Odsal

[mikebv]

Have they finished putting that roof on yet?

[Grand Central]

On 5/4/2021 at 6:16 AM, foamfence said:

The redevelopment was by the council and they offered the speedway (by then at Odsal) a place in it, they refused so no track was included.

Please can you give more details on this offer ... I have no memory of ever hearing of this at the time or since.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Grand Central

[George Dodds]

20 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Please can you give more details on this offer ... I have no memory of ever hearing of this at the time or since.

Also curious.

From memory all terraced areas were closed after The Popplewell Report into the Bradford City fire. Capacity of The Shay in 1985 was under 2,000 so speedway would have been struggling anyway there and it may have had something to do with switching to a stadium which met "modern" safety criteria. Also remember plans to build a supermarket on The Shay and a new ground at a nearby leisure centre. Another was for a smaller ground to be built on the site and the rest redeveloped - a bit like Crayford stadium. The council owned the lease, the football club was a financial basket case. If any offer was made to the speedway I suspect it would have involved them bringing a substantial amount of money to the table - probably a bit like Startrax at Odsal.

I seem to recall that there was little change to the stadium configuration until the rugby club sold Thrum Hall and moved in at The Shay in the late 1990s so speedway could have returned, even after it had ended at Odsal. Perhaps the sums never added up.   

[foamfence]

43 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Please can you give more details on this offer ... I have no memory of ever hearing of this at the time or since.

I remember someone from Halifax (think it was council) coming to Odsal and speaking to the Hams about Speedway returning to the Shay, they declined the offer and so the redevelopment took place without the inclusion of a Speedway track.

[foamfence]

13 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

I never knew this!

 

Another massive error of judgement in the history of British speedway. Like I said before Halifax was well supported a hotbed on a par with the likes of Cradley and Coventry. - The 1986 - 1997 Bradford Dukes era was largely a story of bankrolling by the local Council and the Ham brothers to compensate for unviable crowd levels. - I'm sure that had speedway been reintroduced to a redeveloped Shay grounds in Halifax in the early 90's it would still be operating today and probably in the top flight. I wonder why the Ham brothers didn't take the opportunity to move back to a stadium in an area that undoubtedly would have supported speedway in greater numbers?

Probably because they got the pick of the top events at Odsal.

[George Dodds]

2 minutes ago, foamfence said:

I remember someone from Halifax (think it was council) coming to Odsal and speaking to the Hams about Speedway returning to the Shay, they declined the offer and so the redevelopment took place without the inclusion of a Speedway track.

maybe the terms weren't attractive - something along the lines of "you bail out the football club, pay to bring the stadium up to acceptable standard and we'll allow you to take on the financial burden of the lease - and hope that the fans who wouldn't make the short trip to Bradford will pay to watch you in Halifax". Hardly a cast-iron opportunity

[Grand Central]

3 minutes ago, foamfence said:

I remember someone from Halifax (think it was council) coming to Odsal and speaking to the Hams about Speedway returning to the Shay, they declined the offer and so the redevelopment took place without the inclusion of a Speedway track.

I was thinking of something a little more factual than 'somebody from Halifax (I think it was the council)' ... Doesn't really add to my understanding at all

[foamfence]

1 minute ago, George Dodds said:

maybe the terms weren't attractive - something along the lines of "you bail out the football club, pay to bring the stadium up to acceptable standard and we'll allow you to take on the financial burden of the lease - and hope that the fans who wouldn't make the short trip to Bradford will pay to watch you in Halifax". Hardly a cast-iron opportunity

I don't know, I would be guessing but I do remember the representing party visiting Odsal.

[Grand Central]

4 minutes ago, George Dodds said:

maybe the terms weren't attractive - something along the lines of "you bail out the football club, pay to bring the stadium up to acceptable standard and we'll allow you to take on the financial burden of the lease - and hope that the fans who wouldn't make the short trip to Bradford will pay to watch you in Halifax". Hardly a cast-iron opportunity

That's just it ... I don't think ANYTHING along those lines came within a million miles of the narrative at the time, as far as Calderdale were concerned.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Grand Central

[foamfence]

1 minute ago, Grand Central said:

I was thinking of something a little more factual than 'somebody from Halifax (I think it was the council)' ... Doesn't really add to my understanding at all

Well that's all and I'm certainly not a liar.

[Grand Central]

1 minute ago, foamfence said:

Well that's all and I'm certainly not a liar.

