porkypotter Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 6 hours ago, teaboy279 said: I think it was 2014 when ben Wilson returned to the sport riding for Stoke I recall, and thier season was ruined when they had to let him go when Sheffield signed wilson in the then Premier league. On a similar note, I feel with the doubling up and indeed in Perks case tripling up. That a rule that should be brought in immediately is which ever club signs a rider first SHOULD HAVE PRIORITY for his availability. got to agree with you there teaboy. I well remember the ben Wilson situation and it took the wind out of stokes sails. I am all for good riders getting on but why is it always the ndl sides that have to suffer on date clashes. we have already lost joe Lawlor and conor coles for matches this season and no doubt they will miss plenty more between them. in my opinion this is the fundamental flaw in our sport and unlike football fans who live and breath their team there is very little team ethos for us as it changes from week to week. the sport has dug itself into a deep hole on rider availability but the big question is how do we get out of it. also agree on the ellis perks situation and feel he should withdraw from the ndl once he is riding the prem. oh well onwards and upwards. up the potters (whoever the 7 riders may be this week ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Others will disagree but for me out third division is essentially a training league and the more riders who are able to step up to the second tier the better, it means the National League is doing it’s job well. And surely if there is a clash then the senior league is where the rider should be, where his development will be best served. I recognise that the NL club will miss said rider, would they get a guest as things stand or R/R? Perhaps guests need to be granted more widely to cover riders who have progressed to the Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, porkypotter said: got to agree with you there teaboy. I well remember the ben Wilson situation and it took the wind out of stokes sails. I am all for good riders getting on but why is it always the ndl sides that have to suffer on date clashes. we have already lost joe Lawlor and conor coles for matches this season and no doubt they will miss plenty more between them. in my opinion this is the fundamental flaw in our sport and unlike football fans who live and breath their team there is very little team ethos for us as it changes from week to week. the sport has dug itself into a deep hole on rider availability but the big question is how do we get out of it. also agree on the ellis perks situation and feel he should withdraw from the ndl once he is riding the prem. oh well onwards and upwards. up the potters (whoever the 7 riders may be this week ) Similar has just happened to Plymouth. With Adam Extance out for the season after his crash at Kent,Plymouth already have big problems covering for him. Its been announced by Mark Phillips on the Plymouth Forum that he had a call from Redcar to say David Wallinger has signed for them! (not allowed to post the link, their webmaster is touchy about such things). Stuffs Plymouth right up as they both ride on Fridays. Edited August 13, 2019 by BobC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 The prevention of riders doubling up from the NDL or higher leagues taking priority will ultimately come at a cost. When Eastbourne were last in the league they did not sign any riders who were doubling up (and insisted upon it). Others will follow suit if they lose the priority time and time again especially if it see's their seasons suffer as a result. I can see teams being built full of mediocre riders who are unlikely to step up to the next division conquering over the season against teams with double uppers who miss a multitude of meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 8 hours ago, teaboy279 said: I think it was 2014 when ben Wilson returned to the sport riding for Stoke I recall, and thier season was ruined when they had to let him go when Sheffield signed wilson in the then Premier league. On a similar note, I feel with the doubling up and indeed in Perks case tripling up. That a rule that should be brought in immediately is which ever club signs a rider first SHOULD HAVE PRIORITY for his availability. Crazy situation, taking the Perks case, Leicester have Connor Mountain who is riding in just the CL - with an average lower than that of Ellis Perks - yet Perks carries on riding for Leicester Cubs whilst Mountain would probably benefit from having more matches, if he's available of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkypotter Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 32 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: Others will disagree but for me out third division is essentially a training league and the more riders who are able to step up to the second tier the better, it means the National League is doing it’s job well. And surely if there is a clash then the senior league is where the rider should be, where his development will be best served. I recognise that the NL club will miss said rider, would they get a guest as things stand or R/R? Perhaps guests need to be