Should we scrap Team Speedway?

[Falcon1983]

11 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

So . . . how many meetings does a track have in a season?

You could only realistically use tracks that are also used for other events, as there will only be a handful of meeting per year, so those only facilitated for speedway on it's own and has no other income other than speedway will be for housing, which is what will happen to the sport eventually anyway.

[Trees]

No

[waytogo28]

Team Speedway has vastly more appeal for me but only if the quality of racing can be improved. As it stands  I can take it or leave ( UK speedway regardless of who is riding or in what format it is presented ). Gate & Go is boring and pointless.

Perhaps it's time to involve style and position on the bike supplementary scores. Choice of music and interpretation of the same could also be brought in as well as kevlar and bike appearance. How about Le Man style bump starts? Or the first half lap could be as we currently have - ie gating excellence being the main skill and then the second half of the one lap races could involve the style of finishing that lap. And rodeo style clowns, do they have a part to play in future? 

Almost any kind of "circus" is more welcome than what we are offered at present.

[Falcon1983]

If team speedway was to stay I think something like a 12 team league with a squad of 5 riders and it runs on a 4TT format even at semi professional standards with a youth league similar to what the conference is now.

That would at least give fans the chance to identify with their club, no doubling up and also its individual racing but with a team goal in mind.

If standardised points money was brought in across the board also so you earn what you score per meeting based on say 600-800 spectators then promoters could even make money

The sport either needs one professional league or division or individual or even semi pro, the sport is not a profession any more it's a hobby and riders need to understand this 

[Grachan]

9 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

If team speedway was to stay I think something like a 12 team league with a squad of 5 riders and it runs on a 4TT format even at semi professional standards with a youth league similar to what the conference is now.

That would at least give fans the chance to identify with their club, no doubling up and also its individual racing but with a team goal in mind.

If standardised points money was brought in across the board also so you earn what you score per meeting based on say 600-800 spectators then promoters could even make money

The sport either needs one professional league or division or individual or even semi pro, the sport is not a profession any more it's a hobby and riders need to understand this 

I'm sure your ideas are well intentioned, but you seem to be coming up with theories that will make crowds even lower. Why would you want the sport to only attract 600-800 spectators at the top level?

[waytogo28]

2 minutes ago, Grachan said:

The sport either needs one professional league or division or individual or even semi pro, the sport is not a profession any more it's a hobby and riders need to understand this 

The sport in the UK is indeed not a profession any more. Or rather it cannot be in the future and riders need to understand this. Those that say they cannot make it pay without doubling up must either improve and get into European racing or take a job. No bleating hearts!

[mikebv]

42 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I'm sure your ideas are well intentioned, but you seem to be coming up with theories that will make crowds even lower. Why would you want the sport to only attract 600-800 spectators at the top level?

To be fair to Falcon1983, 600-800 crowds are being delivered now at the top level..

Which does suggest a 'broken' operating model..

Something needs to be done to improve things..

Doing the 'same old, same old' can only end up one way, sadly..

It's not 'selling' now so won't miraculously start doing so..

Edited June 24, 2019 by mikebv

[Falcon1983]

2 hours ago, Grachan said:

I'm sure your ideas are well intentioned, but you seem to be coming up with theories that will make crowds even lower. Why would you want the sport to only attract 600-800 spectators at the top level?

I will explain

I mean if there was some form of standard points money on offer in a revamped semi pro league, either team racing or individual you could start by basing it off 600-800 per meeting or per round or however the format is

So let's say it's for a team championship but based on the 4TT structure, that's 4 clubs at one track, 16 heats of racing 

If you say 800 x £18 thats £14,400 so £900 worth of prize money per race

4th = £50

3rd = £100

2nd = £200

1st = £400

That works out at £750 per heat so promoter already has £150 left over per heat plus whatever excess he gets through the gate

If at Foxhall for example they can easily double 800 people so the promoter or series will have £2,400 + £14,400 which would be profitable after costs

Less racing so less costs to the riders in terms of maintenance, if they can secure enough sponsorship to cover racing costs and they average say 3 seconds and a last place over 20 meetings a season that's £13000 from a hobby 

 

[Spl77]

On 6/22/2019 at 11:23 PM, Falcon1983 said:

I've been thinking about this for a while, team speedway is not really a viable option at the moment in terms of riders doubling up etc across 2 or 3 divisions.

I understand they are trying to do away with it over 5 years and that there are a crop of youngsters whom in 5 years time may be able to boost numbers.

However, what state will the sport be in when 5 years is up, will there be a sport left?

Personally i think team speedway is already on it's way out, it's only the fans whom cling on to team speedway purely as they have already built a relationship and affection with their chosen club.

I think individual speedway is the way forward for the Sport perhaps not the way forward for clubs.

