Sidney the robin Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: WHAT it show is if you put 16 riders of similar ability and similar equipment on a proper race track you will get great entertainment... Spot on all 16 could mix it and that made for some really good racing, that is why i believe bringing the big hitters back to the Prem is not the answer .Run to a budget and try to field a competitive team with the funds you have available that hopefully will keep tracks in business. Edited July 31, 2019 by Sidney the robin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, stevebrum said: As already discussed he needs to drop the safety of the CL, and look at contracts in Sweden, Denmark. Just maybe he has turned a corner this season and it’s the start of something bigger happening. You appear not to understand the financial implications of ' dropping the CL'. The Championship pays him around 60% of his current wages based on number of fixtures and scores, without that he simply cannot afford to do the PL as its far too few fixtures and as his average at Peterbrough shows, no harder than the championship. Sweden is such a small league and with its fixtures and team selection rules, he's not going to get in that league and Danish league is not a step up unless he is in their Elite which also isn't going to happen for the same reasons. His Polish team haven't paid his wages for last season so he's way out of pocket there and you want him to drop 60% of his earnings? Would you? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Loose Diamond Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, foamfence said: So it WAS a poor line-up. Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: WHAT it show is if you put 16 riders of similar ability and similar equipment on a proper race track you will get great entertainment... This ^^. Not normally a fan of 'invivids' apart from the GPs but this year's Bitish Final was great with a possibly surprising yet deserving winner.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 19 hours ago, keepturningleft said: Rampant envy can be the only explanation for the odd instances of criticism of the racing and the Belle Vue track on this thread. BV is the only true, proper speedway circuit in this country and speedway fans lucky enough to live anywhere near this superb venue have basically won the speedway lottery of life. What always makes me laugh are some of those so eager to criticise the track cant wait to jump in after a few races, hence the racing improves and silence. Some seem to think its some sort of magical place where fantasy speedway is produced every race, mind you a bad meeting here can normally kick a good one elsewhere into a cocked hat. From what I hear Swindon is shaping up well and the racing is improving there, which is good news. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bellevueace said: What always makes me laugh are some of those so eager to criticise the track cant wait to jump in after a few races, hence the racing improves and silence. Some seem to think its some sort of magical place where fantasy speedway is produced every race, mind you a bad meeting here can normally kick a good one elsewhere into a cocked hat. From what I hear Swindon is shaping up well and the racing is improving there, which is good news. My lad plays in a Lesgue One Academy and plays his home games on a Vanarama North Team's 4G pitch.. The pitch is used every day from around 10am to 10pm by various sporting teams from the local area, and this morning was home to a 'holiday club' for primary school boys and girls who were on the pitch before we arrived.. The pitch cost £400k and within five years has paid for itself and more... The non League team is doing 'well' and pays its players what it can afford to and not a penny more.. My point? The investment in the playing surface guaranteed not only the survival of the club but also means the football played on it is very much along the floor and not hoof and hope, thus the fans appreciate it and crowds stay decent even though the team is lower mid table every year with pretty much zero expectation of promotion. The players they attract know the rate for the job well in advance and therefore the level is pretty much bang average for the bang average money they pay out.. The NSS (and some others) show that, even with modern machinery, a fit for purpose 'playing surface' can still deliver great entertainment, particularly when combined with riders of relatively the same ability level each race.. I am sure many tracks even with the confines of a greyhound track could improve their track shape with wider entrances and exits to bends and a more overall circular design if they wished.. No point just keeping paying out hundreds and thousands to riders, who may or may not be at your club next week/month/season to positively effect the clubs long term development, and to be frank, don't attract any extra punters through the turnstiles by their personal attendance... Better I would suggest to invest in the tracks future by spending thousands on providing a great shape which delivers great racing.. Edited July 31, 2019 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpenRake Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, mikebv said: My lad plays in a Lesgue One Academy and