British world champions ratings list

[chunky]

1 minute ago, Sidney the robin said:

I do make huge mistakes i hold my hands  up to that but your arrogance astounds me.People i know and speak to at speedway who have real knowledge speak to me on a level playing field you dont do that Steve you think you are superior.

I am not going to apologise for correct use of the English language, and I am not going to "dumb down" for anyone. I attempt to write in a manner that is easy to understand and is not ambiguous. If there is something you don't understand, all you have to do is ask!

I break things down into separate paragraphs and sections to make it easier for people to respond to individual points and sentences.  When people can't - or won't - make the effort to understand what I am saying, or respond directly to simple questions or points, that's not my fault! However, it frustrates the hell out of me...

I have made a couple of points on here that you still can't get your head round. I have tried to explain, and I have totally broken everything down so you can understand, but all you want to do is argue and accuse, and get your knickers in a twist. And you think it's ME that needs to chill?

I know you STILL haven't got a clue what I am talking about, but I will say again that whatever you think about Tai IS NOT A FACTOR TO DETERMINE HIS ABILITY OR ACHIEVEMENTS, AND CANNOT BE USED AS SUCH.

[iris123]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

There are other fans in the Country who saw alot more of Peter Collins than you and i who still believe that Peter was the better rider.Does that make make them stupid??? are there opinions irrelevant?? you don't realise what a stupid comment that was to make.

Think you do sometimes let yourself down on these topics Sid. You don’t rate Tai because he doesn’t back the country in your opinion. Gustix it seems doesn’t rate him because of his appearance among other things. But they are prejudices that cloud your(his) view.

Let me start by saying I am a big big fan of PC. I was lucky to start going regularly just as he was bursting on the scene. He was a magnificent rider even at Plough Lane. I’d also say I haven’t really taken to Tai in the same way. He isn’t a big favourite of mine. But you compare the achievements and I find it impossible to come to any other conclusion than Tai is the better rider. He comes up against the best riders in the world on various tracks and can beat them regularly

All the stuff about British Finals and Team GB are a smoke screen. We have no way of knowing which riders from the 70s would do the same given today’s situation 

[Sidney the robin]

56 minutes ago, chunky said:

I am not going to apologise for correct use of the English language, and I am not going to "dumb down" for anyone. I attempt to write in a manner that is easy to understand and is not ambiguous. If there is something you don't understand, all you have to do is ask!

I break things down into separate paragraphs and sections to make it easier for people to respond to individual points and sentences.  When people can't - or won't - make the effort to understand what I am saying, or respond directly to simple questions or points, that's not my fault! However, it frustrates the hell out of me...

I have made a couple of points on here that you still can't get your head round. I have tried to explain, and I have totally broken everything down so you can understand, but all you want to do is argue and accuse, and get your knickers in a twist. And you think it's ME that needs to chill?

I know you STILL haven't got a clue what I am talking about, but I will say again that whatever you think about Tai IS NOT A FACTOR TO DETERMINE HIS ABILITY OR ACHIEVEMENTS, AND CANNOT BE USED AS SUCH.

Arrogance at its best you are so much up your own arse it is untrue.

[iris123]

Take a chill pill Sid

[Sidney the robin]

26 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Think you do sometimes let yourself down on these topics Sid. You don’t rate Tai because he doesn’t back the country in your opinion. Gustix it seems doesn’t rate him because of his appearance among other things. But they are prejudices that cloud your(his) view.

Let me start by saying I am a big big fan of PC. I was lucky to start going regularly just as he was bursting on the scene. He was a magnificent rider even at Plough Lane. I’d also say I haven’t really taken to Tai in the same way. He isn’t a big favourite of mine. But you compare the achievements and I find it impossible to come to any other conclusion than Tai is the better rider. He comes up against the best riders in the world on various tracks and can beat them regularly

All the stuff about British Finals and Team GB are a smoke screen. We have no way of knowing which riders from the 70s would do the same given today’s situation 

Great post Iris why cant Steve post like that??  he says i dont understand i do totally but dont agree with him it is as simple as that did you understand my point about Nicki/ Tomasz??? as an example.

[Sidney the robin]

2 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Take a chill pill Sid

I am chilled just p..... myself laughing about Steve and his cry for help.

[chunky]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

I am chilled just p..... myself laughing about Steve and his cry for help.

Oh trust me, Einstein, I'm not the one who needs help...

