Guest Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, E I Addio said: I am pretty sure he beat Jack Parker in the British Match Race Championship when still in the second division with Edinburgh. The British Match Race Championship was exclusively for National League Division One riders - hence no Jack Parker v Jack Young event. There were as I recall separate match race championships for Division Two and Division Three at one time. 26 minutes ago, norbold said: I don't think he beat Jack Parker. I agree norbold. There was no Jack Parker v Jack Young match race challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, norbold said: I don't think he beat Jack Parker. He won it from Ronnie Moore in 1952 and then held it against Moore, Freddie Williams and Split Waterman. He later won it again in 1955 when he won by default against Ronnie Moore, who was injured. He was then injured himself and didn't defend it. I think Jack won the Silver Helmet in 1951 and the Scottish MRC in 1949 and 51 i never even knew they had a Silver Helmet then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 In 1951, Jack Young began the year as holder of the Silver Helmet and then went on to defend it against Arthur Forrest, Derek Close, Bob Leverenz before losing it to Tommy Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 6 hours ago, E I Addio said: World Champ in 1951 and 52, first and only second division rider to win the World Title ( which shows how competitive the second division was in those days). Another second division rider, Bob Leverenz, also qualified for the 1951 final, finishing 8th, while Geoff Mardon, a third division rider, qualified as reserve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, norbold said: In 1951, Jack Young began the year as holder of the Silver Helmet and then went on to defend it against Arthur Forrest, Derek Close, Bob Leverenz before losing it to Tommy Miller. I never knew the White ghost Ken le Bretton won the Silver Helmet in 1950, died in Aussie January 1951 RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, norbold said: I don't think he beat Jack Parker. He won it from Ronnie Moore in 1952 and then held it against Moore, Freddie Williams and Split Waterman. He later won it again in 1955 when he won by default against Ronnie Moore, who was injured. He was then injured himself and didn't defend it. Yes, me relying on faulty memory instead of checking before I posted. He did beat Jack Parker 2-0 in a match race meeting in Edinburgh but it was a non title event in 1950, presumably an “extra” to keep the crown entertained. In his first season with West Ham, 1952 he scored something like 19 maximums in 38 matches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmet Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: I never knew the White ghost Ken le Bretton won the Silver Helmet in 1950, died in Aussie January 1951 RIP. Take a look at the photograph plus all the GH and SH winners over time. Edited October 2, 2019 by britmet 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, britmet said: Take a look at the photograph I have that photo and others Britmet of Ken he was a rider i would of loved to see race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, britmet said: Take a look at the photograph plus all the GH and SH winners over time. Sorry, anecdote alert! Your link also shows all the BH winners as well. Some years ago, when I was writing my Speedway in the South East book, I interviewed Wally Green, who had ridden for Hastings in 1948. I asked him how he felt winning the Bronze Helmet from Bert Roger at his own track of Exeter. He told me he had never won the Bronze Helmet. I tried to assure him he had but he absolutely refused to believe me. When I saw him again, I took a copy of Speedway World to show him he had definitely won it. He said he had no recollection of it at all! So, I wasn't able to get a scoop on how he felt to put in my book!!! Mind you, I suppose finishing runner-up in the World Championship Final in 1950 does put the Bronze Helmet victory into the shade a bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, norbold said: Sorry, anecdote alert! Your link also shows all the BH winners as well. Some years ago, when I was writing my Speedway in the South East book, I interviewed Wally Green, who had ridden for Hastings in 1948. I asked him how he felt winning the Bronze Helmet from Bert Roger at his own track of Exeter. He told me he had never won the Bronze Helmet. I tried to assure him he had but he absolutely refused to believe me. When I saw him again, I took a copy of Speedway World to show him he had definitely won it. He said he had no recollection of it at all! So, I wasn't able to get a scoop on how he felt to put in my book!!! Mind you, I suppose finishing runner-up in the World Championship Final in 1950 does put the Bronze Helmet victory into the shade a bit! I did see Peter Craven had a really good record in the Pride of East when it was at Norwich.I imagine Ove had a marginal head to head record there but there duels would of been worth watching.. Edited October 2, 2019 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: I did see Peter Craven had a really good record in the Pride of East when it was at Norwich.I imagine Ove had a marginal head to head record there but there duels would of been worth watching.. I never got to Norwich speedway, but if anything like the duals at Belle Vue then certainly worth watching. Do I remember right that Firs Road was 425 yards and BV Hyde Road was 418 yards, similar size and I would imagine pretty similar shape, so like home from home for each of them. Fantastic riding together as they had completely different styles as much as they were completely different heights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 The sadly missed speedway historian, Keith Farman, who was an absolutely devoted Ove Fundin fan, made a comprehensive study of all Ove's races. He found that although Fundin beat all his main rivals more times than they beat him, Craven was the one who beat him the most times. