2020 Wildcards

[TheReturn]

They were talking about 2020 wildcards at the weekend.  I assume Tai would get one.  Doyle is now top 8, he's making good progress and may not need one, but if he did I would assume Doyle would be given one.  So who else would be offered one?

Lambert's struggled of late, but always seem well on the pace. Another Brit in the series would be nice, but would he be considered a top rider worthy of a place?  Bit too early for him to be offered one?  

I was surprised Scott talked about Hancock.  This is said with respect to the devastating illness to his wife, he's been out for an entire season and we've seen a much younger Tai struggle with just a couple of months out. We're seeing a new wave of young riders come through, I truly do not think the GP's have missed Hancock this season, and with his age I am not convinced giving him a wildcard would be in the best interests of the future GP series. 

So... thoughts? 

Edited September 9, 2019 by TheReturn

[racers and royals]

Iversen and Zagar getting in the top 8 would really put the cat among the pigeons as far as who gets them- far better if they are both out of the top 8 after Torun 

[fatface]

34 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Iversen and Zagar getting in the top 8 would really put the cat among the pigeons as far as who gets them- far better if they are both out of the top 8 after Torun 

Why? Would it mean 9th and 10th get automatic places instead? Or would it be the next two from the Challenge? Genuinely don't know....so would appreciate an explanation.

As for Greg Hancock, he might not be everyone's most thrill-a-minute racer. But on pure numbers alone, he is one of the SGP's best ever riders. And he qualified on merit for this year's series, so, should there should be a place for him....if he wants it that is. 

[racers and royals]

1 minute ago, falcace said:

Why? Would it mean 9th and 10th get automatic places instead? Or would it be the next two from the Challenge? Genuinely don't know....so would appreciate an explanation.

As for Greg Hancock, he might not be everyone's most thrill-a-minute racer. But on pure numbers alone, he is one of the SGP's best ever riders. And he qualified on merit for this year's series, so, should there should be a place for him....if he wants it that is. 

It would mean that the extra places come from the challenge- Vaculik, Thomsen and then Aspgren. That means even more decent riders would be outside top 8 and only 4 wildcards.

[HGould]

1 hour ago, TheReturn said:

They were talking about 2020 wildcards at the weekend.  I assume Tai would get one.  Doyle is now top 8, he's making good progress and may not need one, but if he did I would assume Doyle would be given one.  So who else would be offered one?

Lambert's struggled of late, but always seem well on the pace. Another Brit in the series would be nice, but would he be considered a top rider worthy of a place?  Bit too early for him to be offered one?  

I was surprised Scott talked about Hancock.  This is said with respect to the devastating illness to his wife, he's been out for an entire season and we've seen a much younger Tai struggle with just a couple of months out. We're seeing a new wave of young riders come through, I truly do not think the GP's have missed Hancock this season, and with his age I am not convinced giving him a wildcard would be in the best interests of the future GP series. 

So... thoughts? 

Agree entirely about Hancock. Great rider and servant to the sport but a year out at 50 (for all the right and laudable reasons) is a bit like Formula 1 inviting a 60 year old driver back for a "farewell season". It would devalue the series in my opinion.

Better if they wish to "celebrate Greg" to allow him to race and get fit at a decent level in Sweden and then give him a few wild card picks or injury replacement picks in Countries where he is most popular.  

[fatface]

4 minutes ago, HGould said:

Agree entirely about Hancock. Great rider and servant to the sport but a year out at 50 (for all the right and laudable reasons) is a bit like Formula 1 inviting a 60 year old driver back for a "farewell season". It would devalue the series in my opinion.

Better if they wish to "celebrate Greg" to allow him to race and get fit at a decent level in Sweden and then give him a few wild card picks or injury replacement picks in Countries where he is most popular.  

The point I would make though is that a fit, healthy and happy Hancock still merits his status as a contender. Whether he's nearly 50 or not, is neither here nor there. I speak as someone who had (wrongly) written him off a good 10 years ago. Like him or not, he has rewritten what can and can't be done several times over. And in last year's GP season, he was 5th, just 7 points shy of the bronze medal with four finals appearances across the season.

Until he has a poor season outside the top 8 or misses several GP seasons due to his family's terrible circumstances, I think there has to be a place for him - if he wants it. He's earned that right.

