Big decisions in November.

[mikebv]

6 minutes ago, iainb said:

Probably because you'll be a socially retarded cretin about it 

Where's me Butterkist?

[stevebrum]

I don’t see the need for personal name calling to make a point, just saying.

[IainB]

I've seen this BWitcher on a number of threads acting like some kind of Perry Mason type character when he or she, I'm going for he, disagrees with something, not only that he is often very rude and insulting and would probably receive a punch in the face if he spoke to somebody like that face to face. Having recently been his latest victim on this very thread I've seen just how he twists and downright lies about what has previously been said. I'm sure he can take a bit of name calling as he can certainly dish it out.

Edited September 6, 2019 by iainb

[BWitcher]

21 minutes ago, iainb said:

I've seen this BWitcher on a number of threads acting like some kind of Perry Mason type character when he or she, I'm going for he, disagrees with something, not only that he is often very rude and insulting and would probably receive a punch in the face if he spoke to somebody like that face to face. Having recently been his latest victim on this very thread I've seen just how he twists and downright lies about what has previously been said. I'm sure he can take a bit of name calling as he can certainly dish it out.

There hasn't been anything to 'disagree' on. You made a claim, it was false. You were corrected by myself and others.

Unable to act like an adult you've descended into hurling more and more insults with each post you make. 

Perhaps contribute in an adult fashion and explain why it is 'ridiculous' that one team can score more for 'drawing' than another or let the adults carry on discussing.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by BWitcher

[BWitcher]

58 minutes ago, mikebv said:

They have a much more joined up system (as you say professional), which to be honest I've always thought British Speedway should have followed..

An elected commission with no allegiances running a trade organisation of franchises..

All collectively marketing, all collectively sharing the pie that their plan delivers..

No relegation means no threat to any long term business plan and guarantees a certain amount to be budgeted for each season..

Obviously this comes with severe sanction if you let the 'brand' down and if you don't cut it then you could find yourself out of a franchise..

This aspirational business plan though obviously delivers overall organic growth..

If UK Speedway tried it, it would take a year of arguments and meetings to just agree on the name for the organisation, never mind the operating model and business plan..

Agree, but as I said many of the principles are the same.

It is the 32 owners that vote on any rule changes for example, not an independent body.

The Competition Committee who propose the rule changes aren't independent, they are all representatives of clubs. be it presidents, owners or head coaches.

In essence the same as the BSPA management committee.

It's just the professionalism and adaption of ideas that is the major (and of course I mean MAJOR) difference.

[IainB]

7 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Perhaps contribute in an adult fashion and explain why it is 'ridiculous' that one team can score more for 'drawing' than another or let the adults carry on discussing.

You really can't see anything wrong with that statement?

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

You really can't see anything wrong with that statement?

Which part?

If it's the away team receiving an extra pt, absolutely not and the overwhelming majority of people, speedway fans or not wouldn't bat an eyelid about it.

Just as they don't at rules and criteria in other sports, many of which have been covered.

If it's the adults part, that's up to you, continue in the debate or post another inflammatory message, your choice.

[Grachan]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

You really can't see anything wrong with that statement?

There's nothing wrong with it. The only thing wrong is the 2 points for winning at home for less than 6 was taken away.

You say bonus points are ok. Well, just think of it as a bonus point for getting within 6 away from home.

Lose by 6 the away team get a bonus point.

Draw then 1 point each. Plus the bonus point for the away team.

Win by up to 6. 2 points. Plus the original bonus if it is the away team.

Win by over 6. 3 points plus the bonus point if it is the away team.

It would be as simple as that except they took away the 2 points for the home team winning by 6 or less. It's still ok, but made more sense when it was 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.

[IainB]

1 minute ago, Grachan said:

There's nothing wrong with it. The only thing wrong is the 2 points for winning at home for less than 6 was taken away.

You say bonus points are ok. Well, just think of it as a bonus point for getting within 6 away from home.

Lose by 6 the away team get a bonus point.

Draw then 1 point each. Plus the bonus point for the away team.

Win by up to 6. 2 points. Plus the original bonus if it is the away team.

Win by over 6. 3 points plus the bonus point if it is the away team.

It would be as simple as that except they took away the 2 points for the home team winning by 6 or less. It's still ok, but made more sense when it was 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.

Too complicated I think, especially for a new fan, 3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 1 for aggregate win. Easy, you can do it on the fingers of one hand, unless you're Nicki Pedersen

[IainB]

33 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Which part?

