British world champions ratings list

[iris123]

To show some empathy with mick, I would say sometime actually seeing a rider clouds your judgement. In my case having seen Per Jonsson a couple of times when he was very average, it is hard for me to rate him that highly

[norbold]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:27 PM, iris123 said:

To show some empathy with mick, I would say sometime actually seeing a rider clouds your judgement. In my case having seen Per Jonsson a couple of times when he was very average, it is hard for me to rate him that highly

Funnily enough, iris, I have that same problem with Peter Craven! I first went to speedway in 1960 at New Cross and there is no doubt that Fundin was the outstanding master of the Frying Pan; Moore was also excellent there and Briggo actually rode for New Cross in 1960. Craven always seemed to me to be some way behind those three. In fact I think Jack Young rode New Cross better than he did, even though he was past his best. It always seemed to me that Craven couldn't quite master such a small track and it did actually colour my view of him. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by norbold

[sommelier]

On 9/29/2019 at 5:39 PM, Sidney the robin said:

The 75 final was a dust bowl and PC did suffer more than anyone on that night when it was watered.1983 Lee for me was by far the best rider in the world in the last three month's of the season he murdered Carter 4.0 in the helmet over two legs. He come second in the BLRC after getting a duck egg first time out beat the Professor in a run off for second.He won the Pride of the East slamming Hans again and clocking a mighty fast time in one race.Muller was good very good and he deserved his victory but that track was set up for him he had laps of practice and nine times out of ten would not of beaten Lee on any other track in Europe.

You are so wrong regarding Muller, do your homework, Muller was almost unbeatable on the continent that year. Even Mauger said it was NO surprise he won that year. And lets not forget he was using the GM engine that was still very much in its development stage!!

[chunky]

1 hour ago, sommelier said:

You are so wrong regarding Muller, do your homework, Muller was almost unbeatable on the continent that year. Even Mauger said it was NO surprise he won that year. And lets not forget he was using the GM engine that was still very much in its development stage!!

Plus, people forget just how good a World Final record he had, considering he just "toyed" with speedway...

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, sommelier said:

You are so wrong regarding Muller, do your homework, Muller was almost unbeatable on the continent that year. Even Mauger said it was NO surprise he won that year. And lets not forget he was using the GM engine that was still very much in its development stage!!

He had two weeks practice at Norden and the track was set up for him yes he was brilliant on the day and even Carter insinuated that his engine was dodgy.As for unbeatable he looked pretty ordinary in the Ole benefit meeting look he was the favourite for the 1983 final.It was no surprise at all  we all wanted to draw Muller in the sweep stakes on the coach there was no surprise at all him winning he deserved it on the day

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, sommelier said:

You are so wrong regarding Muller, do your homework, Muller was almost unbeatable on the continent that year. Even Mauger said it was NO surprise he won that year. And lets not forget he was using the GM engine that was still very much in its development stage!!

Actually Ivan was one of few who said Jerzy was a big danger in 1973 when all the talk was about Plech.

[E I Addio]

3 hours ago, norbold said:

Funnily enough, iris, I have that same problem with Peter Craven! I first went to speedway in 1960 at New Cross and there is no doubt that Fundin was the outstanding master of the Frying Pan; Moore was also excellent there and Briggo actually rode for New Cross in 1961. Craven always seemed to me to be some way behind those three. In fact I think Jack Young rode New Cross better than he did, even though he was past his best. It always seemed to me that Craven couldn't quite master such a small track and it did actually colour my view of him. 

 Didn’t Jack Young beat the four of them, Fundin, Moore , Briggs and Craven in the Tom Farndon Trophy Meeting In 1961 before he returned to Oz for good ?

[norbold]

1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

 Didn’t Jack Young beat the four of them, Fundin, Moore , Briggs and Craven in the Tom Farndon Trophy Meeting In 1961 before he returned to Oz for good ?

He beat Moore, Knutson, Briggs and Craven in the Tom Farndon Memorial meeting. The week before he beat Fundin, Moore and Briggs in the King of the South Cup. So over those two weeks he beat all five of the "Big Five", including Moore and Briggs twice. 

[Sidney the robin]

4 hours ago, norbold said:

He beat Moore, Knutson, Briggs and Craven in the Tom Farndon Memorial meeting. The week before he beat Fundin, Moore and Briggs in the King of the South Cup. So over those two weeks he beat all five of the "Big Five", including Moore and Briggs twice. 

I often wondered how Briggs got around New Cross Norbold,  in your memory how was Briggs generally around New Cross.??

[Sidney the robin]

9 hours ago, E I Addio said:

 Didn’t Jack Young beat the four of them, Fundin, Moore , Briggs and Craven in the Tom Farndon Trophy Meeting In 1961 before he returned to Oz for good ?

