Odsal

[Brian Buck]

That 1938 Leeds team began the season as Nottingham (promoted by Arthur Westwood who also promoted the pre-war Birmingham track at Hall Green). Mid-way hrough the season, Nottingham's crowds declined sharply, so Westwood transferred the operation to Leeds.

[Halifordukesfan]

3 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

I think Leeds did try running speedway many many years ago, unless it was another track calling itself 'Leeds'. Mind you, I think most of the thinking on here is the occasional use of the track, as regular use will be the stocks. It seems these days, the barriers against running speedway, go far beyond an existing shale track which is going begging.  

I agree, weekly speedway at Odsal would be instant failure but a season of perhaps individual, showcase events, like stock cars, could be the answer, an independant neutral track for play off's or the fours meeting etc, do both leagues on the same day, mind you that would lead to some riders riding for two teams, could get complicated. Odsal needs to think outside the current, severely dated speedway box.

[Trees]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:42 PM, Halifordukesfan said:

I agree, weekly speedway at Odsal would be instant failure but a season of perhaps individual, showcase events, like stock cars, could be the answer, an independant neutral track for play off's or the fours meeting etc, do both leagues on the same day, mind you that would lead to some riders riding for two teams, could get complicated. Odsal needs to think outside the current, severely dated speedway box.

So there's no Bradford or potential Bradford speedway fans anymore?

 

[25yearfan]

Bradford Dukes won the first Elite League in 1997 with an awesome team featuring Havelock, Loram and Screen yet most of the crowds were below 1000 even some I believe were below 500. British speedway crowds in 1997 were bigger than crowd figures from 2019.

 

Probably the biggest game changer in West Yorkshire speedway was when League speedway finished at the Shay Grounds, Halifax at the end of 1985. I know there was circumstances there with having to move floodlight pylons in order to comply with new regulations and then being offered Odsal rent free, but Halifax Dukes speedway were an institution in the Town and had a decent hardcore support, indeed the speedway was the Towns best supported sport. Apparently Halifax averaged 3000 in 85 at the Shay while Bradford averaged 1000 in 86 at Odsal. 

 

I'm sure if speedway could have stayed at the Shay after 1985 then maybe the ground changes that took place there in the 1990's wouldn't have happened and the sport would still be staged there up to present times. I'm sure that speedway in Halifax would likely still be attracting some of the best crowds in Britsh speedway.  

If only Odsal could be transported over to Halifax.

 

To summarise staging League speedway at Odsal would almost certainly not attract viable crowds but certainly with the shale track in place it could be viable for one off events, while a track in Halifax is the best hope for League racing in that part of the World.

Edited May 4, 2021 by 25yearfan

[Halifordukesfan]

12 hours ago, Trees said:

So there's no Bradford or potential Bradford speedway fans anymore?

 

There will be a few previous fans who would return, myself included, though now living in Lincolnshire, I would have to be selective, certainly couldn't make a weekly trip, many older Bradford fans have probably sadly departed. Bradford would somehow have to attract a new audience, a new name to start with, Dukes has run it's course, maybe even a county name rather than Bradford, it's worked elsewhere, Sheffield may protest but that's their problem, get kids involved, 1 lap bicycle races, all ages on 125 & 250cc motorbikes, extras every 4 races, keep the entertainment rolling, social media, think outside the box, the current box is broken.

[Halifordukesfan]

11 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

Bradford Dukes won the first Elite League in 1997 with an awesome team featuring Havelock, Loram and Screen yet most of the crowds were below 1000 even some I believe were below 500. British speedway crowds in 1997 were bigger than crowd figures from 2019.

 

Probably the biggest game changer in West Yorkshire speedway was when League speedway finished at the Shay Grounds, Halifax at the end of 1985. I know there was circumstances there with having to move floodlight pylons in order to comply with new regulations and then being offered Odsal rent free, but Halifax Dukes speedway were an institution in the Town and had a decent hardcore support, indeed the speedway was the Towns best supported sport. Apparently Halifax averaged 3000 in 85 at the Shay while Bradford averaged 1000 in 86 at Odsal. 

 

I'm sure if speedway could have stayed at the Shay after 1985 then maybe the ground changes that took place there in the 1990's wouldn't have happened and the sport would still be staged there up to present times. I'm sure that speedway in Halifax would likely still be attracting some of the best crowds in Britsh speedway.  

If only Odsal could transported over to Halifax.

 

To summarise staging League speedway at Odsal would almost certainly not attract viable crowds but certainly with the shale track in place it could be viable for one off events, while a track in Halifax is the best hope for League racing in that part of the World.

Agree, a nice small track similar to Redcar or Scunthorpe to produce good racing, would probably work but you've still got to attract a new audience, 36 years on, many previous fans will have departed to other pastures. One other point is Halifax had the greatest crowd puller in Kenny Carter, crowds would have dropped at Halifax after his departure.

[noaksey]

13 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

 

I'm sure if speedway could have stayed at the Shay after 1985 then maybe the ground changes that took place there in the 1990's wouldn't have happened and the sport would still be staged there up to present times. I'm sure that speedway in Halifax would likely still be attracting some of the best crowds in Britsh speedway.  