plays his home game on a Vanarama North Team's 4G pitch.. The pitch is used every day from around 10am to 10pm by various sporting teams from the local area, and this morning was home to a 'holiday club' for primary school boys and girls who were on the pitch before we arrived.. The pitch cost £400k and within five years has paid for itself and more... The non League team is doing 'well' and pays its players what it can afford to and not a penny more.. My point? The investment in the playing surface guaranteed not only the survival of the club but also means the football played on it is very much along the floor and not hoof and hope, thus the fans appreciate it and crowds stay decent even though the team is lower mid table every year with pretty much zero expectation of promotion. The players they attract know the rate for the job well in advance and therefore the level is pretty much bang average for the bang average money they pay out.. The NSS (and some others) show that, even with modern machinery, a fit for purpose 'playing surface' can still deliver great entertainment, particularly when combined with riders of relatively the same ability level each race.. I am sure many tracks even with the confines of a greyhound track could improve their track shape with wider entrances and exits to bends and a more overall circular design if they wished.. No point paying out hundreds and thousands to riders, who may or may not be at your club next week/month/season to positively effect the clubs long term development, and to be frank, don't attract any extra punters through the turnstiles by their personal attendance... Better I would suggest to invest in the tracks future by spending thousands on providing a great shape which delivers great racing.. Spot on. The trouble is in speedway you get criticised for investing money! The Facennas at Glasgow recognised that the existing stadium and track wouldn't attract any more than the 400 diehards , if you were lucky, that were attending when they took over. They invested heavily in the stadium and every year have improved the track - safety fence, shape - and general facilities, the latest being a big screen. Yet they get criticised for being 'rich'. Anyone that wants to see if it has worked just look at the videos for Heat 15 from the last 2 meetings on their web site or facebook page. Brilliant racing and an enthusiastic crowd going mental. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, bellevueace said: What always makes me laugh are some of those so eager to criticise the track cant wait to jump in after a few races, hence the racing improves and silence. Some seem to think its some sort of magical place where fantasy speedway is produced every race, mind you a bad meeting here can normally kick a good one elsewhere into a cocked hat. From what I hear Swindon is shaping up well and the racing is improving there, which is good news. Along way to go bellevueace with Swindon and the track, but it is very encouraging indeed, i have really enjoyed the racing this year thus far.I was very worried about changing the track losing its tradition but it has been the best thing that has ever happened different lines appearing and the racing close.Look Belle Vue is in a different league and for me it is easily in the top three racetracks in the world MORT should never be forgotten on what he achieved with designing this racetrack.Hyde rd was my favourite racetrack ever, but maybe the NSS has to rival that now just a shame we can't present a GP there a crying shame. Edited July 31, 2019 by Sidney the robin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blocktread Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 The NSS would be ideal to run the GP Challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, mikebv said: My lad plays in a Lesgue One Academy and plays his home games on a Vanarama North Team's 4G pitch.. The pitch is used every day from around 10am to 10pm by various sporting teams from the local area, and this morning was home to a 'holiday club' for primary school boys and girls who were on the pitch before we arrived.. The pitch cost £400k and within five years has paid for itself and more... The non League team is doing 'well' and pays its players what it can afford to and not a penny more.. My point? The investment in the playing surface guaranteed not only the survival of the club but also means the football played on it is very much along the floor and not hoof and hope, thus the fans appreciate it and crowds stay decent even though the team is lower mid table every year with pretty much zero expectation of promotion. The players they attract know the rate for the job well in advance and therefore the level is pretty much bang average for the bang average money they pay out.. The NSS (and some others) show that, even with modern machinery, a fit for purpose 'playing surface' can still deliver great entertainment, particularly when combined with riders of relatively the same ability level each race.. I am sure many tracks even with the confines of a greyhound track could improve their track shape with wider entrances and exits to bends and a more overall circular design if they wished.. No point just keeping paying out hundreds and thousands to riders, who may or may not be at your club next week/month/season to