Cradley vs Kent 9th Sep - Off, Re-arranged for 16th Sep double header with BV Cup match

[MattJ81]

Was planning to start a topic for this one as it has become play off defining since last week's win at Plymouth.  Sadly the weather has won but it has been re-arranged for next week (Monday 16th) as part of a double header with the Belle Vue cup semi final.  Not starting til 7:30 which may be optimistic to get 30 heats in but fingers crossed we can get two positive results

[craigACE]

Should have the start changed to 6-30. Meetings at Kent start at that time. 

[bigred]

2 hours ago, craigACE said:

Should have the start changed to 6-30. Meetings at Kent start at that time. 

No ones allowed in the stadium before 6-30 because of the dog racing.

[MattJ81]

8 minutes ago, bigred said:

No ones allowed in the stadium before 6-30 because of the dog racing.

Thanks I hadn't realised that.  I guess that is what has stopped the double headers with Wolves PL meetings too 

[teaboy279]

Away fans, especially Kent get a kick in the nuts. 20 quid to watch 2 away wins when your only interested in 1. And kent season ticket holders lose a home match too. 

Should ar least offer what Coventry used too, and that's half price admission for away fans wishing to watch 1 match in a double header. Most will undoubtedly watch both meetings anyway, having travelled up, but be nice to offer the option in my opinion.

That all said it is of course the right thing for clubs to be flexible this time of the year, as the riders and supporters dont deserve to miss out on a chance to qualify because the management couldn't arrange seven meetings earlier in the dry summer.

[TurnTwo]

6 hours ago, teaboy279 said:

Away fans, especially Kent get a kick in the nuts. 20 quid to watch 2 away wins when your only interested in 1. And kent season ticket holders lose a home match too. 

Should ar least offer what Coventry used too, and that's half price admission for away fans wishing to watch 1 match in a double header. Most will undoubtedly watch both meetings anyway, having travelled up, but be nice to offer the option in my opinion.

That all said it is of course the right thing for clubs to be flexible this time of the year, as the riders and supporters dont deserve to miss out on a chance to qualify because the management couldn't arrange seven meetings earlier in the dry summer.

In fairness they did well to fit 7 fixtures in with all the external issues in running a team at monmore green 

[HGould]

12 hours ago, teaboy279 said:

Away fans, especially Kent get a kick in the nuts. 20 quid to watch 2 away wins when your only interested in 1. And kent season ticket holders lose a home match too. 

Should ar least offer what Coventry used too, and that's half price admission for away fans wishing to watch 1 match in a double header. Most will undoubtedly watch both meetings anyway, having travelled up, but be nice to offer the option in my opinion.

That all said it is of course the right thing for clubs to be flexible this time of the year, as the riders and supporters dont deserve to miss out on a chance to qualify because the management couldn't arrange seven meetings earlier in the dry summer.

The fact of the matter is Cradley have to fit around (a) availability of track secondary in pecking order to Wolves (b) can't gain access to the Track until around 6.15pm and that often becomes 6.30pm due to afternoon BAGS Dog Racing at the Stadium.

There is the added complication that as Cradley are a Monday venue that have to work around Len's schedule of running every week.  All very well saying 1/2 price admission for an Away fan but how do you identify clearly an "away fan" and what about home fans who say "I only want to watch 1 meeting". 

Hopefully is won't rain next week and the matter will be solved to the benefit of all.

[brianbuck]

Cradley bosses will have had their fingers crossed all season when considering weather conditions. With so few dates available to them at Monmore in the first place, a succession of rain-off's would have been a total disaster. The Cradley management have been blamed for all manner of things this season, but it's hardly fair to blame them for the weather!

[teaboy279]

11 hours ago, Richard Weston said:

I take it you are totally new to speedway.

Always a shock for new supporters when they find how double headers work..

Give it a few years, and you will pick it up works.

Only 30 odd years, so have a vague idea. 