[HGould]

2 minutes ago, falcace said:

The point I would make though is that a fit, healthy and happy Hancock still merits his status as a contender. Whether he's nearly 50 or not, is neither here nor there. I speak as someone who had (wrongly) written him off a good 10 years ago. Like him or not, he has rewritten what can and can't be done several times over. And in last year's GP season, he was 5th, just 7 points shy of the bronze medal with four finals appearances across the season.

Until he has a poor season outside the top 8 or misses several GP seasons due to his family's terrible circumstances, I think there has to be a place for him - if he wants it. He's earned that right.

we'll have to agree to disagree, for me it's not about personaility but more direction I think SGP needs to be looking to go in with more vibrant young blood.

$64,000 question is "where is that young blood".

Or more "Madsens" peaking later but becoming very effective later in career like Doyle before him.

 

[fatface]

34 minutes ago, HGould said:

we'll have to agree to disagree, for me it's not about personaility but more direction I think SGP needs to be looking to go in with more vibrant young blood.

$64,000 question is "where is that young blood".

Or more "Madsens" peaking later but becoming very effective later in career like Doyle before him.

 

Yes, I share the appetite for exciting young blood in the GP...you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on this forum who doesn't want that.

But the integrity of a World Championship comes first and foremost and speaking purely objectively, Greg Hancock still merits a position amongst the top of the world speedway. Subjectively, I'd love to see Nicki Pedersen still involved getting into the odd scrape and stirring the pot. But I can't make a credible case for him being at the very top level anymore and it's right that he is not in the mix now.

[Mark]

2 hours ago, TheReturn said:

They were talking about 2020 wildcards at the weekend.  I assume Tai would get one.  Doyle is now top 8, he's making good progress and may not need one, but if he did I would assume Doyle would be given one.  So who else would be offered one?

Lambert's struggled of late, but always seem well on the pace. Another Brit in the series would be nice, but would he be considered a top rider worthy of a place?  Bit too early for him to be offered one?  

I was surprised Scott talked about Hancock.  This is said with respect to the devastating illness to his wife, he's been out for an entire season and we've seen a much younger Tai struggle with just a couple of months out. We're seeing a new wave of young riders come through, I truly do not think the GP's have missed Hancock this season, and with his age I am not convinced giving him a wildcard would be in the best interests of the future GP series. 

So... thoughts? 

Doyle is 11th but he should get a card.    I would not have Hancock in the 2020 series but allow him two wildcards at big stadiums to say goodbye.  Who could deny him having been a great GP rider over the last 50 years.    I am not a fan of Hancock but it would be a good end to his GP career with no pressure.  Warsaw and Vojens would me my two picks for his swansong. 

Lambert is not ready yet.  Scoring 31 points from 6 GP's show he is below the standard.   He would sit out 2020 on my list but a really exciting prospect for a couple of years down the line.. 

[wealdstone]

Having had  a year out , I do not see  at his age Hancock  ever getting back to the levels required for a GP

[Fromafar]

4 hours ago, TheReturn said:

They were talking about 2020 wildcards at the weekend.  I assume Tai would get one.  Doyle is now top 8, he's making good progress and may not need one, but if he did I would assume Doyle would be given one.  So who else would be offered one?

Lambert's struggled of late, but always seem well on the pace. Another Brit in the series would be nice, but would he be considered a top rider worthy of a place?  Bit too early for him to be offered one?  

I was surprised Scott talked about Hancock.  This is said with respect to the devastating illness to his wife, he's been out for an entire season and we've seen a much younger Tai struggle with just a couple of months out. We're seeing a new wave of young riders come through, I truly do not think the GP's have missed Hancock this season, and with his age I am not convinced giving him a wildcard would be in the best interests of the future GP series. 

So... thoughts? 

Doyle is not Top 8 yet!

[Gavan]

I firmly believe that no matter what happens in the last 2 rounds that Tai and Hancock will be offered 2 of them

Im not Hancocks biggest fan but i want the best riders in there....age is irrelevant ...and after the career he has had then i would think it justified to give him a spot

Artem Laguta has shown enough for me to get a pick should he need one

It goes without saying that Doyle , if needed, will get one.

I think Kolodziej, unless he has 2 magnificent rounds will not get one..... yes he has won a gp but he doesnt do much else in most meetings

Lindback to i doubt will get a wildcard

All this talk about 'to young' 'to soon' 'will be outclassed' is absolute rubbish............a rider has to come 14th or 15th like Lindback this year.

