2020 Wildcards

[racers and royals]

11 minutes ago, tarkens said:

substitute riders: Smolinski, Michelsen, Smektala, Thomsen, Aspgren, Berge

why Smektala, not Drabik?
why Smolinski, not Huckenback?
 

Because Smolinski was in the Challenge final and Huckenbeck wasn`t

[James Carter]

13 minutes ago, tarkens said:

substitute riders: Smolinski, Michelsen, Smektala, Thomsen, Aspgren, Berge

why Smektala, not Drabik?
why Smolinski, not Huckenback?
 

Imagine Smolinski got the nod as he got further in the sgp challenge

[OveFundinFan]

I'm ok with Smektala, actually I think he is a better racer then Drabik.

This year was an unusual year that gave Lambert a massive opportunity to ride a full season - was only an injury that stopped that, and Fricke also got a good number of meetings on the trot due to injuries of others.  Always a possibility of a very quiet year for series reserves.

[Gavan]

Having a closer look at Lindbacks record this season it isnt that bad

9 GP's

5 semi finals......unable to make a final..........and only missed another semi final on countback on 8 points........2 poor gp's in Slovenia and Czech

Laguta only made 3 semi finals

Iversen made 4 semis but converted that into 3 finals

Zagar made 4 semis and converted 2 into finals

Could any other newcomer have the level of consistency that Lindback has shown?

Granted Lindback is unlikely to threaten the top 6 but would any of Drabik, Smektala or Lambert do so or even Michelsen?

As i said someone has to come 12th or 13th

 

[f-s-p]

1 hour ago, James Carter said:

Lindback shouldn't have got a pick. Is that a Monster energy pick? Can't remember if he's Monster sponsored or not

Clearly Laguta version 2.0 would bring so much more but perhaps after his ban he's still in the cooling off period

It's still a great line up though. 

 

Lindbäck is or was on another drink label after Monster dropped him.

I’ve got no problem with Smolinski being on list, but why is he 1st on it...

Edited October 7, 2019 by f-s-p

[chunky]

1 hour ago, lucifer sam said:

I don't think he is amongst the best 15 riders in the world - the Polish averages posted seem to confirm that. Drabik and Michelsen have had more successful seasons and one of them should have been given the opportunity.

I get what you're saying, but should we base World Championships on league averages? Again, I would personally have gone for Michelsen over Lindback, but that doesn't mean that I clearly believe that Michelsen is one of the top 15 riders in the world, or that Lindback isn't.

Of course, it's all conjecture, but would Drabik or Michelsen have finished higher in the GP standings this year? Personally, I don't think so, which means that you can't really argue against Lindback's inclusion for 2020.

Again, it shouldn't just come down to league averages. Three of the absolute best (highest averages) and most consistent riders in the then-strongest league in the world were the Boococks and Ray Wilson - and between them, how many times did they mount a serious challenge for even a rostrum place, let alone a World title? Taking Eric Boocock, a consistent 10.5/11.00 average rider in the BL over a prolonged period of time, and most of the time, he struggled to reach the latter stages of the World Championship.

League averages can be used as PART of the ranking process, but really can't be used as a true reflection of world class.

[Ghostwalker]

18 hours ago, racers and royals said:

GP qualifiers and Challenge final ?  Cook scored 1 more than Michelsen in Gorican- i don`t see many who wanted Cook in it for 2020.

Not sure I agree with that, especially since Aspgren almost qualified this year and we've seen Ljung, Smolinski, Zetterström, Harris and Cook qualify previous
years so just because someone has a good day I wouldn't say that it automatically makes them top 15 in the world.
A one off meeting also depends on which track it is held at. Different tracks suits different riders. Some tracks suits gaters and some tracks suits racers.
IMO there isn't such as a thing as the best 15 in the world. Bartosz, Emil Leon and Tai are a little group of their own in the top.
LIndgren, Dudek, Janowski, Vaculik, Janowski, Doyle, Greg and Laguta brothers are in a group behind the top 4.
Then there is a large group of riders that are of similar capacity and sometimes some of them might be in the second group and some
of them might sometimes be in "group 4".

As for Greg he is nowaday IMO, like Hampel, to reliant on his gating and does well when he first from the tapes but not so well when he doesn't gate.

Just for the record here is top 15 from Swedish Elitserien (Emil and Leon and Zagar didn''t ride in Elitserien 2019):
http://old.svemo.se/sv/Grenar/Speedway/Elitserien2019/Snittlista/
1.     Bartosz Zmarzlik
2.     Artem Laguta
3.     Tai Woffinden
4.     Mikkel Michelsen
5.     Maciej Janowski
6.     Nicki Pedersen
7.     Fredrik Lindgren
8.     Maksym Drabik
9.     Chris Holder
10.     Jason Doyle
11.     Dominik Kubera
12.     Gleb Chugunov
13.     Niels-Kristian Iversen
14.     Piotr Pawlicki
15.     Jack Holder

[Mr Blobby]

2 hours ago, tarkens said:

substitute riders: Smolinski, Michelsen, Smektala, Thomsen, Aspgren, Berge

why Smektala, not Drabik?
why Smolinski, not Huckenback?
 