He won it in 1951 as well,  he has to be in the top 20 greatest riders of all-time.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

He won it in 1951 as well,  he has to be in the top 20 greatest riders of all-time.

...and out of interest what would be your 'top 20 greatest riders of all-time' - in classified order - Sidney the robin?

[norbold]

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I often wondered how Briggs got around New Cross Norbold,  in your memory how was Briggs generally around New Cross.??

Briggo wasn't great round New Cross. Of course, he was very good and was New Cross's top rider but, apart from 1959, when he didn't ride in England apart from a couple of meetings at the end of the season including the World Championship Final, I think it was just about his worst year in Britain. Fundin and Moore were far better round New Cross. It was the first time his average dropped below 10 points per match since 1954. It was also the only year between 1956 and 1966 that he was ranked outside the Top Five in the end of year Speedway Star rankings.

23 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

He won it in 1951 as well,  he has to be in the top 20 greatest riders of all-time.

I would agree, Sidney. Notwithstanding Fred Williams's success in 1953, I would say that Jack Young was the dominant rider in the world from 1951-1954 when Ronnie Moore rose to stardom.

[norbold]

Incidentally, just as an observation....Those were the days, eh, when you could get two meetings in successive weeks at a track featuring the top riders in the world in individual competition?

I think we all know the chances of anything like that happening at a British track today!

[Sidney the robin]

59 minutes ago, gustix said:

...and out of interest what would be your 'top 20 greatest riders of all-time' - in classified order - Sidney the robin?

Will cause debate and a stir  as we would all probably change our list everyday of the week all down to the Individual and i will do my top 5 riders.      1./ Mauger.    2./ Fundin.    3./Nielsen.     4./ Briggs.  5./Rickardsson.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

Briggo wasn't great round New Cross. Of course, he was very good and was New Cross's top rider but, apart from 1959, when he didn't ride in England apart from a couple of meetings at the end of the season including the World Championship Final, I think it was just about his worst year in Britain. Fundin and Moore were far better round New Cross. It was the first time his average dropped below 10 points per match since 1954. It was also the only year between 1956 and 1966 that he was ranked outside the Top Five in the end of year Speedway Star rankings.

I would agree, Sidney. Notwithstanding Fred Williams's success in 1953, I would say that Jack Young was the dominant rider in the world from 1951-1954 when Ronnie Moore rose to stardom.

Thanks for that Norbold i always felt Barry was better at the bigger tracks ie) West Ham ( Stan Stevens beat him !!!!!! ) Hyde Rd, Swindon.

[E I Addio]

19 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

He won it in 1951 as well,  he has to be in the top 20 greatest riders of all-time.

World Champ in 1951 and 52, first and only second division rider to win the World Title ( which shows how competitive the second division was in those days). I am pretty sure he beat Jack Parker in the British Match Race Championship when still in the second division with Edinburgh. He still has a street named after him on the site of the old West Ham Stadium.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

World Champ in 1951 and 52, first and only second division rider to win the World Title ( which shows how competitive the second division was in those days). I am pretty sure he beat Jack Parker in the British Match Race Championship when still in the second division with Edinburgh. He still has a street named after him on the site of the old West Ham Stadium.

The second division must of been such a competitive league then,  going back to those days Jack reached seven world Final's 1950 / 55 all at Wembley then reached his last one with a five year gap 1960  also one at reserve at Malmo.I often think because of Bluey Willkinson/ and Jack's success poor old fellow Aussie Vic Duggan often gets forgotten through no fault of his own.

[steve roberts]

3 hours ago, E I Addio said:

World Champ in 1951 and 52, first and only second division rider to win the World Title ( which shows how competitive the second division was in those days). I am pretty sure he beat Jack Parker in the British Match Race Championship when still in the second division with Edinburgh. He still has a street named after him on the site of the old West Ham Stadium.

And, of course, proved inspirational to Ivan Mauger when Ivan spent his formative years in Aussie after his first venture to Britain didn't go to plan.

[Sidney the robin]

6 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

And, of course, proved inspirational to Ivan Mauger when Ivan spent his formative years in Aussie after his first venture to Britain didn't go to plan.

Went home regrouped worked hard and the rest is history it took real character that.Would many youngsters with a young family have the chararacter to do that today.?

[norbold]

4 hours ago, E I Addio said:

World Champ in 1951 and 52, first and only second division rider to win the World Title ( which shows how competitive the second division was in those days). I am pretty sure he beat Jack Parker in the British Match Race Championship when still in the second division with Edinburgh. He still has a street named after him on the site of the old West Ham Stadium.

I don't think he beat Jack Parker.

He won it from Ronnie Moore in 1952 and then held it against Moore, Freddie Williams and Split Waterman. He later won it again in 1955 when he won by default against Ronnie Moore, who was injured. He was then injured himself and didn't defend it.