Deano Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 8 hours ago, 25yearfan said: I wonder had speedway continued at the Shay after 1985 whether the 1990's would have taken place or if stadium redevelopments would have included keeping the speedway track? Interesting point. But if I use Exeter Rugby Stadium as an example, stadium improvements there which included the eventual move finished speedway in Exeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 59 minutes ago, Deano said: Interesting point. But if I use Exeter Rugby Stadium as an example, stadium improvements there which included the eventual move finished speedway in Exeter. ...and all the while Cowley Stadium is laying dormant. A travesty for a once such great facilty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 I think the problem with all these stadiums, and speedway in general, is that promotions are happy to be tenants which means that they don't have to pay directly for stadium maintenance or improvements or general upkeep but they also don't have any say or influence when a developer comes and offers millions for the land. Odsal has reopened for motorsports because Startrax put hard cash into making it happen - full stop. If speedway wants to revive any of these dormant stadiums - Coventry, Cowley - then someone has to come forward with hard cash and make it happen. Leicester and Belle Vue show the way forward for speedway - but also underline that it needs someone with deep pockets to build a modern stadium from scratch ... and we're talking millions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 11 hours ago, 25yearfan said: I wonder had speedway continued at the Shay after 1985 whether the 1990's would have taken place or if stadium redevelopments would have included keeping the speedway track? I still maintain that had Halifax kept going at the Shay and stadium developments would of included speedway then Halifax speedway would still be running up to present times and more than likely would still be one of the best attended tracks in the Country. - I also say the same about Bristol (closed 1977), Cradley (lost Stadium in 1995) and Coventry which closed in 2016. Complete fantasy land thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 hours ago, George Dodds said: I think the problem with all these stadiums, and speedway in general, is that promotions are happy to be tenants which means that they don't have to pay directly for stadium maintenance or improvements or general upkeep but they also don't have any say or influence when a developer comes and offers millions for the land. Odsal has reopened for motorsports because Startrax put hard cash into making it happen - full stop. If speedway wants to revive any of these dormant stadiums - Coventry, Cowley - then someone has to come forward with hard cash and make it happen. Leicester and Belle Vue show the way forward for speedway - but also underline that it needs someone with deep pockets to build a modern stadium from scratch ... and we're talking millions. wouldn't say Redcar cost millions and its arguably the best track in the division. Facilities aren't plush but hey ho. If someone can get a field in a suitable spot, put the track in and build the facilities as you go = not cheap i know, but not millions. I've said it before but there are dozens of showgrounds where the land is unused for long periods, other than boot sales and they're usually out of town - Westpoint, Exeter for example or Royal Highland at Edinburgh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 hours ago, George Dodds said: I think the problem with all these stadiums, and speedway in general, is that promotions are happy to be tenants which means that they don't have to pay directly for stadium maintenance or improvements or general upkeep but they also don't have any say or influence when a developer comes and offers millions for the land. Odsal has reopened for motorsports because Startrax put hard cash into making it happen - full stop. If speedway wants to revive any of these dormant stadiums - Coventry, Cowley - then someone has to come forward with hard cash and make it happen. Leicester and Belle Vue show the way forward for speedway - but also underline that it needs someone with deep pockets to build a modern stadium from scratch ... and we're talking millions. Tim Stone (Newport) did a 'Leicester and Belle Vue', sadly died and the replacement promoters balls'd it up! It is not only the deep pockets that count , but the adeptness of the promoter! Of course, Cradley stadium was owned by the Pughs and I seem to recall a son was racing at the time, when they sold the stadium to Barratt's. Coventry was shafted by the owner. Being an owner of a speedway stadium guarantees nothing, when big money is on the table. I seem to recall John Davis didn't do Weymouth any favours! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said: Tim Stone (Newport) did a 'Leicester and Belle Vue', sadly died and the replacement promoters balls'd it up! It is not only the deep pockets that count , but the adeptness of the promoter! Of course, Cradley stadium was owned by the Pughs and I seem to recall a son was racing at the time, when they sold the stadium to Barratt's. Coventry was shafted by the owner. Being an owner of a speedway stadium guarantees nothing, when big money is on the table. I seem to recall John Davis didn't do Weymouth any favours! Didn't John's father, Harry, once own Weymouth who was later 'mugged' into signing over his assets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 hours ago, George Dodds said: I think the problem with all these stadiums, and speedway in general, is that promotions are happy to be tenants which means that they don't have to pay directly for stadium maintenance or improvements or general upkeep but they also don't have any say or influence when a developer comes and offers millions for the land. Odsal has reopened for motorsports because Startrax put hard cash into making it happen - full stop. If speedway wants to revive any of these dormant stadiums - Coventry, Cowley - then someone has to come forward with hard cash and make it happen. Leicester and Belle Vue show the way forward for speedway - but also underline that it needs someone with deep pockets to build a modern stadium from scratch ... and we're talking millions. Somerset was the ideal model wasn't it? Until about a month ago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 7 hours ago, George Dodds said: I think the problem with all these stadiums, and speedway in general, is that promotions are happy to be tenants which means that they don't have to pay directly for stadium maintenance or improvements