sponsors willing to cough up what will need to be a whole leagues worth of superstars, as if each team doesn't have one then those without will struggle.. Thousands have deserted the domestic product over the past ten years or so.. Having Global superstars in front of them each week didn't prevent this exodus.. NB As an aside, the best meeting I saw this year was the Colts v Kent. All for a tenner for me and free for my 16 year old lad. I would actually defy any world class riders to have delivered better such was the quality of racing and entertainment on offer. Hence we went back six more times this season. Pooles crowds started to drop the moment we lost Darcy and Chris, things have never been the same since 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Arthur54 said: Pooles crowds started to drop the moment we lost Darcy and Chris, things have never been the same since Yep. Top riders attract bigger crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booey boy Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said: you can’t debate so you post vitriolic crap (that means aggressive criticism if you don’t understand that word) So you don’t think the stars of the sport will make ny difference to crowd levels? You are not worth debating with. Suggest you go back to your brexit mates in the general section where you have some protection. Why are you bringing politics into this. This forum is about speedway not whether you voted to leave or remain everybody has there own veiw 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 https://www.poole-speedway.com/news/view/2019-10-12-fans-views-sough-as-pirates-look-to-shape-their-future Club owner Matt Ford has revealed that the 2019 season proved to be the most difficult financially in his 21 years at the helm of the club, explaining "The change of race days from Wednesdays, our night for 50 years or more, to Thursdays had an impact on crowds. We are all creatures of habit and had got used to speedway on a Wednesday, myself included. It was not something I wanted to happen but the league chose to go with Mondays and Thursdays to avoid other international commitments. "We took on a new main team sponsor, No1 Carpet Cleaning, which I can confirm has gone into liquidation owing the club a substantial amount of money – around 75 per cent of the agreed fee for 2019. After a highly successful 2018 where we saw the Pirates crowned Champions we had hoped for an increased level in Season Ticket sales. Unfortunately although tickets went on sale as early as December, sales dropped by 20% on the previous year. Likewise gate receipts for home matches have been down 20-25% and as much as 50% lower when the club ride live on television. "I have also listened to many supporters express opinions over the lack of varied opposition within the Premiership which currently has just 7 teams represented. "That has led me to ask a few questions and I am therefore seeking feedback from the supporters to the questions list below. We are seeking feedback via email ONLY to info@poole-speedway.com by 8pm on Monday (14th October), so that we can consolidate the thoughts and opinions which will then help us determine how best to take the club forward in the future." "I would emphasise however, that although the club still remains for sale, we are only prepared to do that should the right offer be made and it is the intentions of the current management team to still be running the club in 2020 with my son Dan taking a more hands-on role and becoming far more involved in a move that I feel certain will benefit the club. He is very keen to be more active and his ideas to take the club forward, on a day-to-day basis and on the promotional side, are probably better than mine now, although I will be keeping an eye on certain aspects and staying heavily involved in team building." "The questions that I would like you, the supporters, to consider are: a) Would you prefer to see us ride in a league with more opponents and if so, how important is the level to you? - As an example, the Ipswich one-to-seven that came to us for the play-offs had six riders who also compete in the Championship. We automatically see the championship as a lower level but in reality many riders are competing in both leagues. b) How much of an issue has the change of race day been to you and people you know? Specifically, how much has it impacted on your ability to attend? How many people do you know who have been unable to attend due to the change? and, finally, c) how can we improve things to make the stadium more appealing? I ask that bearing in mind that our stadium is rented and that means the speedway club take nothing from the sales of refreshments. While I would love to give everyone plush new surroundings like Belle Vue, what we have is what we have and that’s not a criticism of the landlord or anyone else, just the facts. I am sure we will see a certain amount of development of the site over time, including some social housing, and I see that as a positive if it means we are going to obtain a new stadium within the same grounds as part of that package. So, please let us know by email as soon as possible, because it could be that your points need further review or a response and this medium will make it easier for us to get back to you should we need to clarify any further points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: Sweden can afford them on smaller crowds. As I said it is all down to securing proper money for the product. BT have done us no favours. If Eurosport take over the tv rights they need to pay proper money for it. MOST Swedish tracks probably have bigger crowds and far less overheads but more and more riders are opting to just ride in Poland. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said: https://www.poole-speedway.com/news/view/2019-10-12-fans-views-sough-as-pirates-look-to-shape-their-future Club owner Matt Ford has revealed that the 2019 season proved to be the most difficult financially in his 21 years at the helm of the club, explaining "The change of race days from Wednesdays, our night for 50 years or more, to Thursdays had an impact on crowds. We are all creatures of habit and had got used to speedway on a Wednesday, myself included. It was not something I wanted to happen but the league chose to go with Mondays and Thursdays to avoid other international commitments. "We took on a new main team sponsor, No1 Carpet Cleaning, which I can confirm has gone into liquidation owing the club a substantial amount of money – around 75 per cent of the agreed fee for 2019. After a highly successful 2018 where we saw the Pirates crowned Champions we had hoped for an increased level in Season Ticket sales. Unfortunately although tickets went on sale as early as December, sales dropped by 20% on the previous year. Likewise gate receipts for home matches have been down 20-25% and as much as 50% lower when the club ride live on television. "I have also listened to many supporters express opinions over the lack of varied opposition within the Premiership which currently has just 7 teams represented. "That has led me to ask a few questions and I am therefore seeking feedback from the supporters to the questions list below. We are seeking feedback via email ONLY to info@poole-speedway.com by 8pm on Monday (14th October), so that we can consolidate the thoughts and opinions which will then help us determine how best to take the club forward in the future." "I would emphasise however, that although the club still remains for sale, we are only prepared to do that should the right offer be made and it is the intentions of the current management team to still be running the club in 2020 with my son Dan taking a more hands-on role and becoming far more involved in a move that I feel certain will benefit the club. He is very keen to be more active and his ideas to take the club forward, on a day-to-day basis and on the promotional side, are probably better than mine now, although I will be keeping an eye on certain aspects and staying heavily involved in team building." "The questions that I would like you, the supporters, to consider are: a) Would you prefer to see us ride in a league with more opponents and if so, how important is the level to you? - As an example, the Ipswich one-to-seven that came to us for the play-offs had six riders who also compete in the Championship. We automatically see the championship as a lower level but in reality many riders are competing in both leagues. b) How much of an issue has the change of race day been to you and people you know? Specifically, how much has it impacted on your ability to attend? How many people do you know who have been unable to attend due to the change? and, finally, c) how can we improve things to make the stadium more appealing? I ask that bearing in mind that our stadium is rented and that means the speedway club take nothing from the sales of refreshments. While I would love to give everyone plush new surroundings like Belle Vue, what we have is what we have and that’s not a criticism of the landlord or anyone else, just the facts. I am sure we will see a certain amount of development of the site over time, including some social housing, and I see that as a positive if it means we are going to obtain a new stadium within the same grounds as part of that package. So, please let us know by email as soon as possible, because it could be that your points need further review or a response and this medium will make it easier for us to get back to you should we need to clarify any further points. These are like essay questions!! I feel like I am back at school Edit - interesting that the third question is about the stadium and not track prep!! Edited October 12, 2019 by lisa-colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: MOST Swedish tracks probably have bigger crowds and far less overheads but more and more riders are opting to just ride in Poland. There’s only 56 places in the extra league. Riders need more than one meeting a week in the Nice league to make a healthy living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: you can’t debate so you post vitriolic crap (that means aggressive criticism if you don’t understand that word) So you don’t think the stars of the sport will make ny difference to crowd levels? You are not worth debating with. Suggest you go back to your brexit mates in the general section where you have some protection. The thing with you is everything you say is done to get a reaction me me me you need to be the centre of attention.But the real truth is you talk so much crap nobody takes you seriously i dont certainly on speedway matters clueless. Edited October 13, 2019 by Sidney the robin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) I’m sure top riders returning would bring more folk through the door but the sport had been run so badly over the last ten years or so that I fear we are beyond the point of no return now unfortunately. It all needs a major overhaul and to be pointed in a completely different direction before we can think about getting the big boys over here. Poland paying the kind of money they do might rule it out anyway. Edited October 13, 2019 by Bagpuss 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: I’m sure top riders returning would bring more folk through the door but the sport had been run so badly over the last ten years or so that I fear we are beyond the point of no return now unfortunately. It