Midland Red Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: The knock on effect of one league means no doubling up riders therefore top riders will be more in demand and want bigger wages. There will be a huge bun fight for riders and the poorer clubs can not compete. Put the likes of Newcastle or Redcar up against the finances of Poole , Kings Lynn or Glasgow in competing for riders and it just doesn't work. It didn't in 96 when it was one league , one club couldn't even get seven riders! The riders will have to reduce their costs and lower their expectations first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 3 hours ago, LesR said: £3k is what some clubs have to pay to rent their stadium, aside from all the other costs!! If those clubs who are paying £3k in rent are surviving now with what they are paying the riders, which I suspect is more than £5k a meeting, they should be able to survive on mikebv's suggestion. Way too high that quotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Midland Red said: The riders will have to reduce their costs and lower their expectations first Many will be out of work if they don’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Midland Red said: The riders will have to reduce their costs and lower their expectations first They won't because the money clubs will pay top money for the best riders. Always have done always will do. Then the middle order become more in demand and they want a better rate , and so it goes on. Last season a top 4 National League club paid their no.7 ( new superstar in the making) more a point than my local championship side were paying their no.2! Poole and Glasgow , for example, will pay their no.1 mega bucks to get the best rider. Then their number 2 sees what the number 1 is getting and asks for slightly less and gets it because he's the best number 2 around, and so it goes on and on but with the poorer clubs left to try and pick up the last ones available. Modern riders expect to be fully professional and get paid accordingly. Unfortunately speedway in this country is a semi professional sport at best and can't afford this situation much longer. Everyone needs to get real or the sport implodes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: They won't because the money clubs will pay top money for the best riders. Always have done always will do. Then the middle order become more in demand and they want a better rate , and so it goes on. Last season a top 4 National League club paid their no.7 ( new superstar in the making) more a point than my local championship side were paying their no.2! Poole and Glasgow , for example, will pay their no.1 mega bucks to get the best rider. Then their number 2 sees what the number 1 is getting and asks for slightly less and gets it because he's the best number 2 around, and so it goes on and on but with the poorer clubs left to try and pick up the last ones available. Modern riders expect to be fully professional and get paid accordingly. Unfortunately speedway in this country is a semi professional sport at best and can't afford this situation much longer. Everyone needs to get real or the sport implodes. Everybody the sport is self destructing, except the people running it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 There has to be a form of rider control such as we had years ago, so the "richer" (less poor) clubs would be unable to accumulate the cream of the crop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Skidder1 said: £3k is what some clubs have to pay to rent their stadium, aside from all the other costs!! Not saying it would cover all costs but would go some way to help pay for them... Maybe also give 200 tickets to the away club for each match, to sell only from their ticket office at a tenner a pop? Even if only 100 get taken up its another grand, and 100 away fans stood together would bring a bit of tribalism and atmosphere to the sport which is sadly lacking at present.. Local derbies against traditional rivals would get a good couple of hundred I would think most times if charged a tenner which would deliver a real intense atmosphere that other team sports generate.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Midland Red said: There has to be a form of rider control such as we had years ago, so the "richer" (less poor) clubs would be unable to accumulate the cream of the crop No good living in the past. Rider control will not work, riders are self employed and would go to court ( and win ) if they were told to ride somewhere they didn't want too. Besides 3 promoters own 50% of the riders who are currently still riding in both divisions, so that won't get manipulated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Not saying it would cover all costs but would go some way to help pay for them... Maybe also give 200 tickets to the away club for each match, to sell only from their ticket office at a tenner a pop? Even if only 100 get taken up its another grand, and 100 away fans stood together would bring a bit of tribalism and atmosphere to the sport which is sadly lacking at present.. Local derbies against traditional rivals would get a good couple of hundred I would think most times if charged a tenner which would deliver a real intense atmosphere that other team sports generate.. When was the last time you saw more than 50 away fans at a meeting other than a very close local derby or a play off final? My last local derby saw a mini bus and several cars , total around 40 and they only had to travel less than 75 miles.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: When was the last time you saw more than 50 away fans at a meeting other than a very close local derby or a play off final? My last local derby saw a mini bus and several cars , total around 40 and they only had to travel less than 75 miles.   Exactly. .. So charge away fans a tenner... Who knows maybe the club could help with a subsidised coach hire or two? 100 away fans cheering on their team might inspire their riders a bit more.. But more importantly it would make the meeting an 'event' (like other 'proper' team sports have), giving it meaning, purpose and relevance, (not to mention atmosphere), which some might find worth in attending again.. Edited July 6, 2019 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS50 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 4 hours ago, mikebv said:  Maybe also give 200 tickets to the away club for each match, to sell only from their ticket office at a tenner a pop?  And risk some clever sod buying the lot and selling them to home fans for £12.00 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Exactly. .. So charge away fans a tenner... Who knows maybe the club could help with a subsidised coach hire or two? 100 away fans cheering on their team might inspire their riders a bit more.. But more importantly it would make the meeting an 'event' (like other 'proper' team sports have), giving it meaning, purpose and relevance, (not to mention atmosphere), which some might find worth in attending again.. Clubs have no money but you want them to subsidise a coach for the 20 or so away fans that they may be lucky to have follow them who would follow them anyway? How do you police the 'away' fans? Do they have to produce I.D.??? I travel 80 miles each week to my nearest track, am I an ' away ' fan ? Fans don't travel because it's too expensive to attend two meetings a week , with travel, entrance and food, it's only the hardcore that still follow their team. An example was my club last season when they gave an award to ONE fan who had attended every fixture , home and away.....ONE fan! says a lot really. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 57 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: Clubs have no money but you want them to subsidise a coach for the 20 or so away fans that they may be lucky to have follow them who would follow them anyway? How do you police the 'away'Â fans? Do they have to produce I.D.??? I travel 80 miles each week to my nearest track, am I an ' away ' fan ? Fans don't travel because it's too expensive to attend two meetings a week , with travel, entrance and food, it's only the hardcore that still follow their team. An example was my club last season when they gave an award to ONE fan who had attended every fixture , home and away.....ONE fan! says a lot really. It was a rarity to see a coachload of Leicester fans turn up at Eastbourne last sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 5 hours ago, RS50 said: And risk some clever sod buying the lot and selling them to home fans for £12.00 I doubt touting would be a problem in a domestic Speedway meeting. . Fair play though if someone wants to travel to pick them all up and travel back and stand outside a venue and try and sell them... Maybe like the Poles do there could be an 'away end' (or a bench as it would probably only need) so the tickets marked 'away fans only' can only be used there.. I am sure this would put off any 'sharp practice' because as everyone knows 'your place is your place' week in week out and no one would want to lose 'their place'.. Bottom line is hardly any away fans travel now and the atmosphere is crap at most Speedway meetings.. Manchester Library will have more atmosphere and noise on a daily basis than the NSS does on a race night, (and that's a track that delivers great racing to be excited about!).. As a kid in the 70's  I remember the Aces v Sheffield matches in particular and they stand out because hundreds of tigers fans came to watch. Cant remember much about the racing but do remember the noise created and the atmosphere generated by those followers.. Similar the Aces v Wolves matches of the early to mid nineties at the Dog Bowl, again the racing was secondary to what I remember about the 'banter' and the fact the result actually meant something given the passion of both sets of supporters.. Poland is a perfect Speedway example of how away fans generate that tribal atmosphere so important at a 'team sport event'. All in their teams colours replica T shirts.. And obviously many other team sports rely on the away following to generate atmosphere in their grounds, hence 'twenty is plenty' was adopted even by the 'God is Money' Football administration, as away numbers were dropping at some clubs... Hardly any away fans go now so nothing will change atmosphere wise until they do.. Time to think a bit more radically on how you can get them there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said: Clubs have no money but you want them to subsidise a coach for the 20 or so away fans that they may be lucky to have follow them who would follow them anyway? How do you police the 'away' fans? Do they have to produce I.D.??? I travel 80 miles each week to my nearest track, am I an ' away ' fan ? Fans don't travel because it's too expensive to attend two meetings a week , with travel, entrance and food, it's only the hardcore that still follow their team. An example was my club last season when they gave an award to ONE fan who had attended every fixture , home and away.....ONE fan! says a lot really. You wouldn't be an 'away fan' just because you live 80 miles away as that is your team.. You would only be an 'away fan' if you purchase your ticket from the 'away club'.. Now in your case as you live 80 miles away from your own teams circuit that might mean you have another team closer? I suppose therefore if that is the case you could buy a ticket from them and attend as an 'away fan' when the teams meet, but that would be very much an isolated scenario I would suggest. . To 'police it' tickets would only be sold in person at the away venue, no post, no emails etc.. Maybe more than just 'one fan' would be encourged to attend all season if they had some savings to be made to motivate them? Oe maybe just let them in for free? Then the restrictive travel costs, and any expenditure on the night, is the only outlay.. As can be seen from your example, hardly any away fans are there now so clubs would hardly lose any significant revenue.. And just maybe it will grow the overall experience to encourage more locals to attend more regularly? Edited July 7, 2019 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHarris Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Quote Going a little away from the subject here but look at the size of the crowd in this. Promoters would be c****g in their pants to have this today.   1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS50 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Recently saw an old photo of Sheffield speedway. Think it was from 1947 with a crowd of 43000. That will probably be more than the crowd for the entire season now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, kelvinlapworth said: Â Cam u imagine todays superstars trying to ride a track like today would give rory something to moam about ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) The sport needs to focus on tracks that can be sustained without the need for dog racing. Its future isn’t good as pressure from real estate development grows and people find chasing dogs not ethical in today’s sanitised world. Losing Coventry and then Rye and Lakeside wasn't in the plan!    Edited July 8, 2019 by GWC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, GWC said: The sport needs to focus on tracks that can be sustained without the need for dog racing. Its future isn’t good as pressure from real estate development grows and people find chasing dogs not ethical in today’s sanitised world. Losing Coventry and then Rye and Lakeside wasn't in the plan!    Something definitely to consider.. You do feel that it's only a matter of time before greyhound racing is 'hounded out' of existence given it's poor PR... Definitely feels like an orchestrated agenda gathering momentum against the greyhound fraternity.. Not to mention the falling crowds it suffers.. Housing development is much sought after politically too by local MP's so they won't be too favourable towards the greyhound followers I would suggest.. Edited July 8, 2019 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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