Smolinski and berge shouldn’t of even been considered never mind picked. 

Michelsen should be first in line imo.

[RPNY]

12 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

Smolinski and berge shouldn’t of even been considered never mind picked. 

Michelsen should be first in line imo.

I agree with Michelsen. Smolenski however was essentially robbed after having a clear race win taken off of him by flag mans mistake at the GP Challenge.

[RobMcCaffery]

40 minutes ago, Ghostwalker said:

Not sure I agree with that, especially since Aspgren almost qualified this year and we've seen Ljung, Smolinski, Zetterström, Harris and Cook qualify previous
years so just because someone has a good day I wouldn't say that it automatically makes them top 15 in the world.
A one off meeting also depends on which track it is held at. Different tracks suits different riders. Some tracks suits gaters and some tracks suits racers.
IMO there isn't such as a thing as the best 15 in the world. Bartosz, Emil Leon and Tai are a little group of their own in the top.
LIndgren, Dudek, Janowski, Vaculik, Janowski, Doyle, Greg and Laguta brothers are in a group behind the top 4.
Then there is a large group of riders that are of similar capacity and sometimes some of them might be in the second group and some
of them might sometimes be in "group 4".

As for Greg he is nowaday IMO, like Hampel, to reliant on his gating and does well when he first from the tapes but not so well when he doesn't gate.

Just for the record here is top 15 from Swedish Elitserien (Emil and Leon and Zagar didn''t ride in Elitserien 2019):
http://old.svemo.se/sv/Grenar/Speedway/Elitserien2019/Snittlista/
1.     Bartosz Zmarzlik
2.     Artem Laguta
3.     Tai Woffinden
4.     Mikkel Michelsen
5.     Maciej Janowski
6.     Nicki Pedersen
7.     Fredrik Lindgren
8.     Maksym Drabik
9.     Chris Holder
10.     Jason Doyle
11.     Dominik Kubera
12.     Gleb Chugunov
13.     Niels-Kristian Iversen
14.     Piotr Pawlicki
15.     Jack Holder

Thanks. Interesting to see Drabik as third-ranked Pole in Sweden as well as in his home country with CMAs of 7.88 and 8.54 in each. Obviously riding as a junior in Poland and getting a soft heat in 2 in most matches helped his domestic average but it does illustrate his progress, finishing well above Dudek in both cases. It does make you wonder if Dudek hadn't secured a place in the top 8 in his final ride in Torun whether he might have lost out to Drabik for the third Pole wildcard? 

I agree with the surprise about Lindback but perhaps it was inevitable that BSI would want a second (spare?) Swede in the lineup. Mind you, they're happy enough to have one Brit. So much for the Poles' allegations of BSI favouring British interests.....

Hancock qualified comfortably for the 2019 series. Allowing him to delay a year while he helped his wife battle breast cancer is basic human decency, even if the obsessed may have some problem with it.

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by RobMcCaffery

[James Carter]

Zmarzlik Swedish average is 11.16 in old money. That's incredible

Would not surprise me if he went on to be world champion

[chunky]

1 hour ago, RobMcCaffery said:

It does make you wonder if Dudek hadn't secured a place in the top 8 in his final ride in Torun whether he might have lost out to Drabik for the third Pole wildcard? 

I agree with the surprise about Lindback but perhaps it was inevitable that BSI would want a second (spare?) Swede in the lineup. 

Dudek missing out could really have changed things, and honestly, I thought he was on his way out. Had he failed, I do think that he would have been out and replaced by another Pole.

Everything I said about Lindback...

[Welwyn]

3 out of 4 are right. I think in order they should have been:

Hancock - Finished 5th in 2018 & only 7 points off a medal. I frankly think it's disgusting for anyone to suggest that he should lose his place to do what he has done this year. If you didn't give Hancock a wildcard you would set a dangerous future precedent that would affect other riders decisions if faced with a similar issue in future and could seriously mess with their mental health. Sure, he may be affected by the year out and his age but that is just guesswork by anyone. Maybe we get to know it was the wrong decision by Turn 1, Heat 1, GP1 next year if he is tentative into it but we don't know that.

Woffinden - Would have him at no.1 as 2018 Champion and he did miss 2 GP's but his performances in the ones he was in (just 1 double figure score) means Hancock deserves one more.

Mikkelsen - Thought he would get it after Dudek beat Iversen to eighth and stopped Thomsen qualifying. Definitely deserved it as SEC Champion and his league form has been on point. 

A. Laguta - Always competitive, even if not the most exciting. World Pairs winner (and certainly an equal partner in that victory). Doubt too many would question he id top 15 in the world even if not that exciting.

If they really wanted a Swede, I thought they might give it to Pontus as he almost certainly would have qualified if it wasn't for that engine failure and If I extended this list to a top 10 or so, he would have been my highest ranked Swede in that list. Not because he is the 2nd best Swede but because that performance deserved it more than any other Swede.

[Terry]

Third charity pick for Woffinden. Hmm, turning into the next Harris methinks..

[RobMcCaffery]

3 hours ago, chunky said:

Dudek missing out could really have changed things, and honestly, I thought he was on his way out. Had he failed, I do think that he would have been out and replaced by another Pole.

