TV new deal?

[Fortythirtyeight]

13 minutes ago, Sotonian said:

They removed the classic speedway roar which was an integral part of the sport for me. I gave it until the end of that season then never returned for more.

So you haven't been to a meeting in over 40 years?

wow!  Says a lot about this forum.

[Sotonian]

9 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

So you haven't been to a meeting in over 40 years?

wow!  Says a lot about this forum.

No, 2011, when the change in noise was markedly noticeable.

[Dave Jones]

11 minutes ago, Sotonian said:

No, 2011, when the change in noise was markedly noticeable.

I agree with that.  IMO it was also a point where the quality of racing deteriorated as riders were complaining that" the engines didn't react to the throttle as they had prior to the new silencers being introduced ,and close racing was more difficult due to the way that the power came in".

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Silencers were used in the late 70's early 80's when speedway was at its peak so your statement ( opinion ) does not hold water.

Rules concerning silencers have changed every three years on average since they were introduced, the biggest change was in 2011 , which lead to some overheating issues but didn't alter the standard of racing.

...and caused all sorts of problems when they were introduced with riders refusing to ride on occasions. Recall the Spring Classic involving Ole Olsen being particularly contentious.

Edited July 28, 2019 by steve roberts

[iwright71]

23 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

I agree with that.  IMO it was also a point where the quality of racing deteriorated as riders were complaining that" the engines didn't react to the throttle as they had prior to the new silencers being introduced ,and close racing was more difficult due to the way that the power came in".

Don't go down that line. You will get Fortythirtyeight on your case, he has already told me I'm wrong when I dared to say quality of racing had detreated since the silencer change in 2011. I have eyes , can only call it how I see it. 

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

A very debatable heat result in the end. I was there in Pocking for this meeting and I remember this race well.

In the re-run after Han's exclusion Sam knew his bike was in trouble on the startline and he attempted to leave the track but was forced to go back on by the stewards, as the 3 riders entered the 1st bend ermolenko's bike stopped causing Hamill to fall . The race should have been run with two riders only but Sam was allowed back in on another machine and we all know the result. A very controversial decision given the meeting referee's well known intense dislike of Hans Nielsen.

...and Sam admitted that he was lucky in his book "Breaking the Limits".

[Dave Jones]

3 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

Don't go down that line. You will get Fortythirtyeight on your case, he has already told me I'm wrong when I dared to say quality of racing had detreated since the silencer change in 2011. I have eyes , can only call it how I see it. 

I don't worry about that.  I've encountered plenty of posters like him in the time I've been on the forum. Most don't hang around too long usually.

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

Frank Ebdon.... No idea why, but it was a topic of discussion for quite a while as I recall

edit

Upon thinking about this a little more, I'm sure that I heard it first at a "talk in"  in Coventry where Hans was guest speaker.

He mentioned then that He and Ebdon had issues but didn't expand on that.

 

Hans openly discussed his dislike of Ebdon in his book "Main Dane".

Edited July 28, 2019 by steve roberts

[Dave Jones]

1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Hans openly discusses his dislike of Ebdon in his book "Main Dane".

I had it in my mind that it was a well known issue, but it was a long time ago and my memory isn't what it once was .

Thanks for the info.

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

I agree with that.  IMO it was also a point where the quality of racing deteriorated as riders were complaining that" the engines didn't react to the throttle as they had prior to the new silencers being introduced ,and close racing was more difficult due to the way that the power came in".

How is that even possible when all the bikes would be acting the same?

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, iwright71 said:

Don't go down that line. You will get Fortythirtyeight on your case, he has already told me I'm wrong when I dared to say quality of racing had detreated since the silencer change in 2011. I have eyes , can only call it how I see it. 

How can this be true when crowds at some tracks have increased recently? Fans at Belle Vue, Scunthorpe, Redcar, Glasgow have all quoted repeatedly that they are seeing better racing now but you say the opposite.

Must just be your eyes.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Fortythirtyeight
Spelling

[Dave Jones]

10 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

How is that even possible when all the bikes would be acting the same?