or general upkeep but they also don't have any say or influence when a developer comes and offers millions for the land. Odsal has reopened for motorsports because Startrax put hard cash into making it happen - full stop. If speedway wants to revive any of these dormant stadiums - Coventry, Cowley - then someone has to come forward with hard cash and make it happen. Leicester and Belle Vue show the way forward for speedway - but also underline that it needs someone with deep pockets to build a modern stadium from scratch ... and we're talking millions. The last time I popped to Cowley Stadium to have a look it was in a desperate state...would need a considerable amount of money thrown at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 hours ago, steve roberts said: The last time I popped to Cowley Stadium to have a look it was in a desperate state...would need a considerable amount of money thrown at it. And as i recall, the GRA willing to sell the stadium! Last I heard, they were holding out for housing development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ray Stadia said: And as i recall, the GRA willing to sell the stadium! Last I heard, they were holding out for housing development. When I spoke to a represenative of the GRA via email some years ago explaining how shocked I was regarding the state of the stadium and that their intention was just to let it deteriorate I was assured by her that this wasn't the case which of course was a nonsense as time has proved. They had no intention of keeping the stadium as a going concern and were only looking at what it would be worth to a developer. Edited May 11, 2021 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 20 hours ago, ch958 said: wouldn't say Redcar cost millions and its arguably the best track in the division. Facilities aren't plush but hey ho. Out of interest Startrax budgeted £200,000 for the work needed to put in a new track and refresh the basic infrastructure at Odsal - an existing stadium with foundations etc already in place for the actual. Add in the cost of buying or leasing the land, connection to mains services such as drainage and electricals, planning costs and even basic groundworks and I would still argue that there's not much change left from a million - the plural was probably superfluous but didn't Belle Vue end up somewhere around the £5 mill mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 i wonder if anyone in the know would care to tell us what Redcar cost. I expect the council would have been fairly ok with the rent, its land that wd otherwise be useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 Allegedly, Tony Mole spent a quarter of a million in setting up the Perry Barr track: and that was in an existing stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 7:26 AM, noaksey said: Somerset was the ideal model wasn't it? Until about a month ago Oh dear whats happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piotr Pyszny Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) On 5/9/2021 at 6:32 PM, steve roberts said: I remember when I popped into the Shay c2009 I couldn't imagine how the track once fitted around the pitch. All evidence of a once speedway track had disappeared. The other aspect of reconfiguring The Shay that hasn't been mentioned is the football/rugby pitch being moved circa 20 yards closer to the Skircoat (west) Stand, thereby covering the site of the starting gate and home straight. It was done to free up space for a new, larger east stand, part of which now occupies what was the speedway track's back straight. Edited May 19, 2021 by Piotr Pyszny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 12:10 PM, Ray Stadia said: Tim Stone (Newport) did a 'Leicester and Belle Vue', sadly died and the replacement promoters balls'd it up! It is not only the deep pockets that count , but the adeptness of the promoter! Of course, Cradley stadium was owned by the Pughs and I seem to recall a son was racing at the time, when they sold the stadium to Barratt's. Coventry was shafted by the owner. Being an owner of a speedway stadium guarantees nothing, when big money is on the table. I seem to recall John Davis didn't do Weymouth any favours! Cradley Stadium, I was never aware of a Pugh family member riding Speedway (maybe a horse), as for the Stadium itself the Pughs only held a minor share of the Stadium it was the Bridgewaters that were the major owners of Dudley Wood Stadium, being Stadium owners they can take a minimal rent with all the hassle of complying with H&S etc etc, or they can take a lump sum and retire to sun drenched beaches without a care in the world its really not a choice especially with property prices continuing to go through the roof, I can say persons with an interest in seeing the return of Cradley Heathens were the under bidders in a property/land sale within the last 12 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 54 minutes ago, heathen52 said: Cradley Stadium, I was never aware of a Pugh family member riding Speedway (maybe a horse), as for the Stadium itself the Pughs only held a minor share of the Stadium it was the Bridgewaters that were the major owners of Dudley Wood Stadium, being Stadium owners they can take a minimal rent with all the hassle of complying with H&S etc etc, or they can take a lump sum and retire to sun drenched beaches without a care in the world its really not a choice especially with property prices continuing to go through the roof, I can say persons with an interest in seeing the return of Cradley Heathens were the under bidders in a property/land sale within the last 12 months. You are missing the point of my post. A stadium owned by the promoter is no guarantee of continuance, was my point! It was in response to the suggestion that speedway suffers closure, due to most promoters being tenants of a stadium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said: You are missing the point of my post. A stadium owned by the promoter is no guarantee of continuance, was my point! It was in response to the suggestion that speedway suffers closure, due to most promoters being tenants of a stadium. I've just re-read Reg Fearman's excellent book and that's something he highlighted when he broached the subject of stadium ownership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 hours ago, steve roberts said: I've just re-read Reg Fearman's excellent book and that's something he highlighted when he broached the subject of stadium ownership. Actually, I could have added Stuart Bamforth of Belle Vue. He owned Hyde Road, but 'sold out'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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