I don't doubt that. But I still don't believe that Calderdale ever made any form of real offer for Speedway to go back; in preference to the North and South stand construction in 1997ish that squared off the stadium for football and rugby. That was the only plan on the table.

[George Dodds]

39 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

I don't doubt that. But I still don't believe that Calderdale ever made any form of real offer for Speedway to go back; in preference to the North and South stand construction in 1997ish that squared off the stadium for football and rugby. That was the only plan on the table.

The football club was desperately trying to find money from anywhere at the time - developers, finance firms and the usual shysters. I'm sure they would have taken the odd million off the Hams if they'd offered. To try and pass that off as "another huge missed opportunity for speedway" is fanciful to say the least and along the lines of the "John Berry would have saved speedway if they hadn't stopped him".  Just good old fashioned bit of idle speculation based on unattributed whispers, tales and hearsay. The only thing missing is facts. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by George Dodds

[Piotr Pyszny]

10 hours ago, George Dodds said:

Also curious.

From memory all terraced areas were closed after The Popplewell Report into the Bradford City fire. Capacity of The Shay in 1985 was under 2,000 so speedway would have been struggling anyway there and it may have had something to do with switching to a stadium which met "modern" safety criteria. Also remember plans to build a supermarket on The Shay and a new ground at a nearby leisure centre. Another was for a smaller ground to be built on the site and the rest redeveloped - a bit like Crayford stadium. The council owned the lease, the football club was a financial basket case. If any offer was made to the speedway I suspect it would have involved them bringing a substantial amount of money to the table - probably a bit like Startrax at Odsal.

I seem to recall that there was little change to the stadium configuration until the rugby club sold Thrum Hall and moved in at The Shay in the late 1990s so speedway could have returned, even after it had ended at Odsal. Perhaps the sums never added up.   

The closure of all terraced areas at The Shay in 1985 lasted just three early-season Halifax Town FC games. By January 1986, Halifax RLFC, hiring the ground on a one-off basis for a First Division game with Widnes, because of problems with the Thrum Hall floodlights, attracted a 6,385 crowd to The Shay (more than double any crowd Halifax Dukes attracted during their final season, 1985).

The speedway club, incidentally, were sub-tenants of the football club, who chose to hike the rent circa 1985 - one of several factors in the Dukes leaving for Odsal. £25,000 is the figure that sticks in my mind.

The Shay was reconfigured quite a few years before the rugby league club began sharing the stadium in 1998. The first and second bend area was removed circa 1990. It was replaced with a gently inclined open standing area. In 1996, a stand was built on the site of the third and fourth bends. Later that year, an identical stand replaced the open standing area at the opposite end of the ground.

 

[cityrebel]

1 hour ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

The closure of all terraced areas at The Shay in 1985 lasted just three early-season Halifax Town FC games. By January 1986, Halifax RLFC, hiring the ground on a one-off basis for a First Division game with Widnes, because of problems with the Thrum Hall floodlights, attracted a 6,385 crowd to The Shay (more than double any crowd Halifax Dukes attracted during their final season, 1985).

The speedway club, incidentally, were sub-tenants of the football club, who chose to hike the rent circa 1985 - one of several factors in the Dukes leaving for Odsal. £25,000 is the figure that sticks in my mind.

The Shay was reconfigured quite a few years before the rugby league club began sharing the stadium in 1998. The first and second bend area was removed circa 1990. It was replaced with a gently inclined open standing area. In 1996, a stand was built on the site of the third and fourth bends. Later that year, an identical stand replaced the open standing area at the opposite end of the ground.

 

The attendance seemed very big for the Belle Vue meeting, run after the 1985 word final. At the time i thought it was Halifax's biggest crowd in years.

[Grand Central]

12 hours ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

The closure of all terraced areas at The Shay in 1985 lasted just three early-season Halifax Town FC games. By January 1986, Halifax RLFC, hiring the ground on a one-off basis for a First Division game with Widnes, because of problems with the Thrum Hall floodlights, attracted a 6,385 crowd to The Shay (more than double any crowd Halifax Dukes attracted during their final season, 1985).

The speedway club, incidentally, were sub-tenants of the football club, who chose to hike the rent circa 1985 - one of several factors in the Dukes leaving for Odsal. £25,000 is the figure that sticks in my mind.

