Wee Eck Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: God man this is the NL young uns like Kemp, and a endless amount of young talent are getting opportunities there has to be a mix though. For example Wallinger gets released at Mildenhall gets a guest booking at Scunthorpe why stop him ? madness this sport is obsessed with rules Chris Holder and David Wallinger is not a great example to put your point across. On the contrary. Wallinger is 35 and going nowhere. The sport needs to encourage riders who can contribute to the future. There’s not many of those who are without team places and they should be the ones encouraged to improve themselves by taking guest bookings, not guys who are going nowhere. With apologies to Mr Wallinger - who I don’t know and doubt if I’ve ever seen ride - at 35, he must simply be riding for his own benefit, rather than because he wants to develop his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Wee Eck said: On the contrary. Wallinger is 35 and going nowhere. The sport needs to encourage riders who can contribute to the future. There’s not many of those who are without team places and they should be the ones encouraged to improve themselves by taking guest bookings, not guys who are going nowhere. With apologies to Mr Wallinger - who I don’t know and doubt if I’ve ever seen ride - at 35, he must simply be riding for his own benefit, rather than because he wants to develop his career. Totally missing the point my point was he was released by Mildenhall but why wouldn't he be able to take a guest booking or a individual meeting elsewhere.??? I am with you on youngsters yes they should get priority everytime but are you saying the likes of Ledwith,Bowen, Perry, Wilson, etc) are going nowhere and should be deprived of a place there has to be a balance.The NL is in a great place right now with Rowe,Palin, Thompson twins, Spooner, Ablitt, Pavitt, Gilkes, Kelly,Wirtzfield,Rathbone ( etc) all coming through. My main gripe is the sport has endless unnecessary rules that are in place your theory is that Wallinger is going nowhere but nobody stopped the likes of Jimmy Schibb, Ken Mckinlay,Malc Holloway ( etc ) doing a job and contributing at a lower level in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterPlinge Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 7 hours ago, GWC said: This is where this league falls down taking itself too seriously. Rolling averages at this level doesn’t help either The NDL doesn't use rolling averages.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Eck Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 35 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Totally missing the point my point was he was released by Mildenhall but why wouldn't he be able to take a guest booking or a individual meeting elsewhere.??? I am with you on youngsters yes they should get priority everytime but are you saying the likes of Ledwith,Bowen, Perry, Wilson, etc) are going nowhere and should be deprived of a place there has to be a balance.The NL is in a great place right now with Rowe,Palin, Thompson twins, Spooner, Ablitt, Pavitt, Gilkes, Kelly,Wirtzfield,Rathbone ( etc) all coming through. My main gripe is the sport has endless unnecessary rules that are in place your theory is that Wallinger is going nowhere but nobody stopped the likes of Jimmy Schibb, Ken Mckinlay,Malc Holloway ( etc ) doing a job and contributing at a lower level in the past. Actually yes. Maybe not Perry, but certainly Ledwith (late 40s!) Bowen (30 - but not riding) and Wilson (I assume you mean Ben, aged 33) should be “encouraged” to find an amateur league they can have a bit of a skid in, but leave the development league for developing new British riders. For the sake of survival, we need two leagues in this country - a feeder league populated by teams that can’t make ends meet at a higher level, a league which pays expenses and nothing more, and a balanced professional league, largely filled with Brits, that can entertain the fans. If that league becomes a feeder to Poland, so be it, but we need to recognise that there is no other professional motor sport that pays a decent living to riders learning their trade. Promoters and fans have been subsidising these riders long enough. Time for them to start earning a living in as hard a way as do most supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloom89 Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: What a pathetic comment not everybody can become world class, he has been released by Mildenhall so if he gets booking's he should be able to honour them.People have been saying for years this sport has pathetic rules in place , more attention should be going towards promoting the sport and making sure people are getting value for money and being entertained. Everyone is allowed an opinion and in truth he isn’t going to get any better is he? Everyone complains that speedway bends the rules but now there sticking to the rules you are still not happy? For arguments sake say Craig cook got released for some reason would you say for example Chris holder could guest because he was unattached? And that the guest booking should be honoured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bloom89 said: Everyone is allowed an opinion and in truth he isn’t going to get any better is he? Everyone