What you tend to get now is 1 full meeting, and a rushed 10 heats to follow. (Last year at stoke we were treated to a ten heat meeting followed by a 15 heat meeting which was a strange way to do it)

Usually the 2nd meeting will feature 2 or 3 riders from the away team in the first meeting as guests for either side in the 2nd match.

Coventry always offered split admission for Storm double headers and I recall in the past various meetings I ve attended as a neutral at different tracks offering away fans similar deals.

 

Just because something is the norm, speedway not offering VFM in this case, it doesn't make it correct and doesn't mean it cant be changed.

[teaboy279]

For many speedway fans it is irellivant and they will just watch both happily, but to give in this case Kent fans a chance to get an early get away and not require 2 days of work is a bonus (I ve seen people ask how you police it, well simply charge the full price on entry and give them 7 quid back at the turnstiles if they leave before heat 1 of meeting 2.) And also allows those Colts fans unable to leave work early the chance to come knowing thier meeting wont start till 8.45 ish and they too dont have to pay to see a match against Kent that is meaningless to them.

[HGould]

15 hours ago, brianbuck said:

Cradley bosses will have had their fingers crossed all season when considering weather conditions. With so few dates available to them at Monmore in the first place, a succession of rain-off's would have been a total disaster. The Cradley management have been blamed for all manner of things this season, but it's hardly fair to blame them for the weather!

Totally agree brian.

Double header on this occasion is perfectly sensible idea.

I also think Cradley have to consider fact that likely to be 10 x as many Away Supporters from Belle Vue than Kent,  accepting fact BV a far bigger name and average supporter base in thousands still rather than hundreds.

Of course BV is bigger draw for them. Shame for the handful of Kent fans who may travel on a Monday but simple commercial reality.

With Stoke closing, Cradley looking less and less likely to run in 2020 and doubts about the long term viability of BV and Leicester running 2 sides, could be sadly the end of NDL as we know it.  

[teaboy279]

2 minutes ago, HGould said:

With Stoke closing, Cradley looking less and less likely to run in 2020 and doubts about the long term viability of BV and Leicester running 2 sides, could be sadly the end of NDL as we know it.  

I think stoke going, and Cradley in doubt I am pretty certain there will just be 2 bigger leagues with an mdl running beneath it.

[Sings4Speedway]

2 minutes ago, HGould said:

Totally agree brian.

Double header on this occasion is perfectly sensible idea.

I also think Cradley have to consider fact that likely to be 10 x as many Away Supporters from Belle Vue than Kent,  accepting fact BV a far bigger name and average supporter base in thousands still rather than hundreds.

Of course BV is bigger draw for them. Shame for the handful of Kent fans who may travel on a Monday but simple commercial reality.

With Stoke closing, Cradley looking less and less likely to run in 2020 and doubts about the long term viability of BV and Leicester running 2 sides, could be sadly the end of NDL as we know it.  

With respect if Belle Vue Colts have a supporter base in the thousands i would be staggered if they have bigger gates than Kent over the season. The locality may suit itself to travelling supporters from the north but 2nd fixture of a double header isn't often a great draw and generally ive seen more travelling Kent fans about than any other club in the NDL.

I suspect there might be a couple of clubs that will gladly step down to fill the gaps, the costs of running speedway at present are alarming but no NDL will officially be the end of the sport. 

[HGould]

1 hour ago, teaboy279 said:

I think stoke going, and Cradley in doubt I am pretty certain there will just be 2 bigger leagues with an mdl running beneath it.

I think that you are right on that but where does that leave NDL Clubs who may be forced in to a higher league and not be able to afford costs or have no wish to move out of "Development League" status.

Kent, Mildenhall ; IOW; Plymouth are going to have some very difficult decisions to make. I can't see BV / Cubs running in a 2 tier structure and Cradley likewise with limited access to Monmore Green.

Worrying times for those 4 NDL regulars.