positively effect the clubs long term development, and to be frank, don't attract any extra punters through the turnstiles by their personal attendance... Better I would suggest to invest in the tracks future by spending thousands on providing a great shape which delivers great racing.. Whilst I agree hole heartedly with your idea it's simply not feesable for 90% of the current tracks for different reasons. The main hurdle is who, outside of Glasgow, has that sort of money to change their track shape? Whilst Leicester have had three attempts to do it so far it's still not the greatest of shapes for racing, Ipswich have tried and it has improved but still not great. Most clubs are losing money so major spending , even investing, isn't going to happen under present ownerships. Take the worst shape track in the country, Newcastle. They can't alter it because of restrictions from the stadium owners and drainage issues so nothing can be done . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwright71 Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 17 hours ago, Loose Diamond said: Well years ago it seemed like it was viable. And there were no tracks purposely built for speedway.( Or not too many anyway) So what has changed then?? The bikes have changed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Loose Diamond Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, iwright71 said: The bikes have changed ! Yes. They have. Trying to make an old design engine rev up to about 14000 rpm. (Possibly not that high. I'm sure one of the many experts will correct me on that one) And bang!! Wrecked been warmed-up on the stand! More riders expense. How many engines used to blow up years ago or chains snap or get thrown off during a race years ago? Quite a few riders in the 70's & 80's never seemed to have the bike problems that we see now. All this adds to riders expense, then want more pay tracks cannot afford this and so on.with the crowds they get. It's a vicious circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 6 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said: You appear not to understand the financial implications of ' dropping the CL'. The Championship pays him around 60% of his current wages based on number of fixtures and scores, without that he simply cannot afford to do the PL as its far too few fixtures and as his average at Peterbrough shows, no harder than the championship. Sweden is such a small league and with its fixtures and team selection rules, he's not going to get in that league and Danish league is not a step up unless he is in their Elite which also isn't going to happen for the same reasons. His Polish team haven't paid his wages for last season so he's way out of pocket there and you want him to drop 60% of his earnings? Would you? I understand it perfectly. However this a finance versus ambition issue. We all know the majority of riders racing in the UK leagues need both leagues to make it pay, hence why one big league will force even more riders out of the sport. The comment I originally replied to was about Wright being a ‘bang average rider’ and his performance in the British Final and this season has suggested there may be a much better rider in there. Do you think Woffy and Lambert dropped the CL didn’t take a huge gamble in doing so? Of course they did. Why did they?? Because they have ambition on a bigger scale. There are plenty of British riders that have ridden abroad and been dropped and forced back to the comfort of the CL - Cook, Harris, Nicholls to name a few in recent seasons. Someone like Bewley is being nurtured by his Polish club and you can be sure he will drop the CL next season, if not 2021. Why? Because he has ambition. Not every rider can take the risk and or lack that ambition. Ive no idea if Wright is looking to explore contracts abroad, he should because he has shown this year he has more to give. However to just put it down to just financial is only one side of the bigger picture. Nothing wrong with doubling up if it pays the bills and fair play to them for that. And looking at Monday’s field most do however most of the riders who haven’t achieved higher in the top league (Bomber, Nicholls, Cook, King, Schlein for example) can really be described as bang average. And let’s be clear there is nothing wrong with that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, stevebrum said: I understand it perfectly. However this a finance versus ambition issue. We all know the majority of riders racing in the UK leagues need both leagues to make it pay, hence why one big league will force even more riders out of the sport. The comment I originally replied to was about Wright being a ‘bang average rider’ and his performance in the British Final and this season has suggested there may be a much better rider in there. Do you think Woffy and Lambert dropped the CL didn’t take a huge gamble in doing so? Of course they did. Why did they?? Because they have ambition on a bigger scale. There are plenty of British riders that have ridden abroad and been dropped and forced back to the comfort of the CL - Cook, Harris, Nicholls to name a few in recent seasons. Someone like Bewley is being nurtured by his Polish club and you can be sure he will drop the CL next season, if not 2021. Why? Because he has ambition. Not every rider can take