Midland Red Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 19 hours ago, pugwash said: Too much entertainment competition for speedway on saturdays and bank holidays. TV, pizza houses, cinemas etc. Of course, there's no TV, pizza houses, cinemas, etc on Mondays or Thursdays - "those who know best" obviously recognise this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: Not quite sure what standard of rider people think would be on display if more clubs rode on Saturdays. If the standard of rider was more equal, irrespective of the level, it would make for closer and more entertaining races 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Of course, there's no TV, pizza houses, cinemas, etc on Mondays or Thursdays - "those who know best" obviously recognise this No need to try and be a smart arse. mondays and thursdays are not 'night out' days for the majority of families. saturday is. just basing this on my siblings and entertainment patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, pugwash said: mondays and thursdays are not 'night out' days for the majority of families. saturday is. just basing this on my siblings and entertainment patterns. Nail right on head! Mondays and Thursdays are not 'night out' days, so why run Speedway on those nights? Run meetings on Saturday which IS a 'night out' day - or on Friday! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 Sadly the days of attending Saturday night speedway and hearing at your chosen meeting the results from the likes of Canterbury, Rayleigh, Berwick, Workington, Coventry, Bradford etc. is be a distant but pleasant part of the history of speedway. In the current climate it will not ever happen particularly as the obsession with league racing to the detriment of individual meetings and challenge matches means that the choice of race meetings is limited and the new talent will not get the opportunity that riders had previously with the second half of a meeting. Sad to say but today supporters do not want anything less than league racing and that is one of the reasons why the up and coming riders are taking so long to come through the ranks. You cannot turn back time but some lessons could be learnt from the past if the sport is to go forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 Recently the SoN ran at the NSS on a Saturday night to a full house.. The same competition, with the same riders, ran on a Monday or a Thursday, wouldn't have filled the stadium.. In Britain hardly any riders currently riding over here can put extra on the gate by their presence, so just run meetings on nights you can generate the most punters.. Put out two teams of similar ability levels, numbers per team dependent on supply of riders, with an aim to create an overspill of riders to prevent the need for guests, and take it from there.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 21 hours ago, Hawk127 said: Sadly the days of attending Saturday night speedway and hearing at your chosen meeting the results from the likes of Canterbury, Rayleigh, Berwick, Workington, Coventry, Bradford etc. is be a distant but pleasant part of the history of speedway. In the current climate it will not ever happen particularly as the obsession with league racing to the detriment of individual meetings and challenge matches means that the choice of race meetings is limited and the new talent will not get the opportunity that riders had previously with the second half of a meeting. Sad to say but today supporters do not want anything less than league racing and that is one of the reasons why the up and coming riders are taking so long to come through the ranks. You cannot turn back time but some lessons could be learnt from the past if the sport is to go forward. League racing has been the backbone of this sport since 1929. It would have struggled to survive without it. Most fans like to nail their masts to a colour, and wouldn't go if they had no teams to support. Individual meetings started to die off in the 1980's, Cardiff is only well attended because it's a prestigious one off event. Speedway, like dog racing is a sport from a bygone era, that is not fashionable anymore. People want a lot more than fifteen races and poor facilities for their money. You only have to look at the shenanigans at Poole and Swindon yesterday to realise the sport is knackered. It needs massive investment and professional people to revamp it, both of which are never going to happen. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 2 hours ago, cityrebel said: League racing has been the backbone of this sport since 1929. It would have struggled to survive without it. Most fans like to nail their masts to a colour, and wouldn't go if they had no teams to support. Individual meetings started to die off in the 1980's, Cardiff is only well attended because it's a prestigious one off event. Speedway, like dog racing is a sport from a bygone era, that is not fashionable anymore. People want a lot more than fifteen races and poor facilities for their money. You only have to look at the shenanigans at Poole and Swindon yesterday to realise the sport is knackered. It needs massive investment and professional people to revamp it, both of which are never going to happen. God, I hate you! You are so bloody negative - and so bloody accurate in your assessments... Funny, people would complain how "meaningless" second-halves were - and now everybody wants more than fifteen heats! I've said it before, but one of the things I