Stoke closing down

[orion]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 6:28 PM, foamfence said:

I agree with that but it would mean reverting to one league and initially a lower standard of rider, fine by me but every time anyone suggests it on here they get shouted down.

It's get shouted down because putting the standard down  is one of the main problems speedway has and why crowds have drop and stadiums are shutting down ..of course when this happens the answer is the lower  the standard again .

The same old people who reckon 7 juniors on a sat night with no guests is somehow the way forward ..

[Sidney the robin]

8 minutes ago, False dawn said:

It was a very strange experience at Stoke last evening. As a (temporary) Leicester fan I always want my side to do well and their win was well fought and I believe, deserved. But there was always that feeling that these were the last ever heats to be raced on this excellent raceway. And I almost wanted the home side to do well, particularly those riders with a long association with the club. A going concern, cut down, maybe not in it's prime but still operating at a sustainable level. You can only come away from such meetings with a sense of loss, not just for the club itself, but for the sport in general. 

How has Hume performed this year False dawn?? no injuries which is great the odd fall here and there but overall what do you think.??

[foamfence]

29 minutes ago, orion said:

It's get shouted down because putting the standard down  is one of the main problems speedway has and why crowds have drop and stadiums are shutting down ..of course when this happens the answer is the lower  the standard again .

The same old people who reckon 7 juniors on a sat night with no guests is somehow the way forward ..

If you can't afford caviar you get scraps at the chip oyle.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, orion said:

It's get shouted down because putting the standard down  is one of the main problems speedway has and why crowds have drop and stadiums are shutting down ..of course when this happens the answer is the lower  the standard again .

The same old people who reckon 7 juniors on a sat night with no guests is somehow the way forward ..

The way forward is to run to a budget and keep the costs down apart from Doyle,Iversen,Lambert, Fricke, our top two league's are pretty even.Speedway is about putting on a show and i have seen national league meeting's that are just as exciting as the Premiership.It is a MYTH about the top stars bringing in the crowds it doesn't for me Speedway is about a good night out and all levels can give you that.

[orion]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

The way forward is to run to a budget and keep the costs down apart from Doyle,Iversen,Lambert, Fricke, our top two league's are pretty even.Speedway is about putting on a show and i have seen national league meeting's that are just as exciting as the Premiership.It is a MYTH about the top stars bringing in the crowds it doesn't for me Speedway is about a good night out and all levels can give you that.

So why don't the National league have big crowds then if it's not about the standard of rider ..why don't they have just juniors rather than Tai and co  next week at Cardiff ? after all using your logic the crowd would  be  the same .

This is a big  problem old people who are happy to watch anything and  think that is  how the rest of world think ..you can see why speedway has the problems it got , . anyhow I got a great plan lets cut the standard again so the crowds drop it's not worked for the last  20 years so lets try it again 

[Sidney the robin]

25 minutes ago, orion said:

So why don't the National league have big crowds then if it's not about the standard of rider ..why don't they have just juniors rather than Tai and co  next week at Cardiff ? after all using your logic the crowd would  be  the same .

This is a big  problem old people who are happy to watch anything and  think that is  how the rest of world think ..you can see why speedway has the problems it got , . anyhow I got a great plan lets cut the standard again so the crowds drop it's not worked for the last  20 years so lets try it again 

No you don't quite understand Speedway firstly it is about being entertained and hopefully the new customer coming back the next week.I am old but you are my age probably? ???? you are in cookoo land British speedway cannot afford to many W offinden/ etc riders end of.If we could great we cannot the days of the UK league  being the best has long gone but it does not mean our leagues cannot provide entertainment.

[foamfence]

23 minutes ago, orion said:

So why don't the National league have big crowds then if it's not about the standard of rider ..why don't they have just juniors rather than Tai and co  next week at Cardiff ? after all using your logic the crowd would  be  the same .

This is a big  problem old people who are happy to watch anything and  think that is  how the rest of world think ..you can see why speedway has the problems it got , . anyhow I got a great plan lets cut the standard again so the crowds drop it's not worked for the last  20 years so lets try it again 

We are simply debating opinions here but in mine I think if we splashed out on more top stars (especially when you consider their wage demands), you would get tracks closing at an even faster rate than now, it just wouldn't work, you either go with what you can afford or you go out of business, same on the high street where only the cheapo stores selling downmarket rubbish survive. Cardiff does well but it's a one off that has become a tradition for many but it isn't a patch on Belle Vue but even the international meetings there don't do brilliantly. Imagine Zmarzlik at Belle Vue (or any other track), you'd need an extra two to three thousand more just to pay his wages, you wouldn't get them, then look at the state of most stadiums and tracks, the majority need bulldozing and replacing.

