Belle Vue v Ipswich 03/06/19

[ray c]

racing incident but somebody had to be excluded

[DJC]

9 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Fricke hadn’t passed Harris though. Passing is when Fricke back wheel is in front of Harris front wheel. But Fricke’s footrest (middle of his bike) went through the spokes of Harris front wheel. Fricke basically hoped Harris would back off but he didn’t. Fricke to blame and rightly excluded.

 

Just to be clear - if they'd crossed the finish line with Fricke's foot peg in (or in line) with Harris' front wheel - who would have won the race?

[Gavan]

8 minutes ago, DJC said:

 

Just to be clear - if they'd crossed the finish line with Fricke's foot peg in (or in line) with Harris' front wheel - who would have won the race?

Bit of a daft statement and not really one that correlates either

Fricke was hard and went to far

He was HALF  a bike length up

I think some Belle Vue fans dont understand what consitutes 'being in front and riding where you like'

If you think its acceptable to be half a bike length up and ride into the side of someone and put them into the fence.....while the other person just keeps his line ... then i suggest you read the rulebook

Fricke rightly excluded.........not even up for debate

[Badge]

10 minutes ago, DJC said:

 

Just to be clear - if they'd crossed the finish line with Fricke's foot peg in (or in line) with Harris' front wheel - who would have won the race?

What's that got to do with the discussion 

In my humble opinion Bomber was on outside Max charging up inside thought he was passed him and tried to slam door shut, but as SS said he wasn't completely passed as his footrest entered bomber's front wheel. Correct decision and both unscathed 

[Baldyman]

Wow,, donuts everywhere 

[Halifaxtiger]

5 hours ago, acef said:

It’s promoted across social media pretty much on a daily basis and for a long time we had radio adverts and a huge board in Manchester.

The reality is that speedway is a dying sport in the uk and anything over 1500, even for BV, is a good crowd in today’s climate.

The simplicity is that is it’s too expensive. £20 pound to sit, vs other amateur sports, is way overpriced but it needs to be that way to cover costs.

The speedway alone should be going half way to winning the battle at bv but it seems that’s not enough.

Halifax Town is £20 to go in. They aren't even in the football league.

Comparatively, speedway isn't expensive. 

Speedway isn't necessarily dying. Word I got is that Isle of Wight's gate against Kent last Thursday was the biggest they have had under the present promotion during May. 

[Phil The Ace]

I've not seen one aces fan that said fricke SHOULDNT be excluded. 

 

Neither on here or at the stadium. 

[acef]

19 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Halifax Town is £20 to go in. They aren't even in the football league.

Comparatively, speedway isn't expensive. 

Speedway isn't necessarily dying. Word I got is that Isle of Wight's gate against Kent last Thursday was the biggest they have had under the present promotion during May. 

Value is decided by the consumer. If we are not selling enough tickets, then it’s too expensive whether it’s comparable or not. 

The price has to represent value and looking at the footfall, it seems it doesn’t. 

Imo if there is a demand for £10 tickets, for example, and we sold an extra 4/500 by doing so on a consistent basis, then £10 is the price point it should be. 

Unfortunately there is just too much cost in the sport today making it next to impossible to turn a profit 

[acef]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Fricke hadn’t passed Harris though. Passing is when Fricke back wheel is in front of Harris front wheel. But Fricke’s footrest (middle of his bike) went through the spokes of Harris front wheel. Fricke basically hoped Harris would back off but he didn’t. Fricke to blame and rightly excluded.

He was correctly excluded because he was the primary cause. I don’t dispute that.

My argument is that bomber was equally at fault for just carrying on regardless. Pretty much any other rider would have shut off there and had a word after the race if they felt it was out of line.

You see those moves Steve pretty much every week in the Polish league, but they back out carry on the race and sort out the detail after

 

[WestGorton1884]

Great advert for the sport, always knew this would be a close meeting,  Ipswich have  got real strength in depth

Having Max and KB in two of last three races proved vital .

 Regarding the Max / Bomber clash ,... Nothing malicious from Max who is anything but a dirty rider

But definitely the right decision to exclude him, 

Looks like a promising season in store for both teams 

 

[OveFundinFan]

6 minutes ago, WestGorton1884 said:

Great advert for the sport, always knew this would be a close meeting,  Ipswich have  got real strength in depth

Having Max and KB in two of last three races proved vital .

 Regarding the Max / Bomber clash ,... Nothing malicious from Max who is anything but a dirty rider

But definitely the right decision to exclude him, 

Looks like a promising season in store for both teams 

 

Not malicious, but certainly careless...... he should have known Harris was close, he had only just undertook him then went too wide. Spoilt his own score and that of Harris.

[WalterPlinge]

13 minutes ago, acef said:

if there is a demand for £10 tickets, for example, and we sold an extra 4/500 by doing so on a consistent basis, then £10 is the price point it should be. 