complains that speedway bends the rules but now there sticking to the rules you are still not happy? For arguments sake say Craig cook got released for some reason would you say for example Chris holder could guest because he was unattached? And that the guest booking should be honoured? Your opinion is respected and valid , my only criticism was you were criticising the level of the rider every rider has my utter respect.whatever the level they are. Edited June 19, 2019 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloom89 Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Your opinion is respected and valid , my only criticism was you were criticising the level of the rider every rider has my utter respect.whatever the level they are. Yeah I understand that but Wallinger has been around the same average for the past 2/3 seasons I don’t think he will get any better and he’s hardly a youngster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, Wee Eck said: Actually yes. Maybe not Perry, but certainly Ledwith (late 40s!) Bowen (30 - but not riding) and Wilson (I assume you mean Ben, aged 33) should be “encouraged” to find an amateur league they can have a bit of a skid in, but leave the development league for developing new British riders. For the sake of survival, we need two leagues in this country - a feeder league populated by teams that can’t make ends meet at a higher level, a league which pays expenses and nothing more, and a balanced professional league, largely filled with Brits, that can entertain the fans. If that league becomes a feeder to Poland, so be it, but we need to recognise that there is no other professional motor sport that pays a decent living to riders learning their trade. Promoters and fans have been subsidising these riders long enough. Time for them to start earning a living in as hard a way as do most supporters. Without the likes of those riders named the league would be a sham, those older riders also give help and there guidance to the younger riders.As i see it no younger riders are missing out at the moment it is a great time for the UK for developing talent the future looks bright.The NL as I see it have a great balance and the league is a good product in its own right also do you think Danny Ayres is to old.? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 10 hours ago, bloom89 said: Yeah I understand that but Wallinger has been around the same average for the past 2/3 seasons I don’t think he will get any better and he’s hardly a youngster. I think the this is one of the few areas where the reduction in points limit has worked to an extent as the idea at least was to force riders to improve, move up or move out. My biggest gripe with the NL is often the amount of riders who tread water for season after season and ultimately block up team places for others who are trying to break into the sport. The top guys (who all had to start somewhere) do have things to offer but the middling guys / persistent slow burners are what needs addressing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkypotter Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Without the likes of those riders named the league would be a sham, those older riders also give help and there guidance to the younger riders.As i see it no younger riders are missing out at the moment it is a great time for the UK for developing talent the future looks bright.The NL as I see it have a great balance and the league is a good product in its own right also do you think Danny Ayres is to old.? think you have it spot on there Sidney. the national league is a good product with a mix of more experienced riders passing on their knowledge and help to the youngsters. then the cream will rise to the top and the more talented riders will move up and so the circle starts again. others who for whatever reason don,t move up are there ready for the next batch. when I left school I started work as an apprentice and learned my skills off the senior men and that is the way it happens in all walks of life. so I say hurrah for the middle of the road riders who want to go out and enjoy their racing while passing on tips to the young starters. I do not think having a team of seven youngsters would not be a good product to sell to the public. for me I always look forward to the likes of danny ayres coming to lock horns with our boys each to their own but for me the national league is doing just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, porkypotter said: think you have it spot on there Sidney. the national league is a good product with a mix of more experienced riders passing on their knowledge and help to the youngsters. then the cream will rise to the top and the more talented riders will move up and so the circle starts again. others who for whatever reason don,t move up are there ready for the next batch. when I left school I started work as an apprentice and learned my skills off the senior men and that is the way it happens in all walks of life. so I say hurrah for the middle of the road riders who want to go out and enjoy their racing while passing on tips to the young starters. I do not think having a team of seven youngsters would not be a good product to sell to the public. for me I always look forward to the likes of danny ayres coming to lock horns with our boys each to