[orion]

26 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

No you don't quite understand Speedway firstly it is about being entertained and hopefully the new customer coming back the next week.I am old but you are my age probably? ???? you are in cookoo land British speedway cannot afford to many W offinden/ etc riders end of.If we could great we cannot the days of the UK league  being the best has long gone but it does not mean our leagues cannot provide entertainment.

You said that its not about standard of rider that's brings in crowds .. so explain it that is the case when don't they have NL riders at riders at Cardiff rather that the top blokes after all look at the money they would save they could make a packet ? 

How comes hardly any one showed up the the Junior match they had at Swindon ?  after all no one cares who's riding or what standard it is .

Edited September 15, 2019 by orion

[orion]

4 minutes ago, foamfence said:

We are simply debating opinions here but in mine I think if we splashed out on more top stars (especially when you consider their wage demands), you would get tracks closing at an even faster rate than now, it just wouldn't work, you either go with what you can afford or you go out of business, same on the high street where only the cheapo stores selling downmarket rubbish survive. Cardiff does well but it's a one off that has become a tradition for many but it isn't a patch on Belle Vue but even the international meetings there don't do brilliantly. Imagine Zmarzlik at Belle Vue (or any other track), you'd need an extra two to three thousand more just to pay his wages, you wouldn't get them, then look at the state of most stadiums and tracks, the majority need bulldozing and replacing.

I never said anything the money side that is another debate ..but just to say that the standard of rider does not effect the crowd borders on madness ..only a speedway fan could come up with logic like that 

[Sidney the robin]

45 minutes ago, orion said:

You said that its not about standard of rider that's brings in crowds .. so explain it that is the case when don't they have NL riders at riders at Cardiff rather that the top blokes after all look at the money they would save they could make a packet ? 

How comes hardly any one showed up the the Junior match they had at Swindon ?  after all no one cares who's riding or what standard it is .

Well that shows just how much you know,  weren't  you there were you skint??? potless probably. Yes the National league has to be run around the fixture list as most people have not got a endless pit of money to spend  but it does not mean fans don't enjoy It .Woffinden turns up gets ihis 2/3 grand  a meeting  the crowd is hopefully??? 1,600/800 ??? do your sums it is not rocket science.!!!

[orion]

10 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Well that shows just how much you know,  weren't  you there were you skint??? potless probably. Yes the National league has to be run around the fixture list as most people have not got a endless pit of money to spend  but it does not mean fans don't enjoy It .Woffinden turns up gets ihis 2/3 grand  a meeting  the crowd is hopefully??? 1,600/800 ??? do your sums it is not rocket science.!!!

Yet again it not what you said no one even spoke about the money ..you said the standard of the rider makes no difference to the crowds ..so I ask again if NL rides  were riding at Cardiff next week would the crowd be the same ..it's not hard its just yes or no 

[Sidney the robin]

14 minutes ago, orion said:

Yet again it not what you said no one even spoke about the money ..you said the standard of the rider makes no difference to the crowds ..so I ask again if NL rides  were riding at Cardiff next week would the crowd be the same ..it's not hard its just yes or no 

You did say about the money you have never ever believed in the Championship/ Natinal league product you are a prem league tart  ,You    twist thing,'s  around you believe that the quality of rider rectifies thing's make more people turn up to meeting's maybe it does but i would rather every track pay within there means.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[foamfence]

18 minutes ago, orion said:

Yet again it not what you said no one even spoke about the money ..you said the standard of the rider makes no difference to the crowds ..so I ask again if NL rides  were riding at Cardiff next week would the crowd be the same ..it's not hard its just yes or no 

Cardiff is a unique event, if the league had to re-structure and teams had to lessen their averages, it might make a slight difference. Anyway It looks to be heading that way whatever changes are made. Land is too valuable, tracks are too inaccessible and people have different leisure priorities. I can see the day when about a dozen tracks hold meetings clustered around weekends and Bank Holidays, using riders who work in other jobs through the week. I don't think the sport will stop but I think it'll change greatly.

