chunky Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, BWitcher said: What you mean to say is there is literally zero evidence that he ISN'T capable of competing. There's 30 odd years of evidence stating that he IS capable of competing. Nah, if somebody is out of action for more than a month or so, just forget about them, they're done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: Absolutely. But we should be getting seven or eight rounds like that every year. And could do if they used better circuits. A blend of better and more accessible circuits. Lets face it there are plenty who love Cardiff but consider it far too expensive and are looking at / travelling to the other rounds. However the Polish rounds can be travelled to easily, Prague obviously but racing can be dull. Then there is Slovenia & Germany which are a mare to get to and the expensive Nordics. If venues are considered that are easier to travel to then atmosphere will increase in them all and that will reverberate to the riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czechhero Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 If Hancock carries on drinking Monster at the rate he used to, he’ll spend more time in the toilets than out on track! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Not a Hancock fan by any means, but to say he doesnt deserve to be in is ridiculous, his record speaks for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) I cant believe the things that some people say on here About how boring next years series will be People wanting the likes of Drabik, Smektala and Lambert because they are young and will 'add something'. What will they add apart from in all liklihood being the bottom 3 in the series ALL riders have a chance to qualify..............the likes of Zagar and Iversen proving they are the better riders than the supposed young riders. Michelsen is a possibility but he had hos chance and got 5 in the challenge..........and in Vojens he hardly pulled up any trees scored 6....3 points less than Lindback Wouldnt have worried me if it was MIchelsen or Lindback........... Someone has to come 12th and 13th and if those riders who are 12th and 13th are better than the 'young guns' then they need to be in. Nobody can turn round and say that next season we dont have the worlds best 15 riders. Edited October 7, 2019 by Gavan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrow Boy 2 Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Simple really. They usually re-invite the 9th and 10 riders back in but this time they are already in via the challenge so they have gone for 11th and 12th instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocha Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Barrow Boy 2 said: Simple really. They usually re-invite the 9th and 10 riders back in but this time they are already in via the challenge so they have gone for 11th and 12th instead. I expect they looked at the three riders finishing fifth in the challenge, Asprgen, Loktaev and Thomsen, then quite rightly concluded Lindback was the better choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted October 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, Gavan said: People wanting the likes of Drabik, Smektala and Lambert because they are young and will 'add something'. What will they add apart from in all liklihood being the bottom 3 in the series I seem to recall some said that about Woffy the year he was given a wildcard. Lambert always looked well on the pace this year, and had he been given a wildcard and a full winter to prepare and perhaps less meetings then who knows maybe he would be more competitive. But no, they have given it a 50 year old rider whose not ridden competitively in what 12+ months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarkens Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, iainb said: Who are the top 16 riders in the Polish League? You shouldn't really be looking too far away from those to find out the best rider in the world 1. Madsen (2nd in GP) 2. Zmarzlik (1st) 3. Sajfutdinow (3rd) (amazingly, also the top three in GP series) 4. Vaculik (5th) 5. A. Laguta (11th) 6. Doyle (7th) 7. Kolodziej (14th) 8. Woffinden (13th) 9. G. Laguta (-) 10. Drabik (-) 11. Pi. Pawlicki (-) 12. Pedersen (-) 13. Michelsen (-) 14. Bjerre (-) 15. Janowski (6th) 16. Wozniak (-) 17. Dudek (8th) 18. Lindgren (4th) 21. Fricke (GP 2020) 24. Iversen (10th) 25. Zagar (9th) 33. Lindback (12th) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, Gavan said: I cant believe the things that some people say on here About how boring next years series will be People wanting the likes of Drabik, Smektala and Lambert because they are young and will 'add something'. What will they add apart from in all liklihood being the bottom 3 in the series ALL riders have a chance to qualify..............the likes of Zagar and Iversen proving they are the better riders than the supposed young riders. Michelsen is a possibility but he had hos chance and got 5 in the challenge..........and in Vojens he hardly pulled up any trees scored 6....3 points less than Lindback Wouldnt have worried me if it was MIchelsen or Lindback........... Someone has to come 12th and 13th and if those riders who are 12th and 13th are better than the 'young guns' then they need to be in. Nobody can turn round and say that next season we dont have the worlds best 15 riders. I also feel the GPs need shaking up - maybe less rounds, or new faces. It does feel like we're watching the same guys racing too many times and the results in one meeting have less significance to the title overall because there are a lot of rounds. However, it is a commercial enterprise so understand they need to maximise income. If, as you suggest, they give wildcards to 9/10th or this year 11/12th then why not simply make it the top 10 of those not already qualified? I think it's more to do with the countries they represent and for me, Laguta is as dull as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) The big surprise has to be Lindback, simply because of the 13-point chasm between the riders in the eleventh and twelfth places. In short, Lindback was an also ran for the majority of this year’s series. Excluding Greg (out the whole year) and Woffy (injured and then coming back from injury), Lindback was the second worst rider in this year’s series, ahead of only Kolodziej. Odd that he’s been included, ahead of the likes of Drabik and Michelsen, who clearly showed better form in 2019. With 14 of the same permanent 15 riders as 2019, the GP is in danger of becoming a closed shop. Even “the new face” (Fricke) rode in half of this year’s series as second reserve rider. It needed at least one fresh face. Drabik or Michelsen would have provided that. Edited October 7, 2019 by lucifer sam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Always going to be contentious issue on who they pick ,they should be