If it's the away team receiving an extra pt, absolutely not and the overwhelming majority of people, speedway fans or not wouldn't bat an eyelid about it.

Just as they don't at rules and criteria in other sports, many of which have been covered.

If it's the adults part, that's up to you, continue in the debate or post another inflammatory message, your choice.

and the overwhelming majority of people, speedway fans or not wouldn't bat an eyelid about it - In your opinion

Just as they don't at rules and criteria in other sports, many of which have been covered - bonus points, already been discussed

post another inflammatory - depends if you're going to be insulting

[IainB]

I think they should bring the yellow and black helmet cover back, it could save the sport like when they went back from green to white

[orion]

4 hours ago, mikebv said:

 

No "proper" competition would ever dream about letting its own competitors make the rules up,

Yes they do ..a lot sports in the us and ran like that .. another speedway myth . I see in cricket you can play for Two teams one the championship and one in limited overs .. Wait to the media get hold of there  be no crowd on t 20 finals day .

[Chadster]

Speedway match scoring; 3 points for a win one for a draw, an extra point for an away draw, an extra point for an away win by more than 6 points. Can't be that complicated if it can be explained in less than a line. I don't know enough about the scoring systems in rugby and cricket. Can someone explain how they work?

Edited September 6, 2019 by Chadster
edited for clarification

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Agree, but as I said many of the principles are the same.

It is the 32 owners that vote on any rule changes for example, not an independent body.

The Competition Committee who propose the rule changes aren't independent, they are all representatives of clubs. be it presidents, owners or head coaches.

In essence the same as the BSPA management committee.

It's just the professionalism and adaption of ideas that is the major (and of course I mean MAJOR) difference.

Those elected in the NFL though are still independant arbiters of the sport..

Roger Goodell (NFL Commissioner) is a decision and policy maker without any affiliation to any club and is in his 13th year of tenure with several elections completed..

The clubs can replace him if he doesn't deliver what they as a collective need (growth and money in the main)..

"The most powerful man in sports" is his grandiose title..

British Speedway would never allow such a position to exist and will carry on all doing their own little thing at a local level without any joined up national plan for the 'brand' of Speedway..

All running to stand still and win that unenvious race to the bottom..

[BWitcher]

22 hours ago, iainb said:

You know how bad my memory is, I was forgetting that you're a bit thick, so I'll help you out.

Rugby Union:

4 points for a win. 2 points for a draw. 1 "bonus" point for winning whilescoring at least 3 more tries than the opponent. 1 "bonus" point for losing by no more than 8 points (the value of a converted try under the law variations used during those seasons).

 

Cricket:

A team is awarded 16 points for a victory, with both sides earning eight points for a tie and five points apiece if a match is drawn.

Here is what iainb posted to try and prove his point (and failing).

Of course he only posted the bit he wanted to on the Cricket. What it ACTUALLY says is:

"SCORING OF POINTS - COUNTY CHAMPIONSHIP

A team is awarded 16 points for a victory, with both sides earning eight points for a tie and five points apiece if a match is drawn. Any points scored in the first innings is added on. 

If the scores are equal in a drawn match where play has taken place, the side batting in the fourth innings scores eight points plus any points scored in the first innings, and the opposing side scores five points plus any points scored in the first innings. 

First Innings Points are awarded only for performances in the first 110 overs of each first innings and retained whatever the result of the match. 

Batting Points

200 to 249 runs - 1 point

250 to 299 runs - 2 points

300 to 349 runs - 3 points

350 to 399 runs - 4 points

400 runs or over - 5 points

Bowling Points

3 to 5 wickets taken - 1 point

6 to 8 wickets taken - 2 points

9 to 10 wickets taken - 3 points

If a match is abandoned without a ball being bowled, each side scores five points. 

If penalty runs are awarded to a team which at that time had faced less than 110 overs in their first innings, or completed their first innings before they had faced 110 overs, those penalty runs will be considered as counting towards the total as far as the award of bonus points is concerned.

If penalty runs are awarded to a team which had already faced 110 overs or more in their first innings, or had previously completed their first innings after they had faced 110 overs, those penalty runs will not be considered as counting towards the total as far as the award of bonus points is concerned.

If the match is abandoned due to an unfit pitch, the home team receives zero points and any bonus points already achieved are rescinded. The visiting team are awarded 16 points plus bonus points already achieved or 20 points - whichever is the greater at the time of abandonment

For tie-breaker purposes, the home side are credited with the loss and the away team gain the win.

