chunky Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 49 minutes ago, Midland Red said: That’s misleading at the very least. I reckon / My opinion is that Lee was a better rider than Woffinden, but I concede that Woffinden has been far more successful. Not sure where the “know” comes from. As much as I hate to, sometimes we have to generalise. As I have said before, Lee could - and SHOULD - have done more with his career, in which case he could be considered the best-ever Brit - even now. It's scary to think how young he still was when his career at the very top level finished. Even worse, he could have already had a couple more World Titles by that time. Fact is, he didn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: SURPRISED Peter Collins hasn't figured more prominently in this conversation... supreme natural talent, fabulous to watch, passed other top riders for fun. Like many others, the GP system would have suited him. How he would have loved the Wroclaw track of two weeks ago. We've actually covered comparisons with PC in more depth on other threads; this one just seemed to devolve into Lee vs Woffinden... Funny thing, when we look back to the '70's and early '80's, we've discussed previously how there were just a small handful of riders (PC, Mauger, Olsen etc) way ahead of the rest. With a GP system, that would just have increased the gulf between the elite and the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, falcace said: What more do you want from a World Champion? Dangerous question to ask on the BSF!!! I think some of the people here have a list of answers on the fridge... Edited August 13, 2019 by chunky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, chunky said: It is crazy. Most of us who reckon Tai is better are happy to concede that Lee was more talented. Those who reckon Lee was better will concede nothing, because they "know". I stated that Lee was perhaps the most talented rider in speedway history, yet I was accused of considering him in "also-ran"! See the difference in the two camps? It's true that people can't (or won't) differentiate between BEST and FAVOURITE, or simply want to rewrite the dictionary... Steve Absolutely spot on 100% 1 hour ago, DC2 said: You can compare them on bike handling skills too and ability to gate and to overtake and to ride different tracks. Achievements is not the only criterion for comparison. For me, Darcy Ward is the most naturally gifted rider I have seen but his achievements don’t amount to much. You can look at three criteria and i will give you 3 answers..... but if you are discussing best rider ....its Tai if we talking about British only Favourite to watch...........Mark Loram Most naturally talented...........Loram, Ward, K.Moran, Screen, Gollob, Lee, Collins , Carter Best Ever..........Rickardsson, Nielsen, Mauger, Woffinden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 57 minutes ago, chunky said: As much as I hate to, sometimes we have to generalise. As I have said before, Lee could - and SHOULD - have done more with his career, in which case he could be considered the best-ever Brit - even now. It's scary to think how young he still was when his career at the very top level finished. Even worse, he could have already had a couple more World Titles by that time. Fact is, he didn't... Can’t disagree with the fact that he should have achieved more than he did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 It's all very reminiscent of the debates about the Big Five in the old days. It was generally reckoned that the most gifted and most talented.rider was Ronnie Moore and the most spectacular to watch was Peter Craven, but for sheer determination and the most successful were Ove Fundin and Barry Briggs, both of whom would figure in most people's top riders of all times above Moore and Craven. It is all a matter of opinion and there are no right or wrong answers and depends on what it is that is regarded as the true mark of the "best". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, norbold said: It's all very reminiscent of the debates about the Big Five in the old days. It was generally reckoned that the most gifted and most talented.rider was Ronnie Moore and the most spectacular to watch was Peter Craven, but for sheer determination and the most successful were Ove Fundin and Barry Briggs, both of whom would figure in most people's top riders of all times above Moore and Craven. It is all a matter of opinion and there are no right or wrong answers and depends on what it is that is regarded as the true mark of the "best". Didn’t anyone rate the fifth man then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Anyway we are getting off topic. Rossiter was better than Lee or Woffinden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Call me dense (or too young-ish) but who was the fifth man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Anyway we are getting off topic. Rossiter was better than Lee or Woffinden. As a manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Terry said: Call me dense (or too young-ish) but who was the fifth man? Joseph Cotten. Oh sorry, he was the Third Man... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, Terry said: Call me dense (or too young-ish) but who was the fifth man? Björn Knutson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Gavan said: Absolutely spot on 100% You can look at three criteria and i will give you 3 answers..... but if you are discussing best rider ....its Tai if we talking about British only Favourite to watch...........Mark Loram Most naturally talented...........Loram, Ward, K.Moran, Screen, Gollob, Lee, Collins , Carter Best Ever..........Rickardsson, Nielsen, Mauger, Woffinden Woffinden before Fundin, Briggs and Hancock? I think not. Carter more naturally talented than Shawn Moran? Never in this world. Mark Loram favourite to watch? Absolutely spot on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, norbold said: Björn Knutson. Thanks. I was thinking Michanek! Still, correct nationality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, Terry said: Woffinden before Fundin, Briggs and Hancock? I think not. Carter more naturally talented than Shawn Moran? Never in this world. Mark Loram favourite to watch? Absolutely spot on! As highly as I rate Woffinden, I agree that he is not at the Rickardsson/Mauger/Nielsen level - yet. Needs another win or two... I would also put Gundersen and Olsen in that elite group. Michanek's peak was 10-15 years after the group mentioned. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 16 hours ago, Gavan said: Most naturally talented...........Loram, Ward, K.Moran, Screen, Gollob, Lee, Collins , Carter Best Ever..........Rickardsson, Nielsen, Mauger, Woffinden For me - Most naturally talented - Ward, Lee, Gollob, K. Moran, Carter BestEver - Fundin, Mauger, Rickardsson, Nielsen, Collins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 On 8/11/2019 at 8:02 PM, phillipsr said: Burrows and Josh Auty would of ruled world speedway of it was just based on pure talent... Lee, Woffinden, Craven also rans in comparison Ask the home Scunny fans if Auty has any talent or not.!!!! or maybe you believe you know better NOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 On 8/13/2019 at 8:45 PM, norbold said: It's all very reminiscent of the debates about the Big Five in the old days. It was generally reckoned that the most gifted and most talented.rider was Ronnie Moore and the most spectacular to watch was Peter Craven, but for sheer determination and the most successful were Ove Fundin and Barry Briggs, both of whom would figure in most people's top riders of all times above Moore and Craven. It is all a matter of opinion and there are no right or wrong answers and depends on what it is that is regarded as the true mark of the "best". Spot on Norbold , Midland Red has been saying this all along it is only someone's opinion no more no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Those with long memories will wonder where riders like Vic Duggan, Jack Parker, Eric Langton and a few more may fit in with a best ever rating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillipsr Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 16 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Ask the home Scunny fans if Auty has any talent or not.!!!! or maybe you believe you know better NOT. Being good at one track doesnt make you talented.. The sport is littered with pretty poor riders who were good at one track 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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