the risk and or lack that ambition. Ive no idea if Wright is looking to explore contracts abroad, he should because he has shown this year he has more to give. However to just put it down to just financial is only one side of the bigger picture. Nothing wrong with doubling up if it pays the bills and fair play to them for that. And looking at Monday’s field most do however most of the riders who haven’t achieved higher in the top league (Bomber, Nicholls, Cook, King, Schlein for example) can really be described as bang average. And let’s be clear there is nothing wrong with that either. There's only you describing Wright as ' bang average' which surprises me as he's improved every season , been a heat leader in the Premiership for the last 2 seasons and a no.1 in the championship also, nothing average about that. Bewley doesn't ride in the CL now but has a Polish club that pays him mega bucks when it's owed, not like Opole who won't pay Wright the thousands they owe him. ( Wright is not the only victim in Poland) I have known him for four seasons and the lad does not lack ambition but , as yet, he has not attracted the level of sponsors the likes of Lambert and Woffy have secured when they were on the ' up'. If your going to say drop the CL why hasn't Cook? Does he lack ambition? hes been in the GP and can still qualify for next year, he's tried abroad ( but it hasn't worked ) but he still takes the easy money in the CL. to describe Wright as ' bang average ' is frankly insulting , check your last 3 speedway yearbooks and you will see he has been a high performer for quite a while he just doesn't blow his own trumpet enough and only hit the headlines when Gary May used him as a scapegoat for under performing Somerset and oh how he regrets that one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: There's only you describing Wright as ' bang average' which surprises me as he's improved every season , been a heat leader in the Premiership for the last 2 seasons and a no.1 in the championship also, nothing average about that. Bewley doesn't ride in the CL now but has a Polish club that pays him mega bucks when it's owed, not like Opole who won't pay Wright the thousands they owe him. ( Wright is not the only victim in Poland) I have known him for four seasons and the lad does not lack ambition but , as yet, he has not attracted the level of sponsors the likes of Lambert and Woffy have secured when they were on the ' up'. If your going to say drop the CL why hasn't Cook? Does he lack ambition? hes been in the GP and can still qualify for next year, he's tried abroad ( but it hasn't worked ) but he still takes the easy money in the CL. to describe Wright as ' bang average ' is frankly insulting , check your last 3 speedway yearbooks and you will see he has been a high performer for quite a while he just doesn't blow his own trumpet enough and only hit the headlines when Gary May used him as a scapegoat for under performing Somerset and oh how he regrets that one. You have clearly failed to read my post properly. My initial response on this thread was because someone mentioned that Wright was ‘bang average’ and it initiated a conversation on it to which I replied with my initial response suggesting prior to the British Final he may well have found himself in that bracket. I didn’t initiate the original comment so you must have become confused. Ive already said Wright has had a much improved season and it looks like he has more to give. Did you choose to ignore that part?? Did I say it was easy to break into European leagues?? Good on him for having ambition and making after Monday’s meeting some will be knocking on his door with offers. I really hope so for the lad as that’s good for GB to have riders able to perform and ride on the European tracks. I take it you won’t take that as a slight at him tho?? Cook we all know flopped big time in Poland and now probably won’t get another chance which is a huge shame for him because whilst he seems to have ideas way above his ability he isn’t afraid to try and that ambition alone gets my support. Cook only takes the money of the CL because he has no choice, but you can bet your last pound that if Europe came calling he would be off like a shot ditching the lower tier because like I say what he doesn’t lack is ambition. We know Poland are fickle with riders and there are litters of riders with a money story to tell. wright I have to applaud for being a slow improver and maybe it’s unfair to lump him in a category of double up only riders. My point however was in response to someone else making that comment so please don’t say it’s only one person saying so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 12:11 AM, Dornier fixer said: He didn`t do too bad to say you said and I quote ` hes a bang average rider.