Speedway Promotion or Lack of it.

[AndyK86]

I think we have to start with getting the product right, bring it back fully to a semi professional sport to start with and create a league system which will benefit all clubs not just the few.

Encourage signed riders to get out in the towns and cities through winter and more importantly just before season starts as the more interest they drum up the more potential fans come through gates and all of a sudden rider pay will start to creep up again etc

But the product has to be right, the tracks have to be prepared well and then we have a chance of keeping hold of the new fans.

 

[IainB]

23 hours ago, greyhoundp said:

Yesterday i had to make a delivery to Hinckley Point (Power Station) all visitors to the site are required to have an escort, The person escorting me was a young guy who would be about 25 years old, and lives in Bridgewater, last week he went to watch his footy team over at Cardiff, he said there isnt a lot happening in Bridgewater and its 40+ miles up to Bristol, naturally i asked him how often he goes to the Oaktree arena, he looked at me gone out, wheres that ? i said just up the road on the A38, why whats there ? Speedway, Speedway whats that ?.

    This is the problem with our Sport Promoters simply do NOT do enough to get the Sport out there..

If he didn't know about the OTA  just up the road there's no way he's going to have seen Leicester's latest promotional angle... which is "Please come and support us"

[mikebv]

A big trick missed for me is how the "prize money" is sold to the general public..

Obviously not being privy to exact figures but reading between the lines (and what Matt Ford say Poole lost overall recently v Ipswich), I would think circa £20k is paid out per meeting to 14 riders in the top league..

A huge amount I would suggest given the very tiny standing of the sport and one which would stop a good many non fans in their tracks if they knew, and might maybe spur them on into taking a closer interest..?

Maybe there should be (if the £20k per night for two teams is approx correct) a £20k purse each meeting split £12k to winners and £8k to losers?

Most meetings are won by the home team, so home and away should still see a team pick up the average £10k most weeks..

Would also deliver performance pay too, and maybe inspire more efforts away from home to get the higher purse? Which can only be good for the overall entertainment package.

It would also deliver a presentation each meeting with an interview with the Captains to discuss the match, one team "delighted" with the money won, one team, "disappointed" etc..

You could even do a rider of the night award where the main sponsor and, if seperate, the meeting sponsor, combine to put up a £'s award.

eg if a company puts £10k in per season then over 20 matches that's £500 a match, therefore put that up each week and give them prime time advertising every week, and if you have a meeting sponsored separate at say £500, then add that to it and make £1000 that the ' rider of the night' or 'most entertaining rider' gets. (Or maybe £500 each if you want to run both).

You could even get the fans to text in to vote for the awards.

The sport pays out literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds every season, yet never uses it to make its product sound "big time"...

It needs to start shouting..

 

[NeilWatson]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

A big trick missed for me is how the "prize money" is sold to the general public..

Obviously not being privy to exact figures but reading between the lines (and what Matt Ford say Poole lost overall recently v Ipswich), I would think circa £20k is paid out per meeting to 14 riders in the top league..

A huge amount I would suggest given the very tiny standing of the sport and one which would stop a good many non fans in their tracks if they knew, and might maybe spur them on into taking a closer interest..?

Maybe there should be (if the £20k per night for two teams is approx correct) a £20k purse each meeting split £12k to winners and £8k to losers?

Most meetings are won by the home team, so home and away should still see a team pick up the average £10k most weeks..

Would also deliver performance pay too, and maybe inspire more efforts away from home to get the higher purse? Which can only be good for the overall entertainment package.

It would also deliver a presentation each meeting with an interview with the Captains to discuss the match, one team "delighted" with the money won, one team, "disappointed" etc..

You could even do a rider of the night award where the main sponsor and, if seperate, the meeting sponsor, combine to put up a £'s award.

eg if a company puts £10k in per season then over 20 matches that's £500 a match, therefore put that up each week and give them prime time advertising every week, and if you have a meeting sponsored separate at say £500, then add that to it and make £1000 that the ' rider of the night' or 'most entertaining rider' gets. (Or maybe £500 each if you want to run both).