Everything I said about Lindback...

It was remarkable how he woke up in that final ride, as if he had only just realised the peril he was in - and then how, having set a target, his rivals all failed to better it in their final rides. His form in Poland and Sweden has been poor of late so there's obviously something wrong. 

[FAST GATER]

9 hours ago, Terry said:

Third charity pick for Woffinden. Hmm, turning into the next Harris methinks..

A bit harsh but I must admit that it had crossed my mind whether Woffy will be the rider he was big injury ,3 titles ,young family ,plenty of kite in the bank and coming up to 30 yrs old( not that old but some riders just seem to go off at that age )  but he deserves his w/card IMO.

[Terry]

52 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

A bit harsh but I must admit that it had crossed my mind whether Woffy will be the rider he was big injury ,3 titles ,young family ,plenty of kite in the bank and coming up to 30 yrs old( not that old but some riders just seem to go off at that age )  but he deserves his w/card IMO.

Yeah a light-hearted comment (hence the wink!) However, putting on my serious expression I've always hated these 'four free passes' that they hand out each year.

I remember in the early years of the series all of the riders had to qualify and if you missed out, tough.Tomasz Gollob didn't get seeded into the 96 series, even though there were no Polish qualifiers and, believe it or not, 6 Brits!

That's how it was until 99 when Billy Hamill got a season-long pass.

I think everybody knows Lindback only got his place because of his nationality.

 

[TheReturn]

19 hours ago, Welwyn said:

Hancock - Finished 5th in 2018 & only 7 points off a medal. I frankly think it's disgusting for anyone to suggest that he should lose his place to do what he has done this year. If you didn't give Hancock a wildcard you would set a dangerous future precedent that would affect other riders decisions if faced with a similar issue in future and could seriously mess with their mental health. Sure, he may be affected by the year out and his age but that is just guesswork by anyone. Maybe we get to know it was the wrong decision by Turn 1, Heat 1, GP1 next year if he is tentative into it but we don't know that.

Have a word with yourself.  It's not disgusting at all to question the decision.   Yes he finished 5th in 2018, and is a former world champion, so what?  By the start of the first 2020 GP that will be what, 18ish months later?  Which brings me back to the point I have been making, somebody has decided that Hancock is still amongst the best 15 riders in the world, but based on what?  It's not based on speed, averages, 2019 results, it's based on marketing and/or nostalgia and that's a dangerous precedent to set for what is meant to be the best of the best. 

 

8 hours ago, Terry said:

I remember in the early years of the series all of the riders had to qualify and if you missed out, tough.Tomasz Gollob didn't get seeded into the 96 series, even though there were no Polish qualifiers and, believe it or not, 6 Brits!

This....

Sometimes injuries and bad luck mean you will not get your seat at the top table.  A real sportsperson would want to prove themselves by qualifying, not by being gifted.   

If wildcards have to be offered, they should only be offered for a qualification meeting, not the series itself. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by TheReturn

[OveFundinFan]

56 minutes ago, TheReturn said:

Have a word with yourself.  It's not disgusting at all to question the decision.   Yes he finished 5th in 2018, and is a former world champion, so what?  By the start of the first 2020 GP that will be what, 18ish months later?  Which brings me back to the point I have been making, somebody has decided that Hancock is still amongst the best 15 riders in the world, but based on what?  It's not based on speed, averages, 2019 results, it's based on marketing and/or nostalgia and that's a dangerous precedent to set for what is meant to be the best of the best. 

 

This....

Sometimes injuries and bad luck mean you will not get your seat at the top table.  A real sportsperson would want to prove themselves by qualifying, not by being gifted.   

If wildcards have to be offered, they should only be offered for a qualification meeting, not the series itself. 

But thats not the current rules, so that argument is ruled out

You just dont like him, thats ok, just say so, no problem.

[iwright71]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 12:19 PM, lucifer sam said:

The big surprise has to be Lindback, simply because of the 13-point chasm between the riders in the eleventh and twelfth places. In short, Lindback was an also ran for the majority of this year’s series. Excluding Greg (out the whole year) and Woffy (injured and then coming back from injury), Lindback was the second worst rider in this year’s series, ahead of only Kolodziej.  Odd that he’s been included, ahead of the likes of Drabik and Michelsen, who clearly showed better form in 2019.

With 14 of the same permanent 15 riders as 2019, the GP is in danger of becoming a closed shop. Even “the new face” (Fricke) rode in half of this year’s series as second reserve rider.

It needed at least one fresh face. Drabik or Michelsen would have provided that.

I'm sure Phil Rising will give us a rigorous defence to the wisdom of BSI picking Antonio Lindback as a wildcard. The asperation might be to pick the best 4 riders but unfortunately they also have to come from the right part of the World. Lindback has been selected because BSI need more than 1 Swede in the field having to sell 2 GP's in far flung Swedish venues  almost devoid of travelling fans. Antonio has had a good run in the GP, and has won GP's but rarely challenges the top 8. There were other , better options, The other Laguta,, Michelsen to name 2. But unfortunately the GP has always been run on a quota system.