TV new deal?

[Spl77]

2 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

I

Just can't see the straight-through exhaust being acceptable, from a noise perspective in many stadiums. As for capacity then any single cylinder from 250cc up would allow for racing that is fast enough and safe enough for the UK tracks. For UK speedway to survive it has to break away from what is happening on better tracks in Europe. Yes, call it Formula 2 speedway. What matters is the quality and excitement of on-track racing.

But even on the better tracks most of the time it enter corner on the inside and then drift to mid to outside thus making outside passing a hazard. These things are out of control on the big European tracks to. 

The bikes need changing easily done turn around tomorrow and state that from season 2021 the bike is going to be xyz. That gives a season and a half's notice to the riders that things will change. Time to plan. 

[Bagpuss]

I think the first lay downs were used by Hans Nielsen and Mark Loram in the World Semi Final at Bradford in 1994, seem to remember it not being until 1996 that they were permitted in the UK though. 

[Booey boy]

13 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think the argument between upright and laydown engines is the beginning of the sports demise as such. It's purely mythical and coincidental. 

It's more the materials / improved technology used that has increased speeds and reliability of the first laydown. As it was then far superior to the old upright in tech / material, other engine manufacturers acted like sheep and copied. Human nature does this in all walks of life. 

Look at houses, cars, mobile phones etc etc. Someone comes up with an idea, everyone else copies. 

If a modern engine supplier produces an upright today, it would 100% perform just as well as a laydown so the current problem actually doesn't go away. 

First and foremost, in my opinion, the FIM should bring the engine capacity down from 500cc to 450cc and allow straight through / silencer exhaust system. 

Laydown is a lot easier to ride than an upright centre of gravity lower 

[steve roberts]

2 minutes ago, Booey boy said:

Laydown is a lot easier to ride than an upright centre of gravity lower 

Apparently Kelly Moran had a problem riding one during a practice session (?)

[iwright71]

16 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think the argument between upright and laydown engines is the beginning of the sports demise as such. It's purely mythical and coincidental. 

It's more the materials / improved technology used that has increased speeds and reliability of the first laydown. As it was then far superior to the old upright in tech / material, other engine manufacturers acted like sheep and copied. Human nature does this in all walks of life. 

Look at houses, cars, mobile phones etc etc. Someone comes up with an idea, everyone else copies. 

If a modern engine supplier produces an upright today, it would 100% perform just as well as a laydown so the current problem actually doesn't go away. 

First and foremost, in my opinion, the FIM should bring the engine capacity down from 500cc to 450cc and allow straight through / silencer exhaust system. 

The introduction of the new silencers  (2011) has led to a dramatic downturn in the sport in terms of the motorsport experience ,and the reduced quality of racing. 

 

[Fortythirtyeight]

3 hours ago, Booey boy said:

Laydown is a lot easier to ride than an upright centre of gravity lower 

Absolute rubbish. 

Upright's are ridden with controllable power , laydown's have to be revved to maximum limit to perform , they basically have an on off switch.

[Fortythirtyeight]

13 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

The introduction of the new silencers  (2011) has led to a dramatic downturn in the sport in terms of the motorsport experience ,and the reduced quality of racing. 

 

Wrong. The only thing affected by the introduction of silencers is the noise ( obviously ) and engine tuning. Made no difference whatsoever to the standards of racing.

[iwright71]

1 minute ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Wrong. The only thing affected by the introduction of silencers is the noise ( obviously ) and engine tuning. Made no difference whatsoever to the standards of racing.

Can only speak from my own experience. I would tell anyone pre 2011 that I watched the best speedway in the country. Now its poor, average on occasions and for this reason I've stopped attending after hardly missing a week in the last 30 years, I'm not the only one, plenty of others have voted with their feet, they have eyes. Do you watch speedway at every track in the country to validate your argument ? . Honestly when was the last time we saw a brilliant match on the TV that wasn't from Manchester ?  Haven't seen anything out of this world from the GP's yet and don't mention the 2 day Final of the SON.  

[BWitcher]

4 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

I think the first lay downs were used by Hans Nielsen and Mark Loram in the World Semi Final at Bradford in 1994, seem to remember it not being until 1996 that they were permitted in the UK though. 

Before that Baggy, Nielsen was riding one in the 93 World Final.

Still Nielsen fans who claim there wasn't 'enough contact' to cause a fall!
 

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by BWitcher

[Wee Eck]

11 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

Can only speak from my own experience. I would tell anyone pre 2011 that I watched the best speedway in the country. Now its poor, average on occasions and for this reason I've stopped attending after hardly missing a week in the last 30 years, I'm not the only one, plenty of others have voted with their feet, they have eyes. Do you watch speedway at every track in the country to validate your argument ? . Honestly when was the last time we saw a brilliant match on the TV that wasn't from Manchester ?  Haven't seen anything out of this world from the GP's yet and don't mention the 2 day Final of the SON.  

The 2011 silencers were withdrawn after riders complained that the additional back pressure they caused led to engine over heating and blow ups. 

The current silencers are virtually the same as the pre-2011 ones, so have nothing to do with any perceived reduced quality of racing. 

[HenryW]

25 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Before that Baggy, Nielsen was riding one in the 93 World Final.

I think Gerd Riss was the first to use one in an Individual World Final.

He definitely used one in Gothenburg in 1991. I can't remember one being used in a Final before that.