You could even get the fans to text in to vote for the awards.

The sport pays out literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds every season, yet never uses it to make its product sound "big time"...

It needs to start shouting..

 

Each Club pays its own riders home and away of course, so a home meeting needs to cover rider pay for one home and one away meeting. A good rule of thumb is 100 points home and away, in my opinion £20k would be right at the top of the range; for a Premiership Club paying more than average and scoring well home and away (hence successful, which should enhance the crowd).  Around £12k would be nearer the mark.

Edited August 8, 2019 by NeilWatson

[topaz325]

On 8/7/2019 at 4:29 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

Chicken and egg time.

If a club has no money , and just about every club is losing money every week, then how do you spend money you haven't got on trying to get enough new people to come through the turnstiles to even cover the cost of your advertising?

Glasgow openly admit to spending £100,000 on advertising last year and it made no difference whatsoever to the average size of their crowd.

Its alright saying speculate to accumulate but it didn't work in Glasgow .

 

Although the advertising Glasgow are prepared to do is great , advertising and generally letting the public know about speedway can be done relatively cheaply ie Facebook, social media , even doing small promotional videos via a mobile phone can be achieved.

This small amount of advertising is not the total answer which has already been stated by other posters but a national push to make people aware of the sport.

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, NeilWatson said:

Each Club pays its own riders home and away of course, so a home meeting needs to cover rider pay for one home and one away meeting. A good rule of thumb is 100 points home and away, in my opinion £20k would be right at the top of the range; for a Club paying more than average and scoring well home and away (hence successful, which should enhance the crowd).  Around £12k would be nearer the mark.

Try going lower.

Budget for the average Championship team wage bill for 2 matches ( 1 home, one away ) would be around 7-8 thousand, 

less if you get beaten !

[NeilWatson]

1 hour ago, NeilWatson said:

Each Club pays its own riders home and away of course, so a home meeting needs to cover rider pay for one home and one away meeting. A good rule of thumb is 100 points home and away, in my opinion £20k would be right at the top of the range; for a Club paying more than average and scoring well home and away (hence successful, which should enhance the crowd).  Around £12k would be nearer the mark.

 

6 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Try going lower.

Budget for the average Championship team wage bill for 2 matches ( 1 home, one away ) would be around 7-8 thousand, 

less if you get beaten !

I should have specified that my figures were for the Premiership, your figures for the Championship are about right.

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, NeilWatson said:

Each Club pays its own riders home and away of course, so a home meeting needs to cover rider pay for one home and one away meeting. A good rule of thumb is 100 points home and away, in my opinion £20k would be right at the top of the range; for a Club paying more than average and scoring well home and away (hence successful, which should enhance the crowd).  Around £12k would be nearer the mark.

Still a fair few quid to have as prize money Neil..

Maybe £7k to the winners and £5k to the losers..?

With 90 matches a season in the top league, Inc play offs then you could advertise the league as having over a Milllion pound of prize money to be won....

Quite a selling point I would suggest..

[Fortythirtyeight]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

A big trick missed for me is how the "prize money" is sold to the general public..

Obviously not being privy to exact figures but reading between the lines (and what Matt Ford say Poole lost overall recently v Ipswich), I would think circa £20k is paid out per meeting to 14 riders in the top league..

A huge amount I would suggest given the very tiny standing of the sport and one which would stop a good many non fans in their tracks if they knew, and might maybe spur them on into taking a closer interest..?

Maybe there should be (if the £20k per night for two teams is approx correct) a £20k purse each meeting split £12k to winners and £8k to losers?

Most meetings are won by the home team, so home and away should still see a team pick up the average £10k most weeks..

Would also deliver performance pay too, and maybe inspire more efforts away from home to get the higher purse? Which can only be good for the overall entertainment package.

It would also deliver a presentation each meeting with an interview with the Captains to discuss the match, one team "delighted" with the money won, one team, "disappointed" etc..