` just shows how much you know about non Belle Vue riders. This was the original post I replied to that acef had originally made. 34 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: There's only you describing Wright as ' bang average' Read the above quoted comment. So you are wrong just to be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, stevebrum said: You have clearly failed to read my post properly. My initial response on this thread was because someone mentioned that Wright was ‘bang average’ and it initiated a conversation on it to which I replied with my initial response suggesting prior to the British Final he may well have found himself in that bracket. I didn’t initiate the original comment so you must have become confused. Ive already said Wright has had a much improved season and it looks like he has more to give. Did you choose to ignore that part?? Did I say it was easy to break into European leagues?? Good on him for having ambition and making after Monday’s meeting some will be knocking on his door with offers. I really hope so for the lad as that’s good for GB to have riders able to perform and ride on the European tracks. I take it you won’t take that as a slight at him tho?? Cook we all know flopped big time in Poland and now probably won’t get another chance which is a huge shame for him because whilst he seems to have ideas way above his ability he isn’t afraid to try and that ambition alone gets my support. Cook only takes the money of the CL because he has no choice, but you can bet your last pound that if Europe came calling he would be off like a shot ditching the lower tier because like I say what he doesn’t lack is ambition. We know Poland are fickle with riders and there are litters of riders with a money story to tell. wright I have to applaud for being a slow improver and maybe it’s unfair to lump him in a category of double up only riders. My point however was in response to someone else making that comment so please don’t say it’s only one person saying so. My apologies for mis-quoting you. There was obviously another mis- guided ,ill informed individual making the phrase up. Wright has been over looked by many including a certain team GB manager who put a lower averaged rider from Wrights former club in the squad ahead of him but that's another story. Im sure Wright would drop what ever league stood in his way should the offer of a lucrative contract elsewhere come up that would improve him as a rider, how ever finance will always come first with any rider. If there's no difference in quality between the CL and the PL ( which I believe there isn't) but he earns more from the CL , I think that would sway anyone's decision but as we are rumoured to be heading to one league next year than all of this is discussion will be made redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: My apologies for mis-quoting you. There was obviously another mis- guided ,ill informed individual making the phrase up. Wright has been over looked by many including a certain team GB manager who put a lower averaged rider from Wrights former club in the squad ahead of him but that's another story. Im sure Wright would drop what ever league stood in his way should the offer of a lucrative contract elsewhere come up that would improve him as a rider, how ever finance will always come first with any rider. If there's no difference in quality between the CL and the PL ( which I believe there isn't) but he earns more from the CL , I think that would sway anyone's decision but as we are rumoured to be heading to one league next year than all of this is discussion will be made redundant. No worries, just wanted to make sure that you were aware I wasn’t particularly calling Wright ‘bang average’ but that he could quite easily be lumped in with other riders who appear happy with just doubling up. You obviously know Charles so it’s really refreshing to hear that he has that ambition. I couldn’t be any happier to hear that. There is still a difference between both leagues despite that gap being the smallest of all time because there has rarely been a big scalp when clubs from both leagues are pitched together in friendlies and the relegation matches. Even in the last couple of seasons. I personally disagree that both leagues should be made closer as we should be striving for a stronger top flight but that seems more and more unlikely these days. Sweden are struggling for new riders but they wouldn’t make their leagues closer and Poland certainly wouldn’t! For me that’s the biggest turn off for the sport and will alienate more who want to see the best riders by weakening and the possibility then of going into one big league (it won’t happen with all current teams and structure because there aren’t enough riders for each team) will see more riders alienated from the UK and more British riders retiring because they can’t make one league pay. Obviously we all want wants best for our UK league(s) tho whether those in power have the ability to deliver a suitable product is a big ask. I’d imagine it will be another plaster and weakening in the close season. Edited July 31, 2019 by stevebrum Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 9:30 AM, Pinny said: Cook is a poor mans Carl Stonehewer . Top second tier rider but nothing more , Stoney mixed it in the GPs for a few years but apart from that their a similar type. Nothing wrong with that of course but he is never going to be better than he is . not in the uk he is a top tier rider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Just now, ray c said: not in the uk he is a top tier rider So was Stoney and he held down a 6 plus average in the top tier when it was super strong and rare for a GP rider NOT to be riding in it . Think Gollob and Holta were the only two not to for a while ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.