[HGould]

1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

With respect if Belle Vue Colts have a supporter base in the thousands i would be staggered if they have bigger gates than Kent over the season. The locality may suit itself to travelling supporters from the north but 2nd fixture of a double header isn't often a great draw and generally ive seen more travelling Kent fans about than any other club in the NDL.

I suspect there might be a couple of clubs that will gladly step down to fill the gaps, the costs of running speedway at present are alarming but no NDL will officially be the end of the sport. 

If buster gets his 10 Team Top League with rumoured Leicester / Somerset / Sheffield it poses huge questions.

Do Berwick / Birmingham / Eastbourne / Edinburgh / Newcastle / Redcar / Scunthorpe - dumb down in to a composite CL/NDL or do IOW / Kent / Mildenhall / Plymouth crank up in to a higher NDL/CL composite . That could be a great 11 Team League on paper but in reality how many would remain - I fear it could be no more than 6 or 7.

Terrifying thoughts for many Clubs who have to decide to effective move down or up against their wishes and economic logic either way.

 

 

 

[Sings4Speedway]

48 minutes ago, HGould said:

If buster gets his 10 Team Top League with rumoured Leicester / Somerset / Sheffield it poses huge questions.

Do Berwick / Birmingham / Eastbourne / Edinburgh / Newcastle / Redcar / Scunthorpe - dumb down in to a composite CL/NDL or do IOW / Kent / Mildenhall / Plymouth crank up in to a higher NDL/CL composite . That could be a great 11 Team League on paper but in reality how many would remain - I fear it could be no more than 6 or 7.

Terrifying thoughts for many Clubs who have to decide to effective move down or up against their wishes and economic logic either way.

 

 

 

My big fear is that if Buster gets his desired top league how sustainable will it be long term? Clubs should be required to show a break even/profit before stepping into leagues with higher costs. 

Kent often post a profit at NDL level but would they in a higher division? Plymouth have been on a rallying call recently for spectators so increased out goings may be too much for several. Likewise those potentially dropping down who have stated that the losses are large at Championship level but how would crowd numbers hold up to NL racing (some tracks already post figures lower than several NL tracks). 

What needs to be considered in the long term sustainability of all clubs not just those that Buster is involved with otherwise he will find that there will be no league for his precious Kings Lynn to compete in. 

[IronScorpion]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

If buster gets his 10 Team Top League with rumoured Leicester / Somerset / Sheffield it poses huge questions.

Do Berwick / Birmingham / Eastbourne / Edinburgh / Newcastle / Redcar / Scunthorpe - dumb down in to a composite CL/NDL or do IOW / Kent / Mildenhall / Plymouth crank up in to a higher NDL/CL composite . That could be a great 11 Team League on paper but in reality how many would remain - I fear it could be no more than 6 or 7.

Terrifying thoughts for many Clubs who have to decide to effective move down or up against their wishes and economic logic either way.

 

 

 

Glasgow? Where would Peterborough go with their stadium issues?

[HGould]

27 minutes ago, IronScorpion said:

Glasgow? Where would Peterborough go with their stadium issues?

I had assumed Glasgow might replace Peterboriugh but forgot to include in CL as a result.

Not sure if any CL clubs other than the 3 rumoured and Glasgow would want to move up but would at least be right and proper if they were asked!

[flipper11]

15 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

With respect if Belle Vue Colts have a supporter base in the thousands i would be staggered if they have bigger gates than Kent over the season. The locality may suit itself to travelling supporters from the north but 2nd fixture of a double header isn't often a great draw and generally ive seen more travelling Kent fans about than any other club in the NDL.

I suspect there might be a couple of clubs that will gladly step down to fill the gaps, the costs of running speedway at present are alarming but no NDL will officially be the end of the sport. 

Sings. If you had realised HGould is an Eastbourne supporter you would have ignored this post like i did.

[arnieg]

In general cubs/colts teams have virtually zero travelling support. From my frequent attendance at various NL tracks I would certainly place Kent as providing the largest (and friendliest) visiting contingent of away fans.