granted more widely to cover riders who have progressed to the Championship. hi bagpuss. of course riders should be encouraged to develop no argument there but it is when match dates collide the problems begin. again it all comes down to team ethos or lack of it. guests are hit and miss and chances are that same rider will be against you in the next match. I am sure far more intelligent men than me can not solve this problem but I still think there are plenty of chances to ride in a higher league when the rider is available. in the mean time national league fans are being a bit short changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, BobC said: Similar has just happened to Plymouth. With Adam Extance out for the season after his crash at Kent,Plymouth already have big problems covering for him. Its been announced by Mark Phillips on the Plymouth Forum that he had a call from Redcar to say David Wallinger has signed for them! (not allowed to post the link, their webmaster is touchy about such things). Stuffs Plymouth right up as they both ride on Fridays. Ridiculous situation. His signing should never have been sanctioned as the clubs run on the same day. I hope Plymouth immediately part company with Wally as he has screwed them over several times this season. His arrogance and delusion that he belongs in the Championship is laughable but hopefully all other sides see him for who he is and this will be the last season he irritates fans and promoters alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaboy279 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 It's the same as when Ipswich signed Nathan Greaves who rode for the Warriors. And Chris Louis then had the audacity to say he didnt realise IOW was a Thursday club..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, teaboy279 said: I think it was 2014 when ben Wilson returned to the sport riding for Stoke I recall, and thier season was ruined when they had to let him go when Sheffield signed wilson in the then Premier league. On a similar note, I feel with the doubling up and indeed in Perks case tripling up. That a rule that should be brought in immediately is which ever club signs a rider first SHOULD HAVE PRIORITY for his availability. Yep I remember the Wilson incident. He then had a PL average of over 4.00 which was too high to allow him to DU but he was allowed to ride NL only at the start of the season! The rules changed because of it. 3 hours ago, Bagpuss said: Others will disagree but for me out third division is essentially a training league and the more riders who are able to step up to the second tier the better, it means the National League is doing it’s job well. And surely if there is a clash then the senior league is where the rider should be, where his development will be best served. I recognise that the NL club will miss said rider, would they get a guest as things stand or R/R? Perhaps guests need to be granted more widely to cover riders who have progressed to the Championship. All riders who are missing because of higher leagues clashes can be covered by a ‘guest’. This was brought in about 2 winters ago. 32 minutes ago, teaboy279 said: It's the same as when Ipswich signed Nathan Greaves who rode for the Warriors. And Chris Louis then had the audacity to say he didnt realise IOW was a Thursday club..... Yes and that was early in the season too, in about April time, when all the decent riders had been signed up and how the Warriors set the team up it looked like Greaves would be a big improved. Which he was that season! I’m all for riders stepping up but it should be compulsory that they cannot sign for a team with the same race night. Edited August 13, 2019 by Islander15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaboy279 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 I just think it's simple, if you sign for Buxton first they have priority. Even if Poole then sign the same rider mid season, the original club must get priority. A simple fix that would cost nothing and add some credibility to the doubling up system. For the record it works both ways, if a rider signs for Scunthorpe first, and has a bit of a dip and takes a NL birth at Stoke to regain confidence, then Scunthorpe should always have priority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 All the above makes sense. As stated above if a rider signs for Redcar first then Stoke, Redcar get priority. If Redcar drop said rider and then Scunthorpe signs them Stoke get priority as they signed the rider first. The simple solution however it is likely to see the birth of 2+ year contracts offered to riders and advance signings. For example Scunthorpe have already stated they want to include Palin in their 2020 side, its likely that Belle Vue would also but technically Scunny have him signed first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 hours ago, teaboy279 said: It's the same as when Ipswich signed Nathan Greaves who rode for the Warriors. And Chris Louis then had the audacity to say he didnt realise IOW was a Thursday club..... Unlike in this scenario, a precedent has been set today with the BSPA refusing Wallinger’s move to Redcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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