I can see there being perhaps 4 divisions of 16 riders call it a Premier League, Division One, Division Two and Three

Potentially ran to the same format as the speedway grand prix, with a broadcaster like Sky TV doing something big with the main league where the prize money can be something quite attractive to riders.

Run from April - August covering 10 championship rounds, with some form of promotion/relegation bottom 4 riders in the premiership going down top 4 from Division One going up etc. All the way down to Division 3

Rounds ran on Friday, Saturday or Sundays to boost attendances 

Just for fun, which 16 would be in your premiership? Mine would be

1. Jason Doyle

2. Max Fricke

3. Troy Batchelor

4. Robert Lambert

5. Craig Cook

6. Kenneth Bjerre

7. Rory Schlein

8. Jacob Thorsell

9. Brady Kurtz

10. Jack Holder

11. Hans Andersen

12. Chris Harris

13. Danny King

14. Scott Nicholls

15. Richard Lawson

16. Dan Bewley

 

Ten Rounds at

Belle Vue

Swindon

Glasgow

Ipswich

Olympic Stadium 

Sheffield

Poole

Kings Lynn

Birmingham 

Peterborough 

I these new way forward ideas some of which need consideration as the current operation model is not working. 

However these new proposals loose all credibility when random things are chucked in I mean a domestic competition at the Olympic stadium is pure fantasy. 

[SteveLyric2]

Have you heard of VAT, Stadium rent and operating costs?

Edited June 24, 2019 by Skidder1

[Falcon1983]

1 hour ago, Spl77 said:

I these new way forward ideas some of which need consideration as the current operation model is not working. 

However these new proposals loose all credibility when random things are chucked in I mean a domestic competition at the Olympic stadium is pure fantasy. 

This is the problem with promoters, no ambition, why not the olympic stadium for say a british final or end of season round of a championship? Speedway needs to be in the heart beat of this country and that is London 

[Falcon1983]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

Have you heard of VAT, Stadium rent and operating costs?

Very familiar with all 3 well bar stadium rent, but even on the figures quoted deducting VAT and operational costs, still profitbal for a promoter, the same promoter who claim they dont make any money from the sport which they do or they wouldn't promote 

[AFCB Wildcat]

On 6/24/2019 at 2:31 PM, Falcon1983 said:

Very familiar with all 3 well bar stadium rent, but even on the figures quoted deducting VAT and operational costs, still profitbal for a promoter, the same promoter who claim they dont make any money from the sport which they do or they wouldn't promote 

I agree with you that team speedway at top level in its current format isn't working but a 16 man GP series wouldn't produce enough meetings for either riders or clubs.

I would retain the team speedway in the top flight but in a 4 team tournament format with 4 man teams and a reserve like the old world cup format run alongside the GP series you suggest. Maybe less fixtures would attract some of the big names back and increase quality? I know people will bemoan the loss of team riding (which is virtually extinct anyway) but what we have now isn't working so change is needed in my opinion.

If teams still lack fixtures they can enter National league sides to bring on the next generation as I think this still works in its current format.

[SteveLyric2]

Rather than one league I reckon a format with 3 regional divisions is a likely next step depending on what happens with the TV deal in the future. Negotiations that are to be 'completed' before end August could severely affect the future structure.

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

Rather than one league I reckon a format with 3 regional divisions is a likely next step depending on what happens with the TV deal in the future. Negotiations that are to be 'completed' before end August could severely affect the future structure.

Buster had the right idea..

Plenty of local derbies..

Therefore. Use a regional conference system like the NFL does..

Plenty of local derbies but several national matches too to add variety....

Best of both worlds..

 

 

 

[SteveLyric2]

14 hours ago, mikebv said:

Buster had the right idea..

Plenty of local derbies..

Therefore. Use a regional conference system like the NFL does..

Plenty of local derbies but several national matches too to add variety....

Best of both worlds..

 

 

 

I believe Len Silver is keen on this format and has spoken to several promoters, including at least one Premiership club!! 

[Falcon1983]

18 hours ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

I agree with you that team speedway at top level in its current format isn't working but a 16 man GP series wouldn't produce enough meetings for either riders or clubs.

I would retain the team speedway in the top flight but in a 4 team tournament format with 4 man teams and a reserve like the old world cup format run alongside the GP series you suggest. Maybe less fixtures would attract some of the big names back and increase quality? I know people will bemoan the loss of team riding (which is virtually extinct anyway) but what we have now isn't working so change is needed in my opinion.

If teams still lack fixtures they can enter National league sides to bring on the next generation as I think this still works in its current format.

I would agree with this 100%

If you had 4 divisions of 16 riders for the individual series you could then have 16 teams for the 4team club championship

And do some form of NFL draft system in terms of picks