Is that a serious question?  I don't get the impression you are that naive .

[waytogo28]

7 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

How can this be true when crowds at some tracks have increased recently? Fans at Belle Vue, Scunthorpe, Redcar, Glasgow have all quoted repeatedly that they are seeing better racing now but you say the opposite.

Must just be your eyes.

Eyes are normally a pretty good method of informal assessment but in terms of how exciting and thrilling racing is at the above tracks, we should use the measure of turnstile clicks ( paid ones ). None of them have reported new fans or disillusioned returning fans flocking to matches.

[Wee Eck]

Returning to the actual topic - anyone hearing rumours about a tv deal for next year?

[BWitcher]

13 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

A very debatable heat result in the end. I was there in Pocking for this meeting and I remember this race well.

In the re-run after Han's exclusion Sam knew his bike was in trouble on the startline and he attempted to leave the track but was forced to go back on by the stewards, as the 3 riders entered the 1st bend ermolenko's bike stopped causing Hamill to fall . The race should have been run with two riders only but Sam was allowed back in on another machine and we all know the result. A very controversial decision given the meeting referee's well known intense dislike of Hans Nielsen.

Agreed, but there was no doubts over the original exclusion.

You often needed a touch of luck in the old one off World Finals. Nobody can argue Ermolenko wasn't the best rider in the world that year.

[Fortythirtyeight]

4 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

Eyes are normally a pretty good method of informal assessment but in terms of how exciting and thrilling racing is at the above tracks, we should use the measure of turnstile clicks ( paid ones ). None of them have reported new fans or disillusioned returning fans flocking to matches.

Then you haven't kept up with the threads, Glasgow, Belle Vue ,Redcar have all reported ' new fans' just not in the great numbers they and all of us hoped for.

[Fortythirtyeight]

11 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

Is that a serious question?  I don't get the impression you are that naive .

You said that the introduction of silencers had made the standard of racing deteriorate. If all bikes are effected the same way, which they were, then all bikes will perform similarly therefore the racing will still be as close , or not, as it was before .

They might be slightly slower or even less noisey but this would not effect the STANDARD of racing.

[Dave Jones]

2 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

You said that the introduction of silencers had made the standard of racing deteriorate. If all bikes are effected the same way, which they were, then all bikes will perform similarly therefore the racing will still be as close , or not, as it was before .

They might be slightly slower or even less noisey but this would not effect the STANDARD of racing.

I think you will find that the major criticism of this particular silencer was that the power from the engine didn't come in progressively. It caused the riders difficulties as often they would pick up drive unexpectedly, usually in the turns, and the bikes would lift dangerously. As a result riders were reluctant to get too close in case something untoward happened which indirectly caused a deterioration in the quality of the racing.  IMO

 

[Fortythirtyeight]

19 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

I think you will find that the major criticism of this particular silencer was that the power from the engine didn't come in progressively. It caused the riders difficulties as often they would pick up drive unexpectedly, usually in the turns, and the bikes would lift dangerously. As a result riders were reluctant to get too close in case something untoward happened which indirectly caused a deterioration in the quality of the racing.  IMO

 

That is your opinion, not backed up by facts though. Having spoken to riders at length at the time about the 2011 silencers they never stated they were' reluctant too get close to someone' they complained the bikes ' died ' in deep dirt and some brands caused overheating issue. Having used said silencers myself and having spoken with Jason Lyons several times on the subject as he particularly suffered early season with these silencers he never ever said it had any affect on getting near other riders so made no difference to the quality of the racing.

Many of those era silencers are still being used at amateur meetings up and down the country as they were available very cheaply when the rule was changed yet gain.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Fortythirtyeight
Spelling

[Dave Jones]

2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Agreed, but there was no doubts over the original exclusion.

You often needed a touch of luck in the old one off World Finals. Nobody can argue Ermolenko wasn't the best rider in the world that year.

i suppose it depends where you consider "a touch of luck" finishes and a huge chunk of luck begins really.

 i will say that such was my intense  frustration with the result, & for the one and only time in my life I found myself at the back of the room during the riders press conference heckling the winner during his speech .