concentrating on picking better tracks IMO.Give the riders a decent track and you will get some cracking racing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I think its fair to say that as much as most of us are in agreement that Lindback is lucky to get a pick, he hasn't been chosen in front of a possible title contender, he's been picked over younger riders who would mostly likely finish a few places above or below 8th place. So yes not a brilliant pick but also hardly complete travesty. averaged 7 points a GP, make a decent amount of semis. Not a huge fan of his, but I dont think its a complete travesty. RE Hancock, he's deserved this wild card at the absolute very least. Despite his age and time out, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't competitive. If he isn't he will bow out gracefully. Thats the kind of guy he is. Laguta, well Id prefer his brother but is is Artem one of the best 15 riders in the world? I think most would agree absolutely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 hours ago, TheReturn said: I seem to recall some said that about Woffy the year he was given a wildcard. Lambert always looked well on the pace this year, and had he been given a wildcard and a full winter to prepare and perhaps less meetings then who knows maybe he would be more competitive. But no, they have given it a 50 year old rider whose not ridden competitively in what 12+ months? I cant take you seriously if you dont think Hancock deserves a wildcard 99% of people on here agree with the first 3 its only Lindback people questioning Im not Hancocks biggest fan but he 100% deserves a wildcard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, chunky said: It's funny, looking at some of the comments on these threads (not just this particular one)... Some don't want Hancock because he's old. Some don't want Hancock because he's "boring". Some don't want Lindback because he's "never finished higher than seventh". Some don't want Iversen and Zagar because "they don't add anything". Some don't want Laguta because he is "just a gater". Some want a bunch of youngsters, just because "they are the future". The thing to remember is that this is the World Championship. Unlike the old system, the GP series is actually designed to include the best 15 riders in the world, and surely, that SHOULD be a goal of ANY world championship. World championships are designed to find the best right now, not those who will be competing ten years down the road. No, it's not going to be perfect, as nothing ever is. There will always be questions. Yes, personally, I would like to have seen Michelsen in place of Lindback, but can ANYONE state categorically that the line-up for 2020 doesn't include - or at least come damn close to including - all the best riders in the world? Steve 100% correct. The World Championship is the here and now of the best in the world. Simple. Despite being challenged on multiple occasions, I have yet to see any naysayer list 15 riders who they can credibly argue are better than Greg Hancock...and at this stage, it's fair to assume, they are permanently swerving the question. Why? Because it would expose the futility of their argument. I'm sure the day will come when Greg Hancock is not among the world's elite, but until we see that on track, we cannot say when that is. He comfortably qualified for this year's series and understandably could not take up the opportunity. And for the umpteenth time - and at the risk of boring myself - we cannot judge this guy on what has gone before because what he is doing is unprecedented. There is no-one in speedway history who has been a proven winner deep into his forties. Even Ivan Mauger, that other great mould-breaker was tootling around on his farewell tour aged 45. What was Greg Hancock doing...he was one year shy of his fourth World Title. Edited October 7, 2019 by falcace 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Gavan said: Someone has to come 12th and 13th and if those riders who are 12th and 13th are better than the 'young guns' then they need to be in. Absolutely. In the harshest terms, guys like Chris Morton, Mitch Shirra, Ronnie Correy clocked up a few World Final appearances between them and none of them ever got on the rostrum or contended. But they were among the best in the world in their time and merited their place. Would people have rather seen Andy Smith, David Bargh and Charles Ermolenko or other "up and comers" of the time in their place? It's about being good enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) Greg is amazing, but he's go some to catch up Posa Serenius. World Champion for the second time at the age of 54, and eventually kicked out of the series at the age of 61, after needing beta-blockers to keep on going and they're on the banned list. And yes, there is yes less depth in Ice Racing, but to beat the top Russians on their sponsored machinery at the age of 54 is still amazing. So maybe Greg's not quite finished after all I agree the only really contentious wildcard is Lindback. That seems daft based on the 10 Grand Prix from this year. It's not like there isn't already another Swede in the series. I don't think he is amongst the best 15 riders in the world - the Polish averages posted seem to confirm that. Drabik and Michelsen have had more successful seasons and one of them should have been given the opportunity. Edited October 7, 2019 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: Greg is amazing, but he's go some to catch up Posa Serenius. World Champion for the second time at the age of 54, and eventually kicked out of the series at the age of 61, after needing beta-blockers to keep on going and they're on the banned list. And yes, there is yes less depth in Ice Racing, but to beat the top Russians on their sponsored machinery at the age of 54 is still amazing. So maybe Greg's not quite finished after all I agree the only really contentious wildcard is Lindback. That seems daft based on the 10 Grand Prix from this year. It's not like there isn't already another Swede in the series. You know, I doubt Greg Hancock will win a fifth title. But I wouldn't put my life on it. I've been wrong about him too many times in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Carter Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Lindback shouldn't have got a pick. Is that a Monster energy pick? Can't remember if he's Monster sponsored or not Clearly Laguta version 2.0 would bring so much more but perhaps after his ban he's still in the cooling off period It's still a great line up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarkens Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) substitute riders: Smolinski, Michelsen, Smektala, Thomsen, Aspgren, Berge why Smektala, not Drabik? why Smolinski, not Huckenback? Edited October 7, 2019 by tarkens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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