The side with the highest aggregate of points gained at the end of the season are crowned Champion County of their respective Division."


And he says speedways pts system is complicated!

I've also highlighted a pertinent bit in bold. Imagine that, what a 'ridiculous rule'.. the away side given a win!!

 

 

 

[BWitcher]

12 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Those elected in the NFL though are still independant arbiters of the sport..

Roger Goodell (NFL Commissioner) is a decision and policy maker without any affiliation to any club and is in his 13th year of tenure with several elections completed..

The clubs can replace him if he doesn't deliver what they as a collective need (growth and money in the main)..

"The most powerful man in sports" is his grandiose title..

British Speedway would never allow such a position to exist and will carry on all doing their own little thing at a local level without any joined up national plan for the 'brand' of Speedway..

All running to stand still and win that unenvious race to the bottom..

Goodell doesn't make the rules though.. the competition committee, consisting entirely of affiliated members of clubs do.. and the rules are voted in entirely by club owners. Goodell merely enforces them. He's the equivalent of the SCB in that effect.

Of course he has other duties as well which you allude to. 

The point is, speedway is not the only sport where the club owners make the rules.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by BWitcher

[BWitcher]

22 hours ago, Baldyman said:

So looking at those rules you don't get a bonus point for drawing, 

You get plenty of extra pts, he just quoted part of the first paragraph to try and prove himself right, he cut the rest out as it didn't help him. The actual scoring rules are posted a couple of posts up. If you think speedway is complicated, have fun with those!
 

Edited September 6, 2019 by BWitcher

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Too complicated I think, especially for a new fan, 3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 1 for aggregate win. Easy, you can do it on the fingers of one hand, unless you're Nicki Pedersen

You're right, it's clearly the reason the sport of speedway is struggling.

Look at tennis..  you've got pts, game and sets.. you can win the vast majority of the pts and games yet lose the match. Far too complicated, especially for new fans. That sport is dead.

Edited September 6, 2019 by BWitcher

[SteveLyric2]

League speedway is effectively 15 heats of Pairs racing. I think the race points in each heat should be 4;3;2;0 with a tactical substitution of a pair (2 riders) if a team goes 14 points down.

[IainB]

37 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Here is what iainb posted to try and prove his point (and failing).

Of course he only posted the bit he wanted to on the Cricket. What it ACTUALLY says is:

"SCORING OF POINTS - COUNTY CHAMPIONSHIP

A team is awarded 16 points for a victory, with both sides earning eight points for a tie and five points apiece if a match is drawn. Any points scored in the first innings is added on. 

If the scores are equal in a drawn match where play has taken place, the side batting in the fourth innings scores eight points plus any points scored in the first innings, and the opposing side scores five points plus any points scored in the first innings. 

First Innings Points are awarded only for performances in the first 110 overs of each first innings and retained whatever the result of the match. 

Batting Points

200 to 249 runs - 1 point

250 to 299 runs - 2 points

300 to 349 runs - 3 points

350 to 399 runs - 4 points

400 runs or over - 5 points

Bowling Points

3 to 5 wickets taken - 1 point

6 to 8 wickets taken - 2 points

9 to 10 wickets taken - 3 points

If a match is abandoned without a ball being bowled, each side scores five points. 

If penalty runs are awarded to a team which at that time had faced less than 110 overs in their first innings, or completed their first innings before they had faced 110 overs, those penalty runs will be considered as counting towards the total as far as the award of bonus points is concerned.

If penalty runs are awarded to a team which had already faced 110 overs or more in their first innings, or had previously completed their first innings after they had faced 110 overs, those penalty runs will not be considered as counting towards the total as far as the award of bonus points is concerned.

If the match is abandoned due to an unfit pitch, the home team receives zero points and any bonus points already achieved are rescinded. The visiting team are awarded 16 points plus bonus points already achieved or 20 points - whichever is the greater at the time of abandonment

For tie-breaker purposes, the home side are credited with the loss and the away team gain the win.

The side with the highest aggregate of points gained at the end of the season are crowned Champion County of their respective Division."


And he says speedways pts system is complicated!

I've also highlighted a pertinent bit in bold. Imagine that, what a 'ridiculous rule'.. the away side given a win!!

 

 

 

Looks like you've had your team of lawyers forensically going through the evidence... Book him Danno

Just answer me this one question though... How many points are awarded for a draw in county cricket for the home team and for the away team?