Peterborough V Swindon Monday 9/9/19

[Sidney the robin]

I actually believe the common sense call should of been made all four back what could Vissing have done.?Also this is an entertainment business we want to see all four riders in every race.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[bellevueace]

9 hours ago, mikebv said:

If you have a crap haircut I believe there is now a little known rule that says no barber necessarily needs to be criticised for it... 

I think Rosco must use Kim Jong Un,s barber

[mikebv]

1 minute ago, bellevueace said:

I think Rosco must use Kim Jong Un,s barber

He best not ever go to NK then as Kim is the only one allowed to have that particular 'style'.. 

[foreverblue]

25 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I actually believe the common sense call should of been made all four back what could Vissing have done.?Also this is an entertainment business we want to see all four riders in every race.

The exclusion rule has never worked like that though and it's a rule that is applied worldwide.

[IainB]

21 hours ago, Pinny said:

Time for Nicholls to call it a day in the top flight and have a farewell season at lower level. As great a servant he has been over the years. 

I think there's life in the old dog yet, he's been a joy to watch around Leicester this year and is one of only a handful of riders who seem to have mastered the track. I agree though his best days in the top flight are long behind him.

19 hours ago, foreverblue said:

Middlo will never leave Poole to manage another club, he is a one club man and at Poole we are all very grateful to have such a nice person to manage our team.

Didn't he have a spell at Arena?

[Sidney the robin]

43 minutes ago, foreverblue said:

The exclusion rule has never worked like that though and it's a rule that is applied worldwide.

It is a rule that should be changed then, if it had maybe the 1982 Penhall/Carter incident would of never arisen there is not a black/white area everyone see's something differently.Just think back to that incident why not have a rerun with all four back ? nobody in the stadium really knew who was at fault that night.The sport was robbed again of a spectacle when common sense could of been applied.

[foreverblue]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

It is a rule that should be changed then, if it had maybe the 1982 Penhall/Carter incident would of never arisen there is not a black/white area everyone see's something differently.Just think back to that incident why not have a rerun with all four back ? nobody in the stadium really knew who was at fault that night.The sport was robbed again of a spectacle when common sense could of been applied.

I have always thought that it was unfair to penalise a rider and the fans of a race involving 4 riders to be reduced to 3 just because of a incident where nobody is at fault. Having said that Vissing would have still been last in the re-run judging by the rest of his evening but it is a poor rule in my opinion.

[foreverblue]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

I think there's life in the old dog yet, he's been a joy to watch around Leicester this year and is one of only a handful of riders who seem to have mastered the track. I agree though his best days in the top flight are long behind him.

Didn't he have a spell at Arena?

I don't remember Middlo ever managing any other team but you could be right I don't know.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

4 minutes ago, foreverblue said:

I have always thought that it was unfair to penalise a rider and the fans of a race involving 4 riders to be reduced to 3 just because of a incident where nobody is at fault. Having said that Vissing would have still been last in the re-run judging by the rest of his evening but it is a poor rule in my opinion.

But if someone falls one of the riders IS at fault

In this case either one of the riders did something to cause Vissing to fall or he fell by himself

No such thing as no fault IMO

[foreverblue]

27 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

But if someone falls one of the riders IS at fault

In this case either one of the riders did something to cause Vissing to fall or he fell by himself

No such thing as no fault IMO

There are loads on incidents where it is very difficult to determine where the fault lies, first bend incidents are usually all 4 back for bunching but it could be argued someone was at fault.

Edited September 11, 2019 by foreverblue

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Just now, foreverblue said:

There are loads on incidents where it is very difficult to determine where the fault lies, first bend incidents are usually all 4 back.

Totally agree that many incidents are very difficult to oin one way or the other but there is still fault 

A racing incident rule would see referees use it as a cop out too often rather than make a tough call

[robins les]

21 hours ago, woofers said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s not that ‘The 1st bend rule’ isn’t that clear, it just doesn’t exist does it ?