If only Odsal could transported over to Halifax.

 

To summarise staging League speedway at Odsal would almost certainly not attract viable crowds but certainly with the shale track in place it could be viable for one off events, while a track in Halifax is the best hope for League racing in that part of the World.

Certainly Berwick are proof that speedway can survive in a football stadium however it's hard to see how it could have at the Shay given the complete redevelopment undertaken by Halifax Town.

[foamfence]

7 hours ago, noaksey said:

Certainly Berwick are proof that speedway can survive in a football stadium however it's hard to see how it could have at the Shay given the complete redevelopment undertaken by Halifax Town.

The redevelopment was by the council and they offered the speedway (by then at Odsal) a place in it, they refused so no track was included.

[Fromafar]

16 hours ago, noaksey said:

Certainly Berwick are proof that speedway can survive in a football stadium however it's hard to see how it could have at the Shay given the complete redevelopment undertaken by Halifax Town.

It surely depends largely on when the rental deal is for the Stadium.

[eric i]

The owners are desperate to make odsal pay they will want the best rental price they can get from the speedway, even with weekly crowds of 500 a promoter could come to deal and make this work. 

[iris123]

15 minutes ago, eric i said:

The owners are desperate to make odsal pay they will want the best rental price they can get from the speedway, even with weekly crowds of 500 a promoter could come to deal and make this work. 

You seem to contradict yourself there

The owners either want the best rental price or a speedway promoter can get a right bargain. It is one or the other 

[eric i]

4 minutes ago, iris123 said:

You seem to contradict yourself there

The owners either want the best rental price or a speedway promoter can get a right bargain. It is one or the other 

I didn't say the speedway promoter can get a right bargain but the owners need the rental money and they will just rent to the speedway promoter who will pay the most.

[iris123]

2 minutes ago, eric i said:

I didn't say the speedway promoter can get a right bargain but the owners need the rental money and they will just rent to the speedway promoter who will pay the most.

Exactly. You didn’t say that, but said they could make a crowd of 500 pay !!! You aren’t making sense economically 

[Ringitsneck]

33 minutes ago, eric i said:

The owners are desperate to make odsal pay they will want the best rental price they can get from the speedway, even with weekly crowds of 500 a promoter could come to deal and make this work. 

With your estimated crowd figure and the rumoured cost of rent you expect the ‘ promoter ‘ to pay his running costs including riders wages, ref, maintenance costs and staff out off around £3,000 of left over income and still have a profit with no extra coming from food or drink outlets ?

Think again....

[Racin Jason 72]

Rent is rumoured to be 4K per meeting.  Huge risk for any promotion 

[eric i]

10 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Exactly. You didn’t say that, but said they could make a crowd of 500 pay !!! You aren’t making sense economically 

I didn't say they could make it pay I said they could make it work. Its not unusual for a promoter to bankroll a team, that's not to say it couldn't make money that would depend on the rental cost. The rental cost would depend on how much competition there is from other speedway promoters, I think the rumoured cost of rent is just the owners seeing if anyone will bite. Of course there will be a minimum amount of rent the owners will accept i.e enough to cover basic expenses caused by the speedway.

[iris123]

2 minutes ago, eric i said:

I didn't say they could make it pay I said they could make it work. Its not unusual for a promoter to bankroll a team, that's not to say it couldn't make money that would depend on the rental cost. The rental cost would depend on how much competition there is from other speedway promoters, I think the rumoured cost of rent is just the owners seeing if anyone will bite. Of course there will be a minimum amount of rent the owners will accept i.e enough to cover basic expenses caused by the speedway.

Like I and others have pointed out. Maybe look back at your last couple of posts and see they don’t really make sense unless we have a promoter who is willing to live in a fantasy world and has money to burn

[eric i]

11 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Like I and others have pointed out. Maybe look back at your last couple of posts and see they don’t really make sense unless we have a promoter who is willing to live in a fantasy world and has money to burn

I guess we will see next year.

[25yearfan]

13 hours ago, foamfence said:

The redevelopment was by the council and they offered the speedway (by then at Odsal) a place in it, they refused so no track was included.

I never knew this!

 

Another massive error of judgement in the history of British speedway. Like I said before Halifax was well supported a hotbed on a par with the likes of Cradley and Coventry. - The 1986 - 1997 Bradford Dukes era was largely a story of bankrolling by the local Council and the Ham brothers to compensate for unviable crowd levels. - I'm sure that had speedway been reintroduced to a redeveloped Shay grounds in Halifax in the early 90's it would still be operating today and probably in the top flight. I wonder why the Ham brothers didn't take the opportunity to move back to a stadium in an area that undoubtedly would have supported speedway in greater numbers?

Edited May 4, 2021 by 25yearfan

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 hour ago, 25yearfan said:

I wonder why the Ham brothers didn't take the opportunity to move back to a stadium in an area that undoubtedly would have supported speedway in greater numbers?

Wasn't there some idea that Odsal was going to become the new 'Wembley' of British Speedway, and that staging elite league speedway in such a venue would pull the crowds?

The reality is that speedway thrived in some odd places (e.g. King's Lynn), and failed in some places that should in theory have much bigger catchments.