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, iwright71 said:

Can only speak from my own experience. I would tell anyone pre 2011 that I watched the best speedway in the country. Now its poor, average on occasions and for this reason I've stopped attending after hardly missing a week in the last 30 years, I'm not the only one, plenty of others have voted with their feet, they have eyes. Do you watch speedway at every track in the country to validate your argument ? . Honestly when was the last time we saw a brilliant match on the TV that wasn't from Manchester ?  Haven't seen anything out of this world from the GP's yet and don't mention the 2 day Final of the SON.  

Yes, I have followed speedway long enough to have seen both era's , ( from 1972) I have visited tracks at both ends of the country and attend at least two tracks a week, usually three and they are different ones each week. Compare this to your non attendance.

Spoke to Martin ( Mad Dig) Dixon recently who rode for over 25 years and he said the standard of racing these days is far superior to when he started in the late 70's.

Dont judge every track by your local track experience, there's a few out there producing great racing and entertainment EVERY week.

Tv matches are primarily Premiership which is inferior racing to most championship and even some National League matches. Even Sky used to say they saw more competitive meetings when covering championship meetings.

 

[orion]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 12:15 PM, moxey63 said:

 

Meanwhile, fans are expected to tune in to the GPs and see many of the riders (or their type) who put two fingers up at Britain and merely used it like a Tom Cat when the female was in season. Fans are expected to turn up trackside and support riders in their team who aren't even their riders. It's like visiting someone in hospital you don't know and wishing them to get better. It's not someone you know and love. In fact, you ask yourself why bother turning up at the bedside every week to wish someone you don't know get better.   

   

 

 

 

No one expects anything .. People just like any job take the best money ( unless they say they have a passion for uk speedway ) Not sure what it matter what clubs  these riders ride for  as the GP'S are a solo event and people can still cheer say for a uk rider or enjoy the top class racing .

Like any decent speedway fan we all know every rider not that matters of course unless its in your world .

[iwright71]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 4:58 PM, Wee Eck said:

The 2011 silencers were withdrawn after riders complained that the additional back pressure they caused led to engine over heating and blow ups. 

The current silencers are virtually the same as the pre-2011 ones, so have nothing to do with any perceived reduced quality of racing. 

Must be something else then. Amazing quality of speedway went rapidly downhill from the day F.I.M ordered a regulation change with silencers and the quality has not returned to this day. Probably just coincidence .

[iwright71]

23 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Yes, I have followed speedway long enough to have seen both era's , ( from 1972) I have visited tracks at both ends of the country and attend at least two tracks a week, usually three and they are different ones each week. Compare this to your non attendance.

Spoke to Martin ( Mad Dig) Dixon recently who rode for over 25 years and he said the standard of racing these days is far superior to when he started in the late 70's.

Dont judge every track by your local track experience, there's a few out there producing great racing and entertainment EVERY week.

Tv matches are primarily Premiership which is inferior racing to most championship and even some National League matches. Even Sky used to say they saw more competitive meetings when covering championship meetings.

 

Think the clue is in your last post " there's a few tracks out there producing great racing and entertainment EVERY week " I think we all know where they are but a few " good " tracks around the country is not enough to sustain a sport as the empty spaces on the terraces shows. On this forum all fans do is moan about the poor quality of racing, Kings Lynn, Peterborough, Sheffield, Leicester, Berwick etc etc

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, iwright71 said:

Must be something else then. Amazing quality of speedway went rapidly downhill from the day F.I.M ordered a regulation change with silencers and the quality has not returned to this day. Probably just coincidence .

Silencers were used in the late 70's early 80's when speedway was at its peak so your statement ( opinion ) does not hold water.

Rules concerning silencers have changed every three years on average since they were introduced, the biggest change was in 2011 , which lead to some overheating issues but didn't alter the standard of racing.

[Dave Jones]

On 7/27/2019 at 4:45 PM, BWitcher said:

Before that Baggy, Nielsen was riding one in the 93 World Final.

Still Nielsen fans who claim there wasn't 'enough contact' to cause a fall!
 

 

A very debatable heat result in the end. I was there in Pocking for this meeting and I remember this race well.

In the re-run after Han's exclusion Sam knew his bike was in trouble on the startline and he attempted to leave the track but was forced to go back on by the stewards, as the 3 riders entered the 1st bend ermolenko's bike stopped causing Hamill to fall . The race should have been run with two riders only but Sam was allowed back in on another machine and we all know the result. A very controversial decision given the meeting referee's well known intense dislike of Hans Nielsen.

[HenryW]

8 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

A very controversial decision given the meeting referee's well known intense dislike of Hans Nielsen.

I don't think I've heard this mentioned before. Who was the referee that day and why did he dislike Hans Nielsen?

[Sotonian]

1 hour ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Silencers were used in the late 70's early 80's when speedway was at its peak so your statement ( opinion ) does not hold water.

Rules concerning silencers have changed every three years on average since they were introduced, the biggest change was in 2011 , which lead to some overheating issues but didn't alter the standard of racing.

They removed the classic speedway roar which was an integral part of the sport for me. I gave it until the end of that season then never returned for more.

[Dave Jones]

8 minutes ago, HenryW said:

I don't think I've heard this mentioned before. Who was the referee that day and why did he dislike Hans Nielsen?

Frank Ebdon.... No idea why, but it was a topic of discussion for quite a while as I recall

edit

Upon thinking about this a little more, I'm sure that I heard it first at a "talk in"  in Coventry where Hans was guest speaker.

He mentioned then that He and Ebdon had issues but didn't expand on that.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Dave Jones
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