loved (and I assume others did too) was the variety in speedway. Sure, league was the backbone, but look at the other formats. At Plough Lane we were spoiled, but as far as individual meetings we had the Daily Express Spring Classic, Internationale, NLRC, and Laurels (plus other occasional events). There were 4-Team Tournaments, Best Pairs, and Test Matches. The variety in track shapes and sizes always intrigued us. We had a "choice" of meetings and venues seven days a week. One Saturday I would go to Swindon, and the next I would go to Canterbury. One Sunday I would go to Mildenhall, and the next I would go to Rye. The highlight of away coach trips on a Saturday was meeting up with other supporters' coaches at Watford Gap! Sigh... Steve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 43 minutes ago, chunky said: God, I hate you! You are so bloody negative - and so bloody accurate in your assessments... Funny, people would complain how "meaningless" second-halves were - and now everybody wants more than fifteen heats! I've said it before, but one of the things I loved (and I assume others did too) was the variety in speedway. Sure, league was the backbone, but look at the other formats. At Plough Lane we were spoiled, but as far as individual meetings we had the Daily Express Spring Classic, Internationale, NLRC, and Laurels (plus other occasional events). There were 4-Team Tournaments, Best Pairs, and Test Matches. The variety in track shapes and sizes always intrigued us. We had a "choice" of meetings and venues seven days a week. One Saturday I would go to Swindon, and the next I would go to Canterbury. One Sunday I would go to Mildenhall, and the next I would go to Rye. The highlight of away coach trips on a Saturday was meeting up with other supporters' coaches at Watford Gap! Sigh... Steve I'm not always negative Steve, just realistic. I've been to sixteen meetings already this season, at nine different tracks. I'm far too old to change my ways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 1 hour ago, cityrebel said: I'm not always negative Steve, just realistic. I've been to sixteen meetings already this season, at nine different tracks. I'm far too old to change my ways! Hey, it wasn't meant as a criticism; as I said, you are 100% correct. Even though I can't go now, if I was still over there, I would. Even if I was just visiting, I would still try to get to different tracks. As you say, speedway isn't "cool" anymore, and even if the entertainment was better, and the facilities better, I'm not convinced that it would make a huge difference. Yes, that is very sad, but the saddest part is that I really don't know why, or what the answers are... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 On 5/27/2019 at 9:13 AM, Midland Red said: Nail right on head! Mondays and Thursdays are not 'night out' days, so why run Speedway on those nights? Run meetings on Saturday which IS a 'night out' day - or on Friday! The teams that run on Saturdays have hardly been getting big crowds . it's pretty clear that people these days do only other things on a Saturday night . I would go to watch Swindon on a Thursday but would not go on a Saturday .and there plenty who feel the same . Yet again it's just old speedway fans wanting to go back in time . that time has past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, chunky said: Hey, it wasn't meant as a criticism; as I said, you are 100% correct. Even though I can't go now, if I was still over there, I would. Even if I was just visiting, I would still try to get to different tracks. As you say, speedway isn't "cool" anymore, and even if the entertainment was better, and the facilities better, I'm not convinced that it would make a huge difference. Yes, that is very sad, but the saddest part is that I really don't know why, or what the answers are... Steve It's Malcolm Simmons' fault, apparently, posted on another thread (which is a bizarre statement to make to say the very least) although the reasons I believe lie much deeper and Martin Rogers' gives a very candid and constructive view/opinion in the latest edition of 'Backtrack' as regards to why speedway in this country has declined over the years. Edited May 29, 2019 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, steve roberts said: It's Malcolm Simmons' fault, apparently, made on another thread which is a bizarre statement to make to say the very least! It's the promoters fault that the sport is on its knees. They failed to invest when times were good and have failed to promote when times are bad. They are not capable of selling their product to the british public. Tinkering with the rules every year isn't going to bring the fans back. There is no solution that isn't going to cost money. A top PR man or a national advertising campaign would cost a fortune, with no guarantees of success. Preparing a decent track and putting on a slicker show would be a start, but most seem incapable of acheiving this essential task. With the Poles now bullying the FIM into submission, speedway in this country will fall further behind the pecking order, if that's possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 34 minutes ago, steve roberts said: It's Malcolm Simmons' fault, apparently, posted on another thread (which is a bizarre statement to make to say the very least) although the reasons I believe lie much deeper and Martin Rogers' gives a very candid and constructive view/opinion in the latest edition of 'Backtrack' as regards to