The Shay was reconfigured quite a few years before the rugby league club began sharing the stadium in 1998. The first and second bend area was removed circa 1990. It was replaced with a gently inclined open standing area. In 1996, a stand was built on the site of the third and fourth bends. Later that year, an identical stand replaced the open standing area at the opposite end of the ground.

 

As some one else has stated the crowd for the 85 belle vue meeting was quite a bit more than half of 6385.

But the rest of your post is spot on and just bolsters my opinion that a return to The Shay in the nineties was NEVER a realistic possibility no matter what others are saying now, due to the changes already occurring to the configuration; and greater changes in the planning process as well.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Grand Central

[Piotr Pyszny]

4 hours ago, Grand Central said:

As some one else has stated the crowd for the 85 belle vue meeting was quite a bit more than half of 6385.

But the rest of your post is spot on and just bolsters my opinion that a return to The Shay in the nineties was NEVER a realistic possibility no matter what others are saying now, due to the changes already occurring to the configuration; and greater changes in the planning process as well.

I seem to remember Dukes promoter Eric Boothroyd saying the 1985 average crowd at The Shay pushed 3,500.

I've got a copy of the 'Memories of Halifax Speedway' DVD. It's a while since I've watched it, but I recall Eric dealing in some detail with the move to Odsal.

Pretty sure Eric reckoned he lost a thousand spectators overnight then another 600-800 on Kenny Carter's death.

[Grand Central]

25 minutes ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

I seem to remember Dukes promoter Eric Boothroyd saying the 1985 average crowd at The Shay pushed 3,500.

I've got a copy of the 'Memories of Halifax Speedway' DVD. It's a while since I've watched it, but I recall Eric dealing in some detail with the move to Odsal.

Pretty sure Eric reckoned he lost a thousand spectators overnight then another 600-800 on Kenny Carter's death.

Yes I have a similar memory of all that ... The belle vue meeting after the world final would have dragged the 85 average up ... On its own it must have been 5000+,

[steve roberts]

On 5/5/2021 at 8:46 PM, Piotr Pyszny said:

The closure of all terraced areas at The Shay in 1985 lasted just three early-season Halifax Town FC games. By January 1986, Halifax RLFC, hiring the ground on a one-off basis for a First Division game with Widnes, because of problems with the Thrum Hall floodlights, attracted a 6,385 crowd to The Shay (more than double any crowd Halifax Dukes attracted during their final season, 1985).

The speedway club, incidentally, were sub-tenants of the football club, who chose to hike the rent circa 1985 - one of several factors in the Dukes leaving for Odsal. £25,000 is the figure that sticks in my mind.

The Shay was reconfigured quite a few years before the rugby league club began sharing the stadium in 1998. The first and second bend area was removed circa 1990. It was replaced with a gently inclined open standing area. In 1996, a stand was built on the site of the third and fourth bends. Later that year, an identical stand replaced the open standing area at the opposite end of the ground.

 

I remember when I popped into the Shay c2009 I couldn't imagine how the track once fitted around the pitch. All evidence of a once speedway track had disappeared.

[Ray Stadia]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I remember when I popped into the Shay c2009 I couldn't imagine how the track once fitted around the pitch. All evidence of a once speedway track had disappeared.

I had to go to the Halifax area in 1985, on business and took the opportunity to see the stadium 'upfront and personal'. I thought it was a lovely stadium! When I heard the Hams were moving the Dukes from Halifax to Bradford (Odsal), I did question in my own mind the eventual wisdom. 

[25yearfan]

Like I alluded  to in an earlier post, the 1985 exit from the Shay Grounds was the beginning of the end for speedway in West Yorkshire though I do appreciate that financial issues (expense of moving floodlights to comply with new regulations and the Shay landlords hiking up the rent while Odsal was offered rent free) at the time were why the Halifax to Bradford move was made.

 

I wonder had speedway continued at the Shay after 1985 whether the 1990's stadium redevelopments would have taken place or maybe stadium redevelopments would have included keeping the speedway track?

 

I still maintain that had Halifax kept going at the Shay and stadium developments would of included speedway then Halifax speedway would still be running up to present times and more than likely would still be one of the best attended tracks in the Country. - I also say the same about Bristol (closed 1977), Cradley (lost Stadium in 1995) and Coventry which closed in 2016.

 

- Now how much healthier would speedway look today if the sport was still staged in Bristol, Coventry, Cradley and Halifax?  

Edited May 10, 2021 by 25yearfan