steve roberts Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said: To my knowledge, cutting prices has been tried. As I have indicated earlier, Belle Vue did it and it failed. Under John Anderson, Berwick tried it. They didn't continue, so presumably it didn't work there either. If its a 'successful business tactic' why is that no-one can be found to put the money up to guarantee any loss just in case cutting prices doesn't work ? After all, according to you - and others - you can't lose. Care to put your money up to prove you are right ? Thought not Belle Vue costs £18 to go in. Cutting the cost to £15 - which according to at least one poster isn't enough - would require an increase in gates of 20%.Cutting it to £12 - one figure mentioned - would require an increase of 50%. Is that realistic, especially in the short term ? Your comments are indicative of why some promoters regard the BSF as a haven for 'keyboard commandos' who have all the ideas but won't risk a penny themselves. In this case, they're right. You are right when you say that cutting quality and increasing price can be disastrous. Decreasing the price and increasing the quality can be equally so. I work within the tourim industry and all sorts of incentives have been adopted in an attempt to generate more income. Schemes such as allowing those aged 15 and under free entry (as long as with a paying adult) but, alas, it hasn't worked...infact the scheme is about to be dropped due to lost revenue. Where I work the admission fee is constantly being reviewed and, dare I say, increases are the result to help off-set the loses. Living in York there is so much competion as regards attractions and it's a constant juggle to try and encourage visitors who only have so much to spend. Family tickets, free entry for twelve months (which is more often than not a trade off...only those living relatively locally are able to utilise the scheme) as well as other initiatives but they are continually under constant review and invariably admission prices are raised as a result. Edited July 27, 2019 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 15 hours ago, gustix said: Why should Oxford have cash from bar takings? They were only tenants for speedway racing. The stadium would have employed their own bar staff and sold items that they had initially paid for. It was the same as I recall at Wimbledon. Usual business practice as I see it TBH. 15 hours ago, steve roberts said: When Cowley was promoted and owned by Northern Sports the bar and catering takings were all part of the deal (as well as the sponsorship from local brewery 'Halls') but all this was lost when the promotion operated under different landlords when Northern Sports went into receivership. 3 hours ago, steve roberts said: Surely no different than any other business venture whereby the whole operation is owned by a single company running and managing every aspect of its business as was the case with Northern Sports? Unfortunately it was their Garden Centre empire that collapsed which caused the eventual sale of Cowley Stadium...the speedway side of the business was ticking along quite nicely before the pay restraint caused issues. I now understand how the speedway had financial benefit from bar takings etc. I did to fully understand that at the time debated the complete operations at Cowley Stadium aka Oxford Speedway were administered by one company. All logical to me now. Thank you for the explanation Steve Roberts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) Reducing prices/Doing special offers, is a fundamental part of any business.. And is used to increase customer footfall or sales unit volume depending on what you are offering.. The key to its success being of course that it overall delivers more profit.. But. This can only be done though if it is part of a bigger long term customer service, increased product quality, value for money package.. That is where Speedway clubs who do 'specials' fail as there is simply no clear short, medium and long term objective to doing it... It is very much a 'for one night only' deal without using this 'one night' as they should.. ie as a (potentially) loss making/break even at best investment in a much more detailed and wider marketing strategy, where by that nights 'captured market' is engaged for all it is worth to try and gain those repeat visits so fundamental to success.. Putting out the same old, same old on these 'specials' nights, as so many do, will only reinforce why some ex fans in attendance left in the first place and mean no further visits down the line.. If you reduce your price then ensure you showcase your offer and WOW your customers with your overall service and operating model.. Otherwise you might as well not bother doing it.. Edited July 27, 2019 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 Spot on, if I no longer think £18 is vfm so I stop going am I really going to become a regular again Just because the price is reduced but the entertainment on offer is still rubbish. This doesn't apply to me, I'm a Heathen who did an eight hour round journey to watch the Wolves at Ipswich on Thursday but I'm sure it applies to some who stay away now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill94d Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 I have stopped going to Somerset this season for the following reasons. They put prices up, they stopped pensioners concessions, they dropped a league and they cleared nearly the whole team out (including a world champion) year after year. It generates no fan loyalty to the "team" because it isn't going to be the