You could even do a rider of the night award where the main sponsor and, if seperate, the meeting sponsor, combine to put up a £'s award.

eg if a company puts £10k in per season then over 20 matches that's £500 a match, therefore put that up each week and give them prime time advertising every week, and if you have a meeting sponsored separate at say £500, then add that to it and make £1000 that the ' rider of the night' or 'most entertaining rider' gets. (Or maybe £500 each if you want to run both).

You could even get the fans to text in to vote for the awards.

The sport pays out literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds every season, yet never uses it to make its product sound "big time"...

It needs to start shouting..

 

Most if not all sponsorship money goes into keeping the club running, not into riders wages, although no doubt it may subsidise some riders ar some clubs depending how big the ' deal ' is. Average main sponsor would pay around £10-12000 for a season ( some pay less if the club is desperate)

Meeting sponsorship is around £500 at most championship tracks. Take away the actual cost of hosting the sponsors, ( drinks, Buffett, programmes etc) that doesn't leave a lot for the club or for a prize.

The sport doesn't " sound big " because it isn't.

[mikebv]

22 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Most if not all sponsorship money goes into keeping the club running, not into riders wages, although no doubt it may subsidise some riders ar some clubs depending how big the ' deal ' is. Average main sponsor would pay around £10-12000 for a season ( some pay less if the club is desperate)

Meeting sponsorship is around £500 at most championship tracks. Take away the actual cost of hosting the sponsors, ( drinks, Buffett, programmes etc) that doesn't leave a lot for the club or for a prize.

The sport doesn't " sound big " because it isn't.

But the money it pays out actually is..

Using Neil's estimates, and he is a man who will know, the Premiership alone will pay out over a Million quid!!

Change "points money" to "prize money" and maybe Speedway will look a little bit more "big time"..

So much of marketing is smoke and mirrors and staying just the right side of the truth..

Looking at the figs for the Championship that too will pay hundreds of thousands out...

So shout out about how much you can win in British Speedway..

The numbers paid out must prick interest from outside the sport if pushed hard enough and often enough and it would also give every meeting something tangible to be raced for..

No point paying out so much and letting it fly under the radar of any publicity..

Use it to promote the Sport...

Edited August 8, 2019 by mikebv

[Fortythirtyeight]

If you read Neil's response more carefully you will see he quoted £12000 average over two matches. So for the home match that makes your ' prize ' fund £7-8,000 tops? 

That isn't going to excite the public.

I welcome any ideas that might improve attendances but this doesn't appeal to me never mind someone who hasn't seen the sport.

I could be just old and set in my ways, what do you think of the idea Neil?

[Guest]

All this comment on 'how to save speedway' (or presumably the British version) bewilders me. It has failed eventually in many countries after years of 'prosperity'. Recent years have seen it fold  in New Zealand, South Africa, Canada and fade into virtual obscurity in Holland, Belgium. 

Here in the UK it staggers on (I nearly  wrote  'stagnate on'). Total nationwide UK attendees on a weekly basis probably hovers overall between 20,000 - 22,000. Time was when one club/track had a regular following that size. 

Judged on comments on this forum most people who go to speedway are in the older age group with younger people not attracted to speedway. Opinions on how to recreate interest are continually put forward but in the end it's all akin to King Canute and his efforts to turn back the waves.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, mikebv said:

But the money it pays out actually is..

Using Neil's estimates, and he is a man who will know, the Premiership alone will pay out over a Million quid!!

Change "points money" to "prize money" and maybe Speedway will look a little bit more "big time"..

So much of marketing is smoke and mirrors and staying just the right side of the truth..

Looking at the figs for the Championship that too will pay hundreds of thousands out...

So shout out about how much you can win in British Speedway..

The numbers paid out must prick interest from outside the sport if pushed hard enough and often enough and it would also give every meeting something tangible to be raced for..

No point paying out so much and letting it fly under the radar of any publicity..

Use it to promote the Sport...

Those money amounts are just small change these days in sporting terms. Look at the vast amounts paid to top class professional footballers. Several players are quoted as being paid  £300,000-plus a week. Sadly in financial terms speedway is a very poor sporting relation.

[iris123]

A 15 year old won almost a million pounds by finishing 2nd in an e-sports tournament !!! As I posted a year or so ago, this is the future and maybe speedway should try and get in on the act, just as football clubs are...