Iris tells you that you don't help yourself, and that you let prejudices cloud your view, and you take it as a compliment?

[Sidney the robin]

13 minutes ago, chunky said:

Oh trust me, Einstein, I'm not the one who needs help...

Iris tells you that you don't help yourself, and that you let prejudices cloud your view, and you take it as a compliment?

I dont  always agree with Iris and we have our spats but he  does not talk down people like yourself.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I dont  always agree with Iris and we have our spats but he  does not talk down people like yourself.

Well said Sidney the robin!!!

[chunky]

2 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I dont  always agree with Iris and we have our spats but he  does not talk down people like yourself.

So, me telling you that your prejudiced opinion is not "proof" that PC is better than Tai, is talking down to you?

[Sidney the robin]

44 minutes ago, chunky said:

So, me telling you that your prejudiced opinion is not "proof" that PC is better than Tai, is talking down to you?

I actually know Tai is a superb rider but hey we all have different opinions on different riders.

[chunky]

3 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I actually know Tai is a superb rider but hey we all have different opinions on different riders.

I have never questioned your opinion of who was better! What I questioned was the fact that you said PC was better because Tai "isn't committed to British speedway". That is totally irrelevant when it comes to ability, achievement, and rating.

[lucifer sam]

3 hours ago, iris123 said:

Think you do sometimes let yourself down on these topics Sid. You don’t rate Tai because he doesn’t back the country in your opinion. Gustix it seems doesn’t rate him because of his appearance among other things. But they are prejudices that cloud your(his) view.

Let me start by saying I am a big big fan of PC. I was lucky to start going regularly just as he was bursting on the scene. He was a magnificent rider even at Plough Lane. I’d also say I haven’t really taken to Tai in the same way. He isn’t a big favourite of mine. But you compare the achievements and I find it impossible to come to any other conclusion than Tai is the better rider. He comes up against the best riders in the world on various tracks and can beat them regularly

All the stuff about British Finals and Team GB are a smoke screen. We have no way of knowing which riders from the 70s would do the same given today’s situation 

Iris. I came to the sport a few years later than you, by which time PC had almost god-like status.  What he achieved in speedway was fantastic, and he probably was the best rider in the world circa '76 and '77. 

For me, Tai slightly edges his achievements, even though Tai hasn't finished yet.  There's occasions such as the 2018 Speedway Of Nations where Tai just wasn't simply the best rider in the world - he was on a different planet to every other World Class rider.

Also, the following should be pointed out:

* PC started 1978 by riding in meetings in US, which gained him a ban that led to his absence to the 1978 World Pairs semi-final (with Berry subsequently deciding to show faith in his semi-final pair and not include PC in the final).

* PC gave British Speedway a miss in 1981, riding in continental meetings (mostly West Germany).  Partially due to an injury sustained towards the end of '80 at Cradley Heath - partially through choice.

Not for a moment do I hold the above against PC, but it's an indication that place him in the same times of Tai and he may well have made the same decisions as Tai.

[chunky]

3 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

Also, the following should be pointed out:

* PC started 1978 by riding in meetings in US, which gained him a ban that led to his absence to the 1978 World Pairs semi-final (with Berry subsequently deciding to show faith in his semi-final pair and not include PC in the final).

* PC gave British Speedway a miss in 1981, riding in continental meetings (mostly West Germany).  Partially due to an injury sustained towards the end of '80 at Cradley Heath - partially through choice.

This is what gets me with modern society, and of course, social media is largely to blame. What people do now is no different to what they did years ago. The differences are :

1) It is now rammed down our throats via social media.

2) People today are intolerant, and offended by everything they see and read.

I've raised this issue several times on here when lack of loyalty has been discussed. Collins did it. Nielsen refused to ride for Denmark. Mauger and Briggs honoured continental commitments instead of breaking their contracts to ride in rescheduled British fixtures. Kennett said he was going to ride for Denmark. Wigg, Smith, and Cox all took out foreign licenses and represented other nations.

There were a few minor complaints, but everyone got on with their lives. Not these days! Not just Woffinden either. Look at the criticism of Jolts for representing Poland. Why? He lives there, and he has Polish citizenship. Do people whine about Ronnie Moore and Bob Andrews? They are no different.

Fact (and there's that nasty word again) is, it doesn't - and shouldn't - make any difference to the way a rider's ability or achievements are viewed. Particularly when it has been happening for years, and everyone was okay with it.