all needs a major overhaul and to be pointed in a completely different direction before we can think about getting the big boys over here. Poland paying the kind of money they do might rule it out anyway. Havvys idea of getting rid completely of the points limit has merit to a point. Let clubs build to what they can afford. But perhaps with the save at that there needs to be a couple of u21s and a minimum of three Brits per team. Just a thought nothing more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur54 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 12 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: https://www.poole-speedway.com/news/view/2019-10-12-fans-views-sough-as-pirates-look-to-shape-their-future Club owner Matt Ford has revealed that the 2019 season proved to be the most difficult financially in his 21 years at the helm of the club, explaining "The change of race days from Wednesdays, our night for 50 years or more, to Thursdays had an impact on crowds. We are all creatures of habit and had got used to speedway on a Wednesday, myself included. It was not something I wanted to happen but the league chose to go with Mondays and Thursdays to avoid other international commitments. "We took on a new main team sponsor, No1 Carpet Cleaning, which I can confirm has gone into liquidation owing the club a substantial amount of money – around 75 per cent of the agreed fee for 2019. After a highly successful 2018 where we saw the Pirates crowned Champions we had hoped for an increased level in Season Ticket sales. Unfortunately although tickets went on sale as early as December, sales dropped by 20% on the previous year. Likewise gate receipts for home matches have been down 20-25% and as much as 50% lower when the club ride live on television. "I have also listened to many supporters express opinions over the lack of varied opposition within the Premiership which currently has just 7 teams represented. "That has led me to ask a few questions and I am therefore seeking feedback from the supporters to the questions list below. We are seeking feedback via email ONLY to info@poole-speedway.com by 8pm on Monday (14th October), so that we can consolidate the thoughts and opinions which will then help us determine how best to take the club forward in the future." "I would emphasise however, that although the club still remains for sale, we are only prepared to do that should the right offer be made and it is the intentions of the current management team to still be running the club in 2020 with my son Dan taking a more hands-on role and becoming far more involved in a move that I feel certain will benefit the club. He is very keen to be more active and his ideas to take the club forward, on a day-to-day basis and on the promotional side, are probably better than mine now, although I will be keeping an eye on certain aspects and staying heavily involved in team building." "The questions that I would like you, the supporters, to consider are: a) Would you prefer to see us ride in a league with more opponents and if so, how important is the level to you? - As an example, the Ipswich one-to-seven that came to us for the play-offs had six riders who also compete in the Championship. We automatically see the championship as a lower level but in reality many riders are competing in both leagues. b) How much of an issue has the change of race day been to you and people you know? Specifically, how much has it impacted on your ability to attend? How many people do you know who have been unable to attend due to the change? and, finally, c) how can we improve things to make the stadium more appealing? I ask that bearing in mind that our stadium is rented and that means the speedway club take nothing from the sales of refreshments. While I would love to give everyone plush new surroundings like Belle Vue, what we have is what we have and that’s not a criticism of the landlord or anyone else, just the facts. I am sure we will see a certain amount of development of the site over time, including some social housing, and I see that as a positive if it means we are going to obtain a new stadium within the same grounds as part of that package. So, please let us know by email as soon as possible, because it could be that your points need further review or a response and this medium will make it easier for us to get back to you should we need to clarify any further points. So what are peoples thoughts to the 3 questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: I know more about the sport than you ever will. For someone to vote for brexit then lose their job because of brexit shows you are a turkey who voted for Christmas like all those in Sunderland who work for Nissan. Clueless! Why do you have to get personal? Why are you always fishing for a reaction? Why don’t you just keep it to speedway! 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMessiahOfTheBSF Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 12 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: https://www.poole-speedway.com/news/view/2019-10-12-fans-views-sough-as-pirates-look-to-shape-their-future Club owner Matt Ford has revealed that the 2019 season proved to be the most difficult financially in his 21 years at the helm of the club, explaining "The change of race days from Wednesdays, our night for 50 years or more, to Thursdays had an impact on crowds. We are all creatures of habit and had got used to speedway on a Wednesday, myself included. It was not something I wanted to happen but the league chose to go with Mondays and Thursdays to avoid other international commitments. "We took on a new main team sponsor, No1 Carpet Cleaning, which I can confirm has gone into liquidation owing