Edited September 15, 2019 by foamfence

[orion]

42 minutes ago, foamfence said:

Cardiff is a unique event, if the league had to re-structure and teams had to lessen their averages, it might make a slight difference. Anyway It looks to be heading that way whatever changes are made. Land is too valuable, tracks are too inaccessible and people have different leisure priorities. I can see the day when about a dozen tracks hold meetings clustered around weekends and Bank Holidays, using riders who work in other jobs through the week. I don't think the sport will stop but I think it'll change greatly.

if Cardiff was not a unique event it will still be all about who was riding .. Agree with your other points 

[Sings4Speedway]

2 hours ago, orion said:

Yet again it not what you said no one even spoke about the money ..you said the standard of the rider makes no difference to the crowds ..so I ask again if NL rides  were riding at Cardiff next week would the crowd be the same ..it's not hard its just yes or no 

I think the vast majority on here wanted Danny Ayres to be at Cardiff. I can assure you that had he got the wild card he would have brought more supporters than any other rider in the event so dont dump on the NL. There are plenty of CL tracks that would kill for crowd levels at some of the NL tracks so pointing at leagues and standards for the issue is a little off. 

[False dawn]

19 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

How has Hume performed this year False dawn?? no injuries which is great the odd fall here and there but overall what do you think.??

Danyon has developed well this year. He's had Ellis Perks as a target to shot at and the Thompson twins on the rise. But he has obviously responded positively to these challenges and is now very close to Ellis in the averages.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, False dawn said:

Danyon has developed well this year. He's had Ellis Perks as a target to shot at and the Thompson twins on the rise. But he has obviously responded positively to these challenges and is now very close to Ellis in the averages.

He is a championship rider and his average and circumstances have gone against him this year.But to achieve the average he has with not quite having the race sharpness is some achievement he actually has a higher home average than Ellis.

[mac101]

Danyon started well and just got better as the season progressed once he got regular riding doing extra  meeting and also got another engine mid season and seems to be working good for him he deserved a championship spot really but stuck with a high ave although  he had signed for one just before cut off date but another rider became available before he was dew to ride and lost the spot 

Edited September 16, 2019 by mac101

[mikebv]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 3:43 PM, Sidney the robin said:

Well that shows just how much you know,  weren't  you there were you skint??? potless probably. Yes the National league has to be run around the fixture list as most people have not got a endless pit of money to spend  but it does not mean fans don't enjoy It .Woffinden turns up gets ihis 2/3 grand  a meeting  the crowd is hopefully??? 1,600/800 ??? do your sums it is not rocket science.!!!

I would suggest the biggest % drop off in fans was from around 1995 to 2005..

Anecdotal evidence as it is but..

I stopped around 1995 and started again ten years later and was amazed at how crowds had dropped off..

And in that time Britain had a World Champ and all the world's best still rode here which suggests the level of rider isn't such a huge fan attraction..

I would suggest that the % drop in the past five years to ten years is way lower than the one for the timeline I mentioned..

Admittedly it is because crowds have been generally crap but it shows that the weakened product still attracts the die hards in reasonable numbers which can only be a positive for the sport if it wants to reduce costs by weakening again..

Bottom line is, you can't spend what you haven't got and most tracks look like they don't have much spare from what they pay out now. Therefore finding six grand a night (or maybe even more given they will have an expectation based on earnings elsewhere?) for two World Class No1 riders would be a 'tad' difficult I reckon..

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by mikebv

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

I would suggest the biggest % drop off in fans was from around 1995 to 2005..

Anecdotal evidence as it is but..

I stopped around 1995 and started again ten years later and was amazed at how crowds had dropped off..

And in that time Britain had a World Champ and all the world's best still rode here which suggests the level of rider isn't such a huge fan attraction..

I would suggest that the % drop in the past five years to ten years is way lower than the one for the timeline I mentioned..

Admittedly it is because crowds have been generally crap but it shows that the weakened product still attracts the die hards in reasonable numbers which can only be a positive for the sport if it wants to reduce costs by weakening again..

Bottom line is, you can't spend what you haven't got and most tracks look like they don't have much spare from what they pay out now. Therefore finding six grand a night (or maybe even more given they will have an expectation based on earnings elsewhere?) for two World Class No1 riders would be a 'tad' difficult I reckon..

 

What you said about the crowds really dropping off Mike is exactly right i believe in yesteryear getting a Mauger,Briggs,Olsen, turn up at your track really made a difference.Yet now in recent years even Woffinden at Wolves did not make that much difference on the gate and the extra fans money you did get soon got swallowed up by paying his wages. The sport has to go back to basics pay within your means and try and put a show on that everyone can enjoy.Bringing the big boys back in this climate is not the answer in my experience i can enjoy a NL meeting just as much as a Premiership meeting.