fatface Posted September 13, 2019 Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 On 9/11/2019 at 12:34 PM, TheReturn said: I don't have the answer, but I do not think giving him a wildcard is right without him earning it now (not based on the past 20 years). It's based on last year, the most recent we can go with, not 20 years ago. No one is saying it should be based on 20 years ago. 2018, 5th place, 7 points from 3rd, four times finallist. Still a prominent contender. Comfortably in the world top 15. End of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 9 hours ago, falcace said: 2018, 5th place, 7 points from 3rd, four times finallist. Still a prominent contender. Comfortably in the world top 15. End of. End of?  Right up there with people who end a discussion with 'fact'! 5th place in 2018 doesn't mean anything. Tai was 1st place last season and currently languishing in 14th and he only missed a couple of rounds. Let's be honest, he was never in contention in 2018. A wildcard would be a commercial rather than sporting decision I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted September 13, 2019 Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 When it comes to Greg, I think that Phil Rising said it best a few years ago when talking about a possible wildcard for a different rider, who was much younger than Greg.... "Look to the future. ****** is a lovely guy but frankly has had his time and does he really get the pulses racing..." As far as I can see, this fits perfectly for Greg... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor... Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Who was the *****.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iand Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 9 hours ago, TheReturn said: End of?  Right up there with people who end a discussion with 'fact'! 5th place in 2018 doesn't mean anything. Tai was 1st place last season and currently languishing in 14th and he only missed a couple of rounds. Let's be honest, he was never in contention in 2018. A wildcard would be a commercial rather than sporting decision I suspect. Tai 19pts off 8th place and as you say has only missed 2 rounds this year. Only averaging 8 a round so form wise has had a poor season, not top 8 standard but will surely get a wild card next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 On 9/14/2019 at 12:11 AM, TheReturn said: End of?  Right up there with people who end a discussion with 'fact'! 5th place in 2018 doesn't mean anything. Tai was 1st place last season and currently languishing in 14th and he only missed a couple of rounds. Let's be honest, he was never in contention in 2018. A wildcard would be a commercial rather than sporting decision I suspect. The first - and by far - most important consideration regarding riders who take part in the World Championship is "Do we have the world's top 15 riders?". Anything less than that as the primary consideration undermines its credibility. Dismiss 5th if you like, but it's well within the top 15 and were it not for this year's sad exceptional circumstances, there's every indication from his most recent form at league and World Championship level, he would still be up at the sharper end of the competition. If you can make a credible case that there are 15 riders in the world better than Greg Hancock, by all means have a crack. Make that case. I'd love to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, falcace said: If you can make a credible case that there are 15 riders in the world better than Greg Hancock, by all means have a crack He's not ridden in over a year, so there's no credible case to suggest he is capable of still being in the top 15 in the world as things stand right now. He might be that good still, but we simply so not know. A wildcard can NOT be justified taking time out and age into account. Still, I see Monster Energy have flown him over to Cardiff...doesn't hurt to remind BSI how popular Hancock is with some. Edited September 19, 2019 by TheReturn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, TheReturn said: He's not ridden in over a year, so there's no credible case to suggest he is capable of still being in the top 15 in the world as things stand right now. He might be that good still, but we simply so not know. A wildcard can NOT be justified taking time out and age into account. When you assume....etc. Because of his age, I assumed 10 years ago, he'd be long gone from the SGP. I was wrong. I assumed anyone deep into their 40s would no longer to be able to compete at the top level. I was wrong. If you base your assumptions (and you have) on speedway history and other riders, you are making a mistake. To repeat myself, there is no other rider in history doing what he has done at his age. He doesn't fit into any conventional template or graph you - or anyone else - might have in mind. Is he in the top 15 riders in the world still? If you don't believe he is, then I'll challenge you again, make the case for 15 riders being better than him. Name them. Make the case for Antonio Lindback, Janusz Kolodziej, Robert Lambert etc. If you truly believe he is no longer in the world's top 15, it should be very easy for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackett Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Woffinden Doyle Hancock - 1. If he doesn't retire this weekend. Laguta / Dudek / Zagar - depending on who drops out of the top 8 ....      Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, Hackett said: Woffinden Doyle Hancock - 1. If he doesn't retire this weekend. Laguta / Dudek / Zagar - depending on who drops out of the top 8 ....      Zagar has already qualified, via the Challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 On 9/14/2019 at 12:11 AM, TheReturn said: End of?  Right up there with people who end a discussion with 'fact'! 5th place in 2018 doesn't mean anything. Tai was 1st place last season and currently languishing in 14th and he only missed a couple of rounds. Let's be honest, he was never in contention in 2018. A wildcard would be a commercial rather than sporting decision I suspect. As I think they all are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: As I think they all are. Ok, well let's hear of your 15 better riders than, given that ALL the GP riders are chosen on commercial grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 On 9/14/2019 at 10:16 AM, iand said: Tai 19pts off 8th place and as you say has only missed 2 rounds this year. Only averaging 8 a round so form wise has had a poor season, not top 8 standard but will surely get a wild card next year. So if Tai had 16 more points for the two rounds he's missed, he'd be 3 off 8th place. One race win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 I'd pick Woffinden, Doyle, Michelsen and Lambert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ghostwalker said: I'd pick Woffinden, Doyle, Michelsen and Lambert. Wouldn't pick the latter two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iand Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 hour ago, False dawn said: So if Tai had 16 more points for the two rounds he's missed, he'd be 3 off 8th place. One race win. I believe Tai has only managed 1 heat win all season..still believe he is not top 8 standard this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, iand said: I believe Tai has only managed 1 heat win all season..still believe he is not top 8 standard this year He’s top 15 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 5 hours ago, falcace said: Ok, well let's hear of your 15 better riders than, given that ALL the GP riders are chosen on commercial grounds. Huh? Who said that - not me. Instead of jumping into confrontation, maybe consider the topic was wildcards, not the whole field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 11 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said: Huh? Who said that - not me. Instead of jumping into confrontation, maybe consider the topic was wildcards, not the whole field. I apologise. I misread the meaning of your post, I believed you were referring to all 15. Hands up. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 12 hours ago, falcace said: I apologise. I misread the meaning of your post, I believed you were referring to all 15. Hands up. Sorry. No problem, thanks for reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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