team next year. You never get the same team out week after week because of injuries and R/R is a joke. Some riders (like now) decide that "British speedway is too hard" and bale out. Tish! It will take a lot to get me and my friends back (sorry Debbie but you have got it wrong) and I still happily watch good racing on the TV which is better value than going to my home track. Shame but there it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Reducing prices/Doing special offers, is a fundamental part of any business.. And is used to increase customer footfall or sales unit volume depending on what you are offering.. The key to its success being of course that it overall delivers more profit.. But. This can only be done though if it is part of a bigger long term customer service, increased product quality, value for money package.. That is where Speedway clubs who do 'specials' fail as there is simply no clear short, medium and long term objective to doing it... It is very much a 'for one night only' deal without using this 'one night' as they should.. ie as a (potentially) loss making/break even at best investment in a much more detailed and wider marketing strategy, where by that nights 'captured market' is engaged for all it is worth to try and gain those repeat visits so fundamental to success.. Putting out the same old, same old on these 'specials' nights, as so many do, will only reinforce why some ex fans in attendance left in the first place and mean no further visits down the line.. If you reduce your price then ensure you showcase your offer and WOW your customers with your overall service and operating model.. Otherwise you might as well not bother doing it.. I would agree in principle however in my line of work (tourism) by allowing children in free (whether five or fifteen years of age) doesn't necessarily increase the number of paying adults (although that is/was the incentive behind the scheme) and one of the attractions in York has had to abandon it's 'free' children option as they have been experiencing serious losses financially. Of course making the attraction (whatever the product) desirable is the essence of achieving financial reward and thereby lies the problem in many instances. Edited July 27, 2019 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, bill94d said: I have stopped going to Somerset this season for the following reasons. They put prices up, they stopped pensioners concessions, they dropped a league and they cleared nearly the whole team out (including a world champion) year after year. It generates no fan loyalty to the "team" because it isn't going to be the team next year. You never get the same team out week after week because of injuries and R/R is a joke. Some riders (like now) decide that "British speedway is too hard" and bale out. Tish! It will take a lot to get me and my friends back (sorry Debbie but you have got it wrong) and I still happily watch good racing on the TV which is better value than going to my home track. Shame but there it is. Am I really understanding this. Somerset have dropped a division. They no longer have one of the very best in the world riding for them. And they have put the prices UP! Absolutely staggering ineptitude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, steve roberts said: I would agree in principle however in my line of work (tourism) by allowing children in free (whether five or fifteen years of age) doesn't necessarily increase the number of paying adults (although that is/was the incentive behind the scheme) and one of the attractions in York has had to abandon it's 'free' children option as they have been experiencing serious losses financially. Of course making the attraction (whatever the product) desirable is the essence of achieving financial reward and thereby lies the problem in many instances. In my line of work we continually cut prices and often have big 'price cut launches' which are planned well in advance.. These launches cover the full package. ie a great marketing and service plan, often with loyalty card recruitment at the heart of it, allied to an operating model structure that over the key first week of the campaign will see the stores at their very best and have plenty of colleague engagement with customers.. You get but one chance to make a first impression.. Which can become the lasting one too!! We don't however enter into price cutting without a detailed cost review that has to line up with any margin loss, as this would be financial suicide, therefore if any margin shortfall will be forecasted to result, and volume increase won't cover it, then the cost base is reduced accordingly to pay for the investment in price.. Speedway on the other hand, seems to have a 'build it and they will come' mentality... It needs much, much more than that.. As the NSS so acutely highlights.. Great racing, yet hardly any more fans than the dog bowl had.. Maybe some of the (literally) several millions of pounds that collectively all clubs will pay out in total to riders in a season (who 99% of the UK wouldnt have a clue who they are), could be better invested in a joined up, collective, national marketing campaign, driven by marketing professionals that might help improve Speedways 'brand recognition'..? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill94d Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 2 hours ago, BWitcher said: Am I really understanding this. Somerset have dropped a division. They no longer have one of the very best in the world riding for them. And they have put the prices UP! Absolutely staggering ineptitude. Absolutely correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, steve roberts said: I work within the tourim industry and all sorts of incentives have been adopted in an attempt to generate more income. Schemes such as allowing those aged 15 and under free entry (as long as with a paying adult) but, alas, it hasn't worked...infact the scheme is about to be dropped due to lost revenue. Where I work the admission fee is constantly being reviewed and, dare I say, increases are the result to help off-set the loses. Living in York there is so much competion as regards attractions and it's a constant juggle to try and encourage visitors who only have so much to spend. Family tickets, free entry for twelve months (which is more often than not a trade off...only those living relatively locally are able to utilise the scheme) as well as other initiatives but they are continually under constant review and invariably admission prices are raised as a result. ...as a postscript it also appears that because of the school curriculum constantly changing effects the number of school groups attending educational aimed attractions which, again, has a knock on effect regarding numbers and/or revenue generated. Tourist attractions constantly have to battle all sorts of criteria despite the many incentives that may apply. Edited July 28, 2019 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 18 hours ago, BWitcher said: Am I really understanding this. Somerset have dropped a division. They no longer have one of the very best in the world riding for them. And they have put the prices UP! Absolutely staggering ineptitude. But within the sport, it is regarded as a well run, well-managed club. And that is how the BSPA view the whole UK sport. Clear vision or delusional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, bill94d said: Absolutely correct. Not totally it isn't. True, concessions were dropped - which has been advocated on several occasions by members of this forum - but entry for adults went from £17 to £16. http://www.somerset-speedway.com/news.php?extend.2121.1 http://www.somerset-speedway.com/ticketoffice.php Its a good example as to how a club's reputation can be damaged by misinformation being accepted as the truth. Edited July 28, 2019 by Halifaxtiger 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 Re concessions scrapped (was £15), and all adults now £16. Is the spectator base mostly over concession age? If so, scrapping £15 concession and decreasing adult entry to £16 most probably will provide an increase of revenue and make turnstile work easier. Clever, but risk upsetting those who were concessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill94d Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 6 hours ago, OveFundinFan said: Re concessions scrapped (was £15), and all adults now £16. Is the spectator base mostly over concession age? If so, scrapping £15 concession and decreasing adult entry to £16 most probably will provide an increase of revenue and make turnstile work easier. Clever, but risk upsetting those who were concessions. As I said, me and my friends have given it up. OK I was wrong, strictly speaking about the adult entrance, but for me as a 70+-year-old it went up. That still doesn't negate the other reasons, namely that next year there will be 5 or 6 new riders, so team loyalty is never built up and we went down from the top flight. It's like charging more for the gods in a theatre than the front row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShyTalk Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Did a couple of comparisons myself using Bank of England Inflation calculator. Went to some Sheffield Eagles rugby league games during their first season, 1984. Adult admission was £2.00, which wouold equate to £6.31 in today's terms. They now charge £16.00 in ticket ordered online in advance, £18.00 on the day. In 1979 did some bar work and remember beer was £0.30 a pint now the equivalent of £1.50, considerably cheaper than any pubs I know of. Seems leisure activities outpace inflation quite considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, ShyTalk said: Did a couple of comparisons myself using Bank of England Inflation calculator. Went to some Sheffield Eagles rugby league games during their first season, 1984. Adult admission was £2.00, which wouold equate to £6.31 in today's terms. They now charge £16.00 in ticket ordered online in advance, £18.00 on the day. In 1979 did some bar work and remember beer was £0.30 a pint now the equivalent of £1.50, considerably cheaper than any pubs I know of. Seems leisure activities outpace inflation quite considerably. Try using the GDP deflator - it gives a more appropriate result where labour and land are the principle costs rather than materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 On 7/28/2019 at 7:53 AM, waytogo28 said: But within the sport, it is regarded as a well run, well-managed club. And that is how the BSPA view the whole UK sport. Clear vision or delusional? Delusional,IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwright71 Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 I think the sport has sunk so far in Britain for so long it will be impossible to resuscitate it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, iwright71 said: I think the sport has sunk so far in Britain for so long it will be impossible to resuscitate it. Slowly but surely IMO what you reflect iwright71 is beginning to be realised. Well said. Edited August 9, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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