Are you ever going to get 15 riders all capable of being world champion? No

So if a place comes for say Lambert or Aspgren then so be it

My ideal GP field for next season:

Zmarzlik

Emil

Madsen

Lindgren

Vaculik

Janowski

Dudek

Zagar

Iversen

Fricke

Doyle

Laguta

Woffinden

Hancock

One of Lambert, Aspgren, Thomsen, Smektala, Drabik, 

[fatface]

18 hours ago, Mark said:

I would not have Hancock in the 2020 series but allow him two wildcards at big stadiums to say goodbye.  Who could deny him having been a great GP rider over the last 50 years.    I am not a fan of Hancock but it would be a good end to his GP career with no pressure.  Warsaw and Vojens would me my two picks for his swansong. 

Sorry to bang on about Hancock, but we are not talking about a guy who is in the same place as Ivan Mauger on his 1985 Farewell Tour - a good five years past being in the world's elite.

We are talking about a guy still firmly in the world's top 5  when he last swung his leg over a bike in anger less than 12 months ago. We're all guilty of assuming he is past it because no other rider in the sport's history was performing at his level at his age. I thought he was past it 10 years ago...and he's won three titles since then!

Like him or not, he has long ago shattered our pre-conceived illusions of what a rider can and can't do at his age. Would people suggest that Valentino Rossi should not be in the MotoGPs because he is in his 40s and hasn't won a title in 10 years? He's still among the elite riders, so why would you?

[norbold]

I agree in principle with everything you say, Gavan. Just one thing though, if Zagar maintains his place in the top 8, Anders Thomsen will be in next year.

[racers and royals]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

I agree in principle with everything you say, Gavan. Just one thing though, if Zagar maintains his place in the top 8, Anders Thomsen will be in next year.

He won`t be if Vaculik finishes outside the top 8 

[norbold]

6 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

He won`t be if Vaculik finishes outside the top 8 

That doesn't seem likely at the moment.

[TheReturn]

On 9/9/2019 at 4:46 PM, Mark said:

Doyle is 11th but he should get a card. 

Is he? I am sure the table I looked at showed him 8th. Will check in a moment, but yes, I agree on card.

[TheReturn]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:55 AM, Gavan said:

Im not Hancocks biggest fan but i want the best riders in there....age is irrelevant ...and after the career he has had then i would think it justified to give him a spot

He may not come back or want to do the GPs, I don't know.  But if he does, I don't think we can justify giving him a card based on him having an amazing career, we have to look forwards not backwards.  It's my opinion that his age is relevant after a year out, look how Tai struggled after his return after just a few weeks out, both fitness and equipment.

If his age was not relevant, the lead commentator would not be banging on about it all last season.

I don't have the answer, but I do not think giving him a wildcard is right without him earning it now (not based on the past 20 years). You're only as good as your next game, and you can't live on past glories as every opposition football fan likes to remind us Forest fans (we were twice European Champions for those that don't know)! 

Like I say, I don't have a 'fair' answer, but I have never been a fan of wildcards, I would much rather a rider earned their place in the championship.  So maybe now is the time that the GP explored that, and my suggestion would be a second GP challenge. The idea being at the start of the new season, a second chance to rightfully 'earn' a GP place is made available through a second GP challenge, with the bottom 7 from the GP series of the previous season, and the top 6 non-qualifiers from the first GP challenge the previous season and then allowing the GP series to give 3 wildcards to riders who for various reasons missed the cut the previous season, or top youngsters they feel would add to the SGP.  The top 4 from this second GP challenge qualify for that season's GP series. 

This gives all riders a second bite of the cherry, and gives the SGP the option to award wildcards and allows those wildcards to 'earn' their place in the racing elite, to show they have the ability to compete. 

 

 

 

[TheReturn]

21 minutes ago, TheReturn said:

Is he? I am sure the table I looked at showed him 8th. Will check in a moment, but yes, I agree on card.

My mistake, on the SGP home page, there is row of Instagram post images which shows Doyle 8th. I should have realised that was an old table, sorry for getting that wrong.

[Mark]

23 minutes ago, TheReturn said:

Is he? I am sure the table I looked at showed him 8th. Will check in a moment, but yes, I agree on card.

https://www.speedwaygp.com/standings