1948 Queries

[daveallan81]

I need to know which of these results are incorrect:

Poole v Southampton 17/05 51-33 and 25/10 49-35

Southampton v Poole 13/07 56-27 and 26/10 58-26

*Updated

Edited August 29, 2019 by daveallan81

[BL65]

7 hours ago, daveallan81 said:

I need to know which of these results are incorrect. I'm expecting at least three are wrong: 

I have checked several sources and there are two meetings which I have found different results for:

Fleetwood 34 Edinburgh 49 on 08/05

Yarmouth 41 Exeter 41 on 29/06.  The Speedway Researcher Yarmouth file carries the explanation: Note -Above is amended result as Reg Morgan was placed third in heat 14 (but had fallen and his score was amended to 0).

[daveallan81]

42 minutes ago, BL65 said:

I have checked several sources and there are two meetings which I have found different results for:

Fleetwood 34 Edinburgh 49 on 08/05

Yarmouth 41 Exeter 41 on 29/06.  The Speedway Researcher Yarmouth file carries the explanation: Note -Above is amended result as Reg Morgan was placed third in heat 14 (but had fallen and his score was amended to 0).

Thank you. That leaves a point kicking in one of the Poole v Southampton fixtures (original post edited).

[BL65]

14 hours ago, daveallan81 said:

I need to know which of these results are incorrect:

Poole v Southampton 17/05 51-33 and 25/10 49-35

Southampton v Poole 13/07 56-27 and 26/10 58-26

*Updated

I have a programme for Southampton v Poole 13/07 which shows 56-27, which is the score shown in the weekly Speedway Gazette, Stenners annual, Peter Morrish's book covering 1946-64, subsequent Poole and Southampton programmes that season and in the 'Souvenir Brochure of the Southampton Speedway 1948 Season'.

The result of the match at Poole on 17/05 is shown in subsequent Poole and Southampton programmes, the annual, book and brochure referred to above as 51-33.  The programme for the Special Challenge Match between Poole and Southampton on 07/08 also refers to the result being 51-33 in the earlier match.

The brochure was produced before the October meetings between the sides had been staged, but the scores are recorded in the annual and the book as 49-35 at Poole and 58-26 at Southampton, the same scores as recorded in the weekly Speedway Gazette.

 

 

[daveallan81]

Interesting, thanks. Do you have a league table to compare it with the one on the SGB site here http://www.speedwaygb.co.uk/history/leaguetables1948.php

My figures show Poole scoring 1761.5 pts (SGB site shows 1760.5) and Southampton 2112.5 (SGB 2113.5).

[norbold]

The Stenner's 1949 annual shows Poole: 1761.5; Southampton 2113.5. A combination of both your figures!

[BL65]

1 hour ago, daveallan81 said:

Interesting, thanks. Do you have a league table to compare it with the one on the SGB site here http://www.speedwaygb.co.uk/history/leaguetables1948.php

My figures show Poole scoring 1761.5 pts (SGB site shows 1760.5) and Southampton 2112.5 (SGB 2113.5).

The table in the Stenners annual has Poole 1761.5, but the PM book shows 1760.5,  Stenners and PM show Southampton 2113.5.  The PM book has the same table as on the link.

The Speedway Researcher site shows a match score of Hull 58 Poole 25 on 03/07, although the heat scores show 58-24.    The correct score is 58-24.  Does this account for the Poole discrepancy?  I will check the Southampton results.

[BL65]

I have noted that the result of Hull v Southampton on 09/10 is shown on Researcher as 47-36, but Stenners and the PM book have 47-37 - I suspect that Alf Kaines remounted or pushed after falling in heat 1 in order to account for the additional point. 

Researcher has the match score as Hastings 47 Southampton 33 on 02/06, but the heat details show 47-36, which is confirmed by Stenners and PM.  The other results on Researcher team files appear to match the scores in the annual and book.

[daveallan81]

The combination of the two Hull changes have solved the problem. Thanks for your efforts as I probably wouldn't have been able to resolve things on my own.

[Guest]

I am intrigued by the various threads crosschecking result details from as far back as at least 70 years ago. What is the purpose in these records?

[racers and royals]

10 minutes ago, gustix said:

I am intrigued by the various threads crosschecking result details from as far back as at least 70 years ago. What is the purpose in these records?

Could it just be so we have  a complete historical analysis of British Speedway from it`s earliest days which is 100% as accurate as possible  ?

Hats off to Dave Allen and helpers for doing this time consuming work.

[norbold]

Just to add that the 1949 People Speedway Guide has Poole 1761.5 and Southampton 2113.5 as well.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, gustix said:

I am intrigued by the various threads crosschecking result details from as far back as at least 70 years ago. What is the purpose in these records?