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 6 hours ago, norbold said: In 1951, Jack Young began the year as holder of the Silver Helmet and then went on to defend it against Arthur Forrest, Derek Close, Bob Leverenz before losing it to Tommy Miller. Tommy Miller, what a phenomenon. Think that was only his 2nd season racing speedway, when he beat Young ? In his first year he beat Jack Parker in a Scotland v England test getting an 18 pt max... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 On 9/30/2019 at 6:27 PM, iris123 said: To show some empathy with mick, I would say sometime actually seeing a rider clouds your judgement. In my case having seen Per Jonsson a couple of times when he was very average, it is hard for me to rate him that highly Not quite sure what you mean as I probably saw Freddie Williams and Tommy Price more times than any of the others and Tai Woffenden the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 On 9/30/2019 at 6:38 PM, norbold said: Funnily enough, iris, I have that same problem with Peter Craven! I first went to speedway in 1960 at New Cross and there is no doubt that Fundin was the outstanding master of the Frying Pan; Moore was also excellent there and Briggo actually rode for New Cross in 1961. Craven always seemed to me to be some way behind those three. In fact I think Jack Young rode New Cross better than he did, even though he was past his best. It always seemed to me that Craven couldn't quite master such a small track and it did actually colour my view of him. My dad always reckoned Peter Craven was the best rider of his era around the Oxford track. It took many years for anyone to beat the track record that PC set against Fundin in a Golden Helmet match race in 1963. It was heavily rumoured that Craven was coming to Oxford in 1964. He'd put in a transfer request with Belle Vue at the start of '63, but was persuaded to stay one more season. Craven's main two reasons for wanting to join Oxford were apparently that it would be easier to get across to continental meetings, plus he'd be racing around a track that he loved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, mickthemuppet said: Not quite sure what you mean as I probably saw Freddie Williams and Tommy Price more times than any of the others and Tai Woffenden the least Think I explained myself quite clearly and find no need to clarify the point. Norbold understood, which seems to support my objective 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 59 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: It was heavily rumoured that Craven was coming to Oxford in 1964. He'd put in a transfer request with Belle Vue at the start of '63, but was persuaded to stay one more season. Craven's main two reasons for wanting to join Oxford were apparently that it would be easier to get across to continental meetings, plus he'd be racing around a track that he loved. Cant recall that rumour at all. I would be interested to know if any other supporter had heard about PC going to Oxford. He was a Liverpudlian, not that would stop him moving in itself. Nor did I hear he was wanting to do continental meetings, which in those days was not too common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said: Cant recall that rumour at all. I would be interested to know if any other supporter had heard about PC going to Oxford. He was a Liverpudlian, not that would stop him moving in itself. Nor did I hear he was wanting to do continental meetings, which in those days was not too common. Ove can't see that at all , Craven had been at Belle Vue since 1952 he was approaching his peak and maybe ? a testimonial would of happened i think it would of done and deservedly so.? Edited October 2, 2019 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, OveFundinFan said: Cant recall that rumour at all. I would be interested to know if any other supporter had heard about PC going to Oxford. He was a Liverpudlian, not that would stop him moving in itself. Nor did I hear he was wanting to do continental meetings, which in those days was not too common. A few of the older supporters at Oxford used to talk about it. From the Belle Vue end, the chap who sells the programmes at the NSS is convinced PC was moving to Oxford in '64. Remember Craven had already put in a transfer request at the start of 1963 (which we later withdrew). To do that, there must have been a track where he was considering to move. Maybe just a rumour, but maybe there was some substance in it. Edited October 2, 2019 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said: Ove can't see that at all , Craven had been at Belle Vue since 1952 he was approaching his peak and maybe ? a testimonial would of happened i think it would of done and deservedly so.? Sid, first Testimonial was Eric Boocock's in the mid-70s. No such thing in the 60s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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