Icicle Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 Reminded me of Kozza (Krazy K!) characters like that are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Garry1603 Posted June 18, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) I guess it comes down to the question if the sport (as opposed to the promoters with vested interests) need two 'top' leagues or not. If keeping them separate to allow the top riders to ride / earn at the top level, well that clearly doesn't work with only Doyle of the true 'Elite' still riding here. So why not accept the facts and adapt accordingly. Having a different team visiting each week rather than seeing a rotation of a few teams every couple of months would surely encourage the general fan base to come back each week. Clearly, there's not a big gap between the leagues anymore. so integration would be so much easier than in previous attempts. I used to hate the Rider Control idea as I was a Belle Vue fan, but needs must and if the sport is to survive, EVERY team needs to be competitive and more importantly, viable. When I was 11 in 1971 and going to my first season's meetings with Mum & Dad I'd be reading the Speedway Star on a Thursday and extolling the abilities of Reider Eide or Martin Ashby to them to 'persuade' them to take me on a Saturday to Hyde Road (they always did!) - I can't Imagine a young person now saying "oh, it's Brady Kurtz, Jacob Thorsell, Chris Harris coming to the NSS for the THIRD time in the last two months, can we go to watch.?" Adapt or die I'm afraid,    Edited June 18, 2019 by Garry1603 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 I like the idea of a big league, but there would be a serious rider shortage. Leaving aside the issue of doubling up, one big league would have to mean the end of fixed race nights so there woud be fixture clashes with Poland, especially, Sweden and Denmark. Belle Vue would almost certainly lose Fricke and Bjerre, Kings Lynn Lambert, Poole, Kurtz, Holder and Klindt, Swindon, Doyle, Musielak and Batchelor and Wolves, Thorsell and Masters. There may well be others. That's a lot of new riders to find on top of the double uppers (23, I read somewhere) How would we manage this problem. Even 6 man teams wouldn't be a solution. 5 man teams like in Denmark? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 One big league would have to be run at a maximum of current Championship level costs. The bigger worry from the larger teams entering in would be driving up overhead. A fixed payscale is the best way to achieve this but considering the NL fails to do that it is easier said than done. The last think we want is an 18 team league that soon drops to 12 or less as costs get driven up. 18 team league, 17 home fixtures plus Cup of 1-5 gives a full season for all and variety. Perhaps run 6 man teams to ensure enough riders and extra races so those who DU can at least get some extra heats to make up the income gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 2:08 PM, Midland Red said: One advantage of those days from the past - there was little or no televised speedway, live or recorded So, if you wanted to watch the sport, if you wanted to see the "big name" riders, the ONLY way was to pay your shillings and pence at the turnstiles With a big league in operation, there was probably only one chance a season (two with a cup meeting) to see the stars when they appeared at your track Other sports that are much more televised don't have a problem .. another only in speedway thing . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 2 hours ago, SteveEvans said: One big league would have to be run at a maximum of current Championship level costs. The bigger worry from the larger teams entering in would be driving up overhead. A fixed payscale is the best way to achieve this but considering the NL fails to do that it is easier said than done. The last think we want is an 18 team league that soon drops to 12 or less as costs get driven up. 18 team league, 17 home fixtures plus Cup of 1-5 gives a full season for all and variety. Perhaps run 6 man teams to ensure enough riders and extra races so those who DU can at least get some extra heats to make up the income gap. Exactly what I can see happening. One league, two or three, the only way I can see to reduce costs is to stop giving in to riders' demands. Riders need to realise that the sport in this country cannot afford full time, all year round professionals. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertsRacer Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 16 hours ago, orion said: Other sports that are much more televised don't have a problem .. another only in speedway thing . Problem is there is no atmosphere at live speedway these days, so you don't miss anything by watching it on TV. I watch ice hockey on TV and it is a bit dull, but go to a live match the atmosphere is electric with plenty of away supporters and lots of banter. I would always rather pay to watch a game live than watch it on TV. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/15/2019 at 6:53 AM, moxey63 said: It is a bit of a shipwreck right now. Comparing the two, we recovered from the fifties. I don't have confidence in recovering from this demise.  Rremember that it was the introduction of the entertainment tax that was at the root of the problem back then, not a lack of support. Plus, back then, there was no shortage of venues - and many potential venues - available. The Great British NIMBY has ensured that isn't the case now, as well as the demise of greyhound racing. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, chunky said: Rremember that it was the introduction of the entertainment tax that was at the root of the problem back then, not a lack of support. Plus, back then, there was no shortage of venues - and many potential venues - available. The Great British NIMBY has ensured that isn't the case now, as well as the demise of greyhound racing. Steve Which, apparently, speedway got hit with a massive 48% whereas other sports (including football) 'only' contributed 15% from gate receipts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertsRacer Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 Indeed. For whatever reason speedway was not classified as a sport but as an entertainment which had a much higher rate of tax. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertsRacer Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 46 minutes ago, chunky said: Rremember that it was the introduction of the entertainment tax that was at the root of the problem back then, not a lack of support. Plus, back then, there was no shortage of venues - and many potential venues - available. The Great British NIMBY has ensured that isn't the case now, as well as the demise of greyhound racing. Steve Although entertainment tax killed many tracks, attendances were already falling after the post war boom. You are right about the number of venues available at the time, many of which have now been demolished. Looking at pictures of some of these venues, which were right next to houses, they would never have got planning permission these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 It is also no new phenomenon, not wanting stadia near your home. Sure there were complaints way back in the 1930s about speedway racing in or around London. And it wasn't confined to the UK, as the track in Hamburg caused neighbours to complain and try to get it closed for a few years in the early 1930s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ore Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 21 hours ago, topsoil said: Exactly what I can see happening. One league, two or three, the only way I can see to reduce costs is to stop giving in to riders' demands. Riders need to realise that the sport in this country cannot afford full time, all year round professionals. Many post on here about riders demands but exactly how much are we actually talking about in simple money terms?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 hours ago, HertsRacer said: Although entertainment tax killed many tracks, attendances were already falling after the post war boom. You are right about the number of venues available at the time, many of which have now been demolished. Looking at pictures of some of these venues, which were right next to houses, they would never have got planning permission these days. Of course, attendances have been falling for years, but not to the embarrassing level they are at now. There are more people in the pits today than on the terraces... I've said this many times before, but speedway used to be a city-centre sport. I am sure (as iris says) that there were complaints from local residents, but not to the level - or voracity - they are these days. People used to be more tolerant - BSF members please note!!! When you think of the tracks that used to be right in the middle of residential area, it's incredible... Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 11 hours ago, Mr Ore said: Many post on here about riders demands but exactly how much are we actually talking about in simple money terms?  Standardised machines and no guarantees of any kind or signing on fees but with hugely increased points money to encourage "hungry " riders to race for each point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, waytogo28 said: Standardised machines and no guarantees of any kind or signing on fees but with hugely increased points money to encourage "hungry " riders to race for each point. Anecdotal and subjective evidence obviously, but... The racing in Poland (at all three levels not just the top league), does appear to be closer, with much more aggression shown.. I saw many races yesterday, with many not involving the out and out superstars, which had riders 'throwing bikes at each other'... I can only assume the financial rewards (and the pressure to remain in the team and keep them), must play a huge part in the decision making process of the riders... Doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same intensity in the UK which probably mirrors the racing... Maybe more performance pay would encourage more intensity? And maybe even include crowd numbers within that pay structure? ie double the crowd and double your money... Edited June 24, 2019 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 47 minutes ago, mikebv said: Maybe more performance pay would encourage more intensity? And maybe even include crowd numbers within that pay structure? ie double the crowd and double your money... Oh Yes, invariably the best motivation. No guarantees though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 A bit of analysis shows that currently we have : 7 Premiership clubs and 11 Championship clubs. If we merge both leagues we need 126 riders (18 clubs x 7). At the moment the Green sheet averages for both leagues show 99 different riders, there are 27 riders competing in both leagues. That's 55% of the premiership riders also riding in the championship league for any "Premiership elitists". ( 6 out 7 of the Ipswich team and 5 out of 7 Kings Lynn btw). So it either means 14, 7 man teams (98 riders), 16 6 man teams (96 riders) or the current 18 clubs with 5 man teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/23/2019 at 3:54 PM, iris123 said: It is also no new phenomenon, not wanting stadia near your home. Sure there were complaints way back in the 1930s about speedway racing in or around London. And it wasn't confined to the UK, as the track in Hamburg caused neighbours to complain and try to get it closed for a few years in the early 1930s Too right, Greenford and Walthamstow were two of the early casualties in the 1930's. Although the latter did return for a short spell post war. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 16 hours ago, Richard Weston said: When speedway came to King's Lynn and they joined the league in 1966, it was said that Terry Betts had a bonus clause in his contract related to the attendance. True or not, I have no idea. However, Betts was adored by the fans, so was probably worth every penny. Yes It's a true story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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