 

11 hours ago, racers and royals said:

Could it just be so we have  a complete historical analysis of British Speedway from it`s earliest days which is 100% as accurate as possible  ?

Hats off to Dave Allen and helpers for doing this time consuming work.

I don't decry the efforts of Dave Allan in his task or the fact there are BSF members prepared to assist him. If he enjoys all this research good luck to him in his efforts. I just cannot appreciate the worth of it all in regard to an area of British sport that diminishes year on year in regard to general interest.  How many speedway supporters are there who have a genuine interest for example '...who finished third in heat five of the New Cross v Harringay match in May 1947...'? And when Dave Allan's task is completed where are they likely to be viewed? But again - good luck to him in his chosen and dedicated task.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Guest
spelling error

[racers and royals]

Just now, gustix said:

 

I don't decry the efforts of Dave Allen in his task or the fact there are BSF members prepared to assist him. If he enjoys all this research good luck to him in his efforts. I just cannot appreciate the worth of it all in regard to an area of British sport that diminishes year on year in regard to general interest.  How many speedway supporters are there who have a genuine interest for example '...who finished third in heat five of the New Cross v Harringay match in May 1947...'? And then Dave Allen's task is completed where are likely to be viewed? But again - good luck to him in his chosen and dedicated task.

So you have no interest in Speedway`s  past  ?

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, gustix said:

I don't decry the efforts of Dave Allen in his task or the fact there are BSF members prepared to assist him. If he enjoys all this research good luck to him in his efforts. I just cannot appreciate the worth of it all in regard to an area of British sport that diminishes year on year in regard to general interest.  How many speedway supporters are there who have a genuine interest for example '...who finished third in heat five of the New Cross v Harringay match in May 1947...'? And when Dave Allen's task is completed where are they likely to be viewed? But again - good luck to him in his chosen and dedicated task.

 

42 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

So you have no interest in Speedway`s  past  ?

No interest in regard to for example isolated match scores and corrections to third heat places from the 1947 season style of upbeat. I am interested in personality items in regard to various riders and debate on generalised happenings over the years.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Guest
spelling error

[BOBBATH]

Have to part ways with you on this one gustix. I think its absolutely great of Dave, Norbold, BL65 et al to do this-to me historical accuracy is very important, so why not try and get it right . Just to let these folks know I really appreciate their efforts and to keep up the good work. Cheers Bob

[iris123]

5 hours ago, gustix said:

 

I don't decry the efforts of Dave Allen in his task or the fact there are BSF members prepared to assist him. If he enjoys all this research good luck to him in his efforts. I just cannot appreciate the worth of it all in regard to an area of British sport that diminishes year on year in regard to general interest.  How many speedway supporters are there who have a genuine interest for example '...who finished third in heat five of the New Cross v Harringay match in May 1947...'? And when Dave Allen's task is completed where are they likely to be viewed? But again - good luck to him in his chosen and dedicated task.

To be quite frank I doubt I am alone in not seeing the worth in about 80% of your posts. And I am trying to be fair here. I’d even go so far as to say the forum improves when you stop posting, somewhat

[norbold]

13 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

Have to part ways with you on this one gustix. I think its absolutely great of Dave, Norbold, BL65 et al to do this-to me historical accuracy is very important, so why not try and get it right . Just to let these folks know I really appreciate their efforts and to keep up the good work. Cheers Bob

Thanks, Bob. Good of you to mention me, but really this has been mostly down to Dave and BL65. But I certainly agree with your sentiments and I certainly applaud all the work those two have done and are doing to sort out all the anomalies so that we have an accurate history of our sport.

[iris123]

It is quite ironic really the complaint about peoplewanting correct historical stats comes from someone who had an infamous thread where a couple of his aliases were chatting to each other propogating the myth that Hoskins started the sport in Maitland

[Guest]

5 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

Have to part ways with you on this one gustix. I think its absolutely great of Dave, Norbold, BL65 et al to do this-to me historical accuracy is very important, so why not try and get it right . Just to let these folks know I really appreciate their efforts and to keep up the good work. Cheers Bob

 

5 hours ago, norbold said:

Thanks, Bob. Good of you to mention me, but really this has been mostly down to Dave and BL65. But I certainly agree with your sentiments and I certainly applaud all the work those two have done and are doing to sort out all the anomalies so that we have an accurate history of our sport.

I don't detract in anyway that if a person wants to present details of past speedway results that is their right to do so. All I am trying to highlight is why when overall interest in British speedway is albeit sadly diminishing. How many speedway followers want accurate results for say the 1947 season? Very few IMO. I would estimate that most of those who use the BSF are only interested in modern times. Again if Dave Allan wants to create accurate results for past seasons 'all strength to his elbow' for that. But as I see it the majority of BSF users only want to know about present time speedway and its happenings.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Guest