As far as I can see, the rules relating to heat stoppages are all in regulations 15.5 and subsections:

15.5 The Referee, alone, may stop a heat, following an incident or accident, by showing the "stop" Signal if in their opinion it would be dangerous to allow the heat to continue. Alternatively, the Referee disqualify a rider, where the offence committed may include allowing both wheels of the motorcycle to cross the inner edge of the track unless such action was for another Rider’s safety, or for receiving outside assistance, including communication to/from the Pits, 3rd party physical contact with the motorcycle or rider, regardless of whether it assists the rider or not, or is lapped, in which case the disqualified rider must withdraw immediately from the course, yet allow the heat to continue
15.5.1 Where a heat is stopped, the Referee shall disqualify the rider, who in their opinion is the primary cause of the stoppage, has indulged in foul, unfair, dangerous or reckless conduct that’s jeopardised the fair chance of an opponent. In certain circumstances, that may include disqualification from the rest of the Meeting, with no facility allowed in a team meeting.
15.5.2 Where a Referee stops a heat, and the leading Rider has completed at least 2 laps, then they have the sole discretion to either order a re-run or award the heat based upon the positions when it was caused to be stopped; Riders, other than the one disqualified being advanced one place.
15.5.3 A rider, unable to cross the finishing line, when the leading Rider has done so or the heat has been awarded, as a result of foul, unfair or dangerous riding on the part of another Rider shall be deemed to have finished in the position he held immediately prior to the foul, unfair or dangerous riding, as also shall a rider who has deliberately laid down his motorcycle, or has left the course in the interests of safety;

There is no reference to bend 1, therefore using the logic that there is some unwritten discretion for the referee to put all 4 riders back (for a bend 1 incident) who’s to say that the discretion shouldn’t apply to the rest of the race ?  

Rosco was wrong to say that there is a rule that allows a referee to put all 4 riders back, there is no such rule to allow this at any time.

To be fair to Rosco, that rule is not clear. What happens if in the referee's opinion, nobody is guilty of foul, unfair, dangerous or reckless conduct. What does he do in those circumstances.

[stevebrum]

5 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

I don’t see that Vissing had much choice, he had to try and get round the corner with what little track he had left at that point. I get the cop out theory and it would need strong refereeing but very occasionally you get a situation like this where nobody has done anything wrong and all four back should be an option. 

Watching the race back I think the actions of Vissing on the back straight lead up to the incident causing all 3 to go into the bend together.

An exclusion from anyone however is still harsh.

[SteveLyric2]

3 hours ago, iainb said:

I think there's life in the old dog yet, he's been a joy to watch around Leicester this year and is one of only a handful of riders who seem to have mastered the track. I agree though his best days in the top flight are long behind him.

Didn't he have a spell at Arena?

Middlo rode for Arena but don't think he ever managed them.

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Boycey's former spannerman Neil Vatcher?

[IainB]

32 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Middlo rode for Arena but don't think he ever managed them.

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Boycey's former spannerman Neil Vatcher?

Yeah, I meant riding for Arena, you obviously meant as a manager. I didn't know that Vatcher spannered for Boycey though... I wondered where he'd come from

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Totally agree that many incidents are very difficult to oin one way or the other but there is still fault 

A racing incident rule would see referees use it as a cop out too often rather than make a tough call

That is where the common sense comes in you dont always  have to  make a tough call especially when you are not always 100 per cent.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[foreverblue]

2 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Totally agree that many incidents are very difficult to oin one way or the other but there is still fault 

A racing incident rule would see referees use it as a cop out too often rather than make a tough call

i would be happier with that personally ,the best races are when 4 riders are in a race not 2 or 3. There may be still a fault but if it not clear or obvious then it should be re-run with 4 riders.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

33 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

That is where the common sense comes in you dont always  have to  make a tough call especially when you are not always 100 per cent.

The downside is it's the easy option even when it's not so much of a tough call

[Baldyman]

So it must have been Busters fault, everything else is. 

[wealdstone]

Nice to see on watching replay on TV that Kevin Austin was in the pits. Clearly as sponsor of Ulrich  and presumably still persona non gratta  along with others  as far as Panthers bosses are concerned