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/british-teenager-wins-1million-fortnite-18790114

[JamesHarris]

Oddly enough a few years ago I was chatting to a few Polish lads and asking them of cause if they were into speedway or Zuzul as they call it. They were also shrugging their shoulders but one of them had heard of Tomasz Gollob. So even in countries where it is one of the biggest followed sports there are some that have hardly heard of it. 

[mikebv]

15 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

If you read Neil's response more carefully you will see he quoted £12000 average over two matches. So for the home match that makes your ' prize ' fund £7-8,000 tops? 

That isn't going to excite the public.

I welcome any ideas that might improve attendances but this doesn't appeal to me never mind someone who hasn't seen the sport.

I could be just old and set in my ways, what do you think of the idea Neil?

£12k for both matches would equal £12k per meeting in that the home team puts the money up..

Exactly the same outlay..

The difference will be instead of £6k per meeting per team it could be £7k to one and £5k to the other. With the likelihood it swaps when the reverse fixture takes place..

[chunky]

On 8/8/2019 at 2:48 AM, gustix said:

Could it be speedway is like some items in a supermarket that are eventually 'taken down'? A question of it having reached its 'sell by' date? At least  so far as Britain is concerned. It's 14 years since I last saw a live speedway meeting and don't have any desire to do so now. My main interest in speedway is what are known as 'the good old days' - a period that ceased for me sometime in the late !970s.

You know, we wonder why speedway is struggling (in the UK, anyway), and then, we see posts like this...

There are quite a few on the BSF wobbling on about how sad it is to see the sport in such dire straits, but are themselves part of the reason. When people say that they have no desire to go ever again (even if it was free, in some cases), whether it is to do with the quality of entertainment, or simply because of rules that no longer apply, then you are contributing to the decline.

I'm not saying those people are wrong, but I find it a little disturbing that they still consider themselves speedway "supporters", when the reality is that WHATEVER changes and improvements are made, they are not prepared to watch because of simple stubbornness.

For me, speedway is not what it used to be. Football, cricket, and F1 are not what they used to be. Tizer, cough candy, and the dear old Curly-Wurly are not what they used to be. You know what? I still prefer to partake than going without...

Steve

[JamesHarris]

One question worth asking is does speedway need to re-brand itself (in the UK at least) to bring in a new audience? As I mentioned in my earlier post, the first thing people who are not familiar of have no knowledge of the sport think of is Speedway is some sort of car racing. A complete name change perhaps? 

One other thing that could be looked at to reduce cost and admission prices is to reduce the number of riders in a team. 5 a side has worked for Denmark. 

[Chris116]

3 minutes ago, kelvinlapworth said:

One question worth asking is does speedway need to re-brand itself (in the UK at least) to bring in a new audience? As I mentioned in my earlier post, the first thing people who are not familiar of have no knowledge of the sport think of is Speedway is some sort of car racing. A complete name change perhaps? 

It used to be called "Motorcycle Dirt Track Racing". No comments about needing some dirt on some tracks please! 

[steve roberts]

37 minutes ago, chunky said:

You know, we wonder why speedway is struggling (in the UK, anyway), and then, we see posts like this...

There are quite a few on the BSF wobbling on about how sad it is to see the sport in such dire straits, but are themselves part of the reason. When people say that they have no desire to go ever again (even if it was free, in some cases), whether it is to do with the quality of entertainment, or simply because of rules that no longer apply, then you are contributing to the decline.

I'm not saying those people are wrong, but I find it a little disturbing that they still consider themselves speedway "supporters", when the reality is that WHATEVER changes and improvements are made, they are not prepared to watch because of simple stubbornness.

For me, speedway is not what it used to be. Football, cricket, and F1 are not what they used to be. Tizer, cough candy, and the dear old Curly-Wurly are not what they used to be. You know what? I still prefer to partake than going without...

Steve

Having been a staunch fan for over thirty years if a track was to open local to me (York) would I attend? I would probably pop along and have a look see but whether I would be re-converted I can't honestly say.