their own but for me the national league is doing just fine. For me Porky when the likes of Kemp can regularly beat the likes of a Roynon, Ayres type he moves on.Kemp has and to be fair he is not totally dominant at this level but is now in a hard top 5 at champs level.But for me the NL is certainly better now than when i watched the Conference league.It is great when a Kemp/ Rowe/ Palin / Bickley ( ect) makes progress the NL is doing it's job and with Vatcher at the helm of youth speedway the future looks bright Neil has done a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Eck Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Without the likes of those riders named the league would be a sham, those older riders also give help and there guidance to the younger riders.As i see it no younger riders are missing out at the moment it is a great time for the UK for developing talent the future looks bright.The NL as I see it have a great balance and the league is a good product in its own right also do you think Danny Ayres is to old.? The difference with Danny Ayres is that he’s managing to hold down a Championship League place of course. I take your point on having an experienced older rider in the team, but, in my view, that should be a rider who has recently held a position in a more senior team or successfully raced in the top league. That would include riders like Carl Wilkinson or Adam Roynon, but not Ledwith, Wallinger or Wilson. It is my view that part of the problems in UK, problems that are only now being addressed, stemmed from allowing the training league to go professional. This then encouraged teams to strengthen thereby restricting opportunities for “beginners” to move into teams. It took two things to change that - a ready supply of new riders, helped hugely by Neil Vatcher and the amazing success of the British Youth Championship, and a restriction on team building at development level. For me, the next stage is to go to two leagues with the top league being slightly stronger than the current CL, maybe built to whatever points the top team in this year’s CL achieve, and a development league that pays away match travel expenses only. That way, the Buxtons, Mildenhalls, Stokes, IOWs of this world can function successfully (and maybe be a fiver a head entry) while the top league can provide opportunities and a financial incentive for more riders to move up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Wee Eck said: The difference with Danny Ayres is that he’s managing to hold down a Championship League place of course. I take your point on having an experienced older rider in the team, but, in my view, that should be a rider who has recently held a position in a more senior team or successfully raced in the top league. That would include riders like Carl Wilkinson or Adam Roynon, but not Ledwith, Wallinger or Wilson. It is my view that part of the problems in UK, problems that are only now being addressed, stemmed from allowing the training league to go professional. This then encouraged teams to strengthen thereby restricting opportunities for “beginners” to move into teams. It took two things to change that - a ready supply of new riders, helped hugely by Neil Vatcher and the amazing success of the British Youth Championship, and a restriction on team building at development level. For me, the next stage is to go to two leagues with the top league being slightly stronger than the current CL, maybe built to whatever points the top team in this year’s CL achieve, and a development league that pays away match travel expenses only. That way, the Buxtons, Mildenhalls, Stokes, IOWs of this world can function successfully (and maybe be a fiver a head entry) while the top league can provide opportunities and a financial incentive for more riders to move up. You make some great points and i totally agree with nearly all of it.My take on it is young riders have to beat the older hands to get even close to competing at champs level the Champs now is a very tough league indeed.If say a Palin was beating only his own age group he would never progress so he needs to beat the older hands first on a regular basis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Did Jon Armstrong retire or was he forced out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, bruno said: Did Jon Armstrong retire or was he forced out? Tony Atkin as well.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient mariner Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 So, unless I have misinterpreted the general trend of opinion on this thread, David Wallinger is not in a ludicrous situation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Wallinger has signed for plymouth replacing scott Campos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, lewy said: Wallinger has signed for plymouth replacing scott Campos Crumbs. Will leave it to the Plymouth fans to react to that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Wallinger rides the plymouth track well he will make them stronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted June 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 And can now take Championship guest bookings! So my point still stands....ridiculous rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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