why speedway in this country has declined over the years. Over reaction yet again. Nobody said it was his fault. He played a big part in the scandal that hit the newspapers back in the 80s. Even Phil Rising has stated the media didn't really want to touch speedway after that as a genuine sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, iris123 said: Over reaction yet again. Nobody said it was his fault. He played a big part in the scandal that hit the newspapers back in the 80s. Even Phil Rising has stated the media didn't really want to touch speedway after that as a genuine sport. Yes I agree that it was an over reaction that Simmo was greatly to blame and one of "Biggest Reasons" for the demise of speedway in this country. The so-called 'Scandal' was obviously one factor but as Martin Rogers' quoted crowds were not immediately affected during that period and it was an accumulation of events that has proved destructive over time. Personally I believe that the demise of "World of Sport" on ITV started the decline as speedway was no longer shown on mainstream TV although regional networks and the BBC dipped in and out over the next few years. I do recall a two page feature of the all-conquering "Cheetahs" team of 1986 (including Wiggy) appearing in a mainstream newspaper but generally speedway within the media was already declining (and it was never that good even during the 'glory years') and some would argue that was due to the emergence and later domination of the Danes and the fall of England's dominance during the seventies that proved a factor. It's a complex issue and one in which there is not one specific reason for the sport's decline but where there are many which have been well documented over the years and no doubt will continue to do so. Edited May 29, 2019 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, cityrebel said: Preparing a decent track and putting on a slicker show would be a start, but most seem incapable of acheiving this essential task. The BSPA have proved time and time again that they are incapable or unwilling to improve the product that people pay to see. Poor racing surfaces, not unexpected at a new track like Swindon but inexcusable at a long established track like Poole. What happened to track inspectors and do referees have no role in deciding if track conditions are safe or not? As for improving the show - laughable attempts at for example stopping gardening and tactical delays decided by team managers which extend the grading and tractor racing joys. Oddly suddenly great racing returned to the Peterborough track with hardly any between races grading. Hmmm. The leadership of the BSPA pay lip service ( if that ) to their customers and any business that does that will go extinct. As for the televised matches, this season they show the by now usual scene of a handful of elderly fans in an almost empty stadium and very boring follow the leader racing ( sorry motorcycle riding )in 80% of the heats. What a way to attract new customers! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, orion said: Yet again it's just old speedway fans wanting to go back in time . that time has past Problem is - very few, if any, of the "modern initiatives" seem to have succeeded (most have failed), therefore those that recall better times often feel that a return to what worked then would be worth a try Edited May 29, 2019 by Midland Red 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 On 5/25/2019 at 9:13 PM, Midland Red said: No, of course I hadn't forgotten Just feel the best of British Speedway should be raced on spectator-friendly nights, ie Friday and Saturday Monday nights continue to appear so very spectator-unfriendly Good to see the programme for Bank Holiday Monday, but that's standard fare Obviously those that know best consider it better for clubs to be forced to move away from their normal nights No wonder attendances continue to fall Only Saturday night isn't the most spectator friendly any more. For those who watch speedway there is live GP on ten of those Saturdays. Two more are taken up by the Speedway of Nations. Two weeks ago the BBC screened the FA Cup Final, this weekend pubs will be full of people watching the Champions League final, the Cricket World Cup will have live games on a Saturday, Wimbledon tennis. While I support a Saturday night club it faces all these alternatives and it is affecting crowds. We're not the only game in town on a summer Saturday any more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 On 5/26/2019 at 6:57 PM, steve roberts said: Yes I remember attending Oxford on the Friday, Swindon or Coventry on Saturday and Mondays a visit to Reading (Bank Holidays Home & Away)...great days! I used to do Oxford, Swindon & Reading regularly too. The funny thing is, if it was the same now I wouldn't be able to afford it, which maybe says something about admission costs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 Just now, Grachan said: I used to do Oxford, Swindon & Reading regularly too. The funny thing is, if it was the same now I wouldn't be able to afford it, which maybe says something about admission costs. We even used to pop down to Arlington on a Sunday occasionally. During the seventies it was White City on the Wednesday, Oxford Thursdays and Saturdays a visit to Swindon. Certainly couldn't entertain that regime now what with admissions and petrol costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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