1,000 people @ £18 = £18,000

If they sold an extra 4/500 by offering £10 tickets  1,400/1,500   @  £10 =   £14,000 - £15,000

So no.  In your example,  £10 clearly isn't the price point it should be  

[hyderd]

2 hours ago, Gavan said:

So if your half a bike length up you can basically just shove the other rider into the fence because ' you are in front'

Max Fricke is by no means a dirty rider but that move wasnt good .....the commentary team pretty much said the same

He was half a bike length up and left Harris no room at all. Its not up to Harris to throttle off if he is only half a bike length down, he should have been able to ride up to the next corner in that straight line. 

I also cant understand how the race wasnt awarded either

Could have cost us a point maybe

Its all well and good saying that Bewley had a poor night and so did Wells , but on the plus side Worrall rode and scored really well. Also Ipswich reserves had a poor meeting to. Its all if buts and maybes.

All i know is that if we can keep this up then i dont fear anyone over 2 legs

what you say is mostly true, my only gripe is this, how many riders do you see using the boards to propel them into the next corner, Max was at the part of the track where this is often done, Max must of known CH was near him but maybe he thought he was not as close as he was and was using the boards to give him more speed into the corner, it's possible but only Max knows for sure. Thankfully both riders were able to just dust themselves down and get on with the meeting.The ref called it correct.

[hyderd]

5 minutes ago, WalterPlinge said:

1,000 people @ £18 = £18,000

If they sold an extra 4/500 by offering £10 tickets  1,400/1,500   @  £10 =   £14,000 - £15,000

So no.  In your example,  £10 clearly isn't the price point it should be  

At the end of the day the BSPA should not of let BT or any broadcaster call the shots,it should of been properly negotiated so the all clubs are not losing hand over fist every time the camera's are in town.

[Halifaxtiger]

29 minutes ago, acef said:

 

Value is decided by the consumer. If we are not selling enough tickets, then it’s too expensive whether it’s comparable or not. 

The price has to represent value and looking at the footfall, it seems it doesn’t. 

Imo if there is a demand for £10 tickets, for example, and we sold an extra 4/500 by doing so on a consistent basis, then £10 is the price point it should be. 

Unfortunately there is just too much cost in the sport today making it next to impossible to turn a profit 

Just because people aren't buying something doesn't necessarily mean it is too expensive. It can easily be a case of ignorance of what the price actually gets you. 

Belle Vue's gates are, apparently, around 1200. If half are in the grandstand and half in the south stand, that's income of £22,000. 1700  at £10 is £17,000. That's a £5,000 loss and to make £10 pay, they'd have to increase the gates by 1,000 a week.

There is a case for having reduced entry at TV meetings, but it is noticeable that clubs have dropped it. Clearly, the propaganda value of big TV attendances is not enough to overcome the losses incurred.

I'll admit I am biased but the comparison I gave is between one sport with near world class competitors while the other is semi professional and light years away from the top of their sport. Comparing the two, to me, makes speedway look cheap. 

As to turning a profit, apparently Eastbourne are doing very well - even their worst gate was 'break even'. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Halifaxtiger

[OveFundinFan]

I remember Sayfutdinov being trapped by Medinski in a similar situation to Fricke/Harris and look how it turned out for Emil. I dont think he been the same since.

[ouch]

We had a similar coming together in the same spot at the last Colts match. This time the rider behind was excluded so it’s swings and roundabouts with decisions like this. 

Glad in both cases everyone was ok. 

[foreverblue]

If ou deem it was the fault of Harris then you have total disregard for rider safety. Fricke's foot peg was in the front wheel of Harris so Fricke's bike was not in front at the time of impact, it is totally different to rider taking another rider's line to stop his move.

[topaz325]

4 hours ago, acef said:

Where in the rule book does it say he has to? It’s good sportsmanship, yes, but it’s not a ruling. The rider in front can put the bike wherever he chooses and max chose to run up to the boards as he made the pass.

On paper he was the primary cause of stoppage so had to go, but Chris was equally to blame for staying on the taps after he’d been passed. He should have throttled off and cut back in as max was clearly chasing the high line.

If Pedersen has made that move the BSF would go into melt down, not good from Fricke.

[TonyE]

On 6/4/2019 at 8:41 AM, Phil The Ace said:

A couple of 100, you do realise we have another stand on the far side where most ppl are most weeks. Everyone just looks at the grandstand. 

 

There was approx 500 in grandstand and about 600 or so in south stand. No where near a few 100. 

 

It was a poor crowd though 

I have no axe to grind - just saying how it comes over on tv. The cameras seem to do their best not to show the overall crowd with any close-up focused on the 'densely packed' areas when it is fairly obvious that there were whole sections with hardly anybody there at all.

Edited June 6, 2019 by TonyE