the club a substantial amount of money – around 75 per cent of the agreed fee for 2019. After a highly successful 2018 where we saw the Pirates crowned Champions we had hoped for an increased level in Season Ticket sales. Unfortunately although tickets went on sale as early as December, sales dropped by 20% on the previous year. Likewise gate receipts for home matches have been down 20-25% and as much as 50% lower when the club ride live on television. "I have also listened to many supporters express opinions over the lack of varied opposition within the Premiership which currently has just 7 teams represented. "That has led me to ask a few questions and I am therefore seeking feedback from the supporters to the questions list below. We are seeking feedback via email ONLY to info@poole-speedway.com by 8pm on Monday (14th October), so that we can consolidate the thoughts and opinions which will then help us determine how best to take the club forward in the future." "I would emphasise however, that although the club still remains for sale, we are only prepared to do that should the right offer be made and it is the intentions of the current management team to still be running the club in 2020 with my son Dan taking a more hands-on role and becoming far more involved in a move that I feel certain will benefit the club. He is very keen to be more active and his ideas to take the club forward, on a day-to-day basis and on the promotional side, are probably better than mine now, although I will be keeping an eye on certain aspects and staying heavily involved in team building." "The questions that I would like you, the supporters, to consider are: a) Would you prefer to see us ride in a league with more opponents and if so, how important is the level to you? - As an example, the Ipswich one-to-seven that came to us for the play-offs had six riders who also compete in the Championship. We automatically see the championship as a lower level but in reality many riders are competing in both leagues. b) How much of an issue has the change of race day been to you and people you know? Specifically, how much has it impacted on your ability to attend? How many people do you know who have been unable to attend due to the change? and, finally, c) how can we improve things to make the stadium more appealing? I ask that bearing in mind that our stadium is rented and that means the speedway club take nothing from the sales of refreshments. While I would love to give everyone plush new surroundings like Belle Vue, what we have is what we have and that’s not a criticism of the landlord or anyone else, just the facts. I am sure we will see a certain amount of development of the site over time, including some social housing, and I see that as a positive if it means we are going to obtain a new stadium within the same grounds as part of that package. So, please let us know by email as soon as possible, because it could be that your points need further review or a response and this medium will make it easier for us to get back to you should we need to clarify any further points. a. Yes drop down to the Championship. No point putting the clubs future at risk just to please fickle fans like Steve Shovlar. It's all about securing the long term future of the club if that means a couple of years in the Championship then so be it. b. Speedway is a dying sport in the UK. The attendances will continue to drop. It's a circus in this country tbh. Riders quit clubs whenever they feel like it. Tracks are poorly prepared. Buster and some teams create a new rule book for themselves half way through the season. Only way to sort it out is the following. Money tree's appear and a proper governing body takes over the sport (Nobody associated with a Speedway Club) c. Spend money but again you would need money tree's to appear. Nothing is for free and clubs have to work within a budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, Steve0 said: Why do you have to get personal? Why are you always fishing for a reaction? Why don’t you just keep it to speedway! So I get personally attacked by others but gave to ignore it? Why haven’t you aimed that post at your best mate Sid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rockstar99 said: a. Yes drop down to the Championship. No point putting the clubs future at risk just to please fickle fans like Steve Shovlar. It's all about securing the long term future of the club if that means a couple of years in the Championship then so be it. b. Speedway is a dying sport in the UK. The attendances will continue to drop. It's a circus in this country tbh. Riders quit clubs whenever they feel like it. Tracks are poorly prepared. Buster and some teams create a new rule book for themselves half way through the season. Only way to sort it out is the following. Money tree's appear and a proper governing body takes over the sport (Nobody associated with a Speedway Club) c. Spend money but again you would need money tree's to appear. Nothing is for free and clubs have to work within a budget. Have you emailed this to info@poole-Speedway.com? No point posting it on here. All comments to be in by 8pm Monday. Though judging by the above “constructive comments” it will be deleted pretty quickly. Edited October 13, 2019 by Steve Shovlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMessiahOfTheBSF Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Steve Shovlar said: Have you emailed this to info@poole-Speedway.com? No point posting it on here. All comments to be in by 8pm Monday. Yes. Hopefully Poole do ride in the Premiership next season. Don't want to see anyone drop out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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