dj350z Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Baldyman said: I think some just want to see nothing but constant passing,,, very rare in speedway,,,, now if you do want to see that though,,, watch moto3 Dead right and there is no dirt on the track there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Blupanther said: Move it out to the stock car track But that's about it,,, and that's never going to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89buttons Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, Baldyman said: I think some just want to see nothing but constant passing,,, very rare in speedway,,,, now if you do want to see that though,,, watch moto3 So many seem to get hung up on passing - maybe, just maybe those that make starts are the slightly better riders too! Close racing can be just as good to watch without a pass! moto3 is always good entertainment, them boys are all out warfare! Throw the bikes at each other from every which way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris116 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Blupanther said: Move it out to the stock car track That would ruin one of the best Hot Rod tracks in the country but putting the tarmac onto the current speedway track would make a much better Stock Car track as there is too much space for good stock car racing on the current tarmac oval. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, 89buttons said: how would this counter the risk and reward element?? darcy ward was quoted as saying recently at the time of his career ending he was earning 3 x as much in sweden and 7 x as much in poland as he was in uk, capping the uk earnings doesn't affect how they're getting in poland Remember seeing an interview Q and A with one GP rider around 2011/12 saying he got "ten times in Poland" what he earned over here... He then said he got £1500 a night on average over here... I know since then that riders salaries in Poland have been reduced somewhat (as many didn't actually get what was on the table in the first place), however still a huge difference in salaries between GB and Poland so you can understand a different approach, (if there actually is one).. Maybe not using riders who ride in Poland and Sweden is the answer to improve the closeness of the racing? Give 'lesser riders' better incentive related salary packages using the money they currently pay to riders who travel around Europe.. As long as they are available 100% of the time when the club dictates they need to be... Edited May 22, 2019 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 In all honesty the standard of riders in the Prem is much closer than it has been in many previous years. If you have riders of closer averages then the racing has a better chance of being closer. Next level down in the champs there are 10 point riders and 2 point riders on the same track at the same time, that is never going to produce close racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Baldyman said: How would you suggest Ipswich improve their track? Take some of the dirt off it... Ironic when so many tracks are so slick, Buster seems to make all his very grippy.. Tracks prepared like Ippo on Monday invariably end up with a 'fast race around the boards procession' with all riders keeping, in the main, equal distance from each other, (presume to give themselves time to avoid the guy in front should he have problems riding though the 'deep stuff')... Deep dirt to ride in, but too deep to race in... The NSS, widely considered to be a great race track runs much better 'slicker than deep', and to be honest when you watch old footage of Hyde Rd the inside third of the track was 'slick' with the outside two thirds covered in 'just enough' dirt, not lots of it.. The shape of the bends lends so much to the racing, and as has been said the "fly down the straight/lock up almost to a standstill/fire off down the next straight/lock up almost to a standstill/rinse and repeat", type track simply isn't conducive to deliver great Speedway.. Even more so when 'deep', as riders will always be cautious as to how their bikes will react when it hits the deep stuff on a tight bend... And if they are thinking about that, they cannot be thinking about racing as well.. And who can blame them? Edited May 22, 2019 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 It's not normally that deep,,, if anything it's much slicker and a bit drier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 7 hours ago, 89buttons said: imo its the bikes are the problem these days, they're revving so high with so much power it makes them so unpredictable on grippy surfaces its so hard to control, often it doesn't matter how good your throttle control is if you're turning tight and get a handful of grip you're soon just a passenger! watching jake allen so far this season his throttle and overall bike control imo is top notch - he's similar in style to rory schlein in that neither ever look like they're fighting the bike, always smooth and controlled however hard they're racing - yet exactly what I've explained above happened to jake last week on the top turn at foxhall. the bikes are far more suited to big wide open smooth and slick tracks where its all about building speed and momentum rather than racing down a straight and then standing the bike up turning tight and scrubbing the speed off like in england - problem with slick tracks love here is the corners/tracks aren't big enough that the riders can maintain speed through the bends and build the momentum - belle vue is....and what do you know its the best track in the country! the surviving english tracks aren't really fit for purpose for the modern machinery - the bikes have changed massively in past 10-20 years yet the tracks haven't moved with them to be more suited, and the bikes haven't been adapted or aren't that well adapted to english tracks.  You know! You need to tell most of the rest of them on here as most can't see it or are in denial. The only part I slightly disagree with is the last bit with the bikes not being adapted. The majority of tracks in this country have always been sub-optimal in terms of size, shape, space, etc. It is just even more apparent these days, with the bikes being even less forgiving around a typical tight, narrow British track. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 5 hours ago, AntiqueSteve said: ...I must have been watching a different match...maybe it does not show on telly, but there was some great racing ! Been to Stoke many times, can't say I was that impressed, no comparison ! I've acknowledged this issues at Stoke many times, however an "averagely" prepared Loomer Rd would easily match what was served up at Ipswich the other night. Secondly, I've commented many times on different threads about various tracks, there is always someone who wants to make a comparison with Stoke, well done you get the prize this time! Stoke, Ipswich and countless others are a long way from being the best tracks in the country, that is Belle Vue, by far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriors Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 21 hours ago, Stoke Potter said: At least 2/3 of the heats last night were boring processional rubbish. Barely 5 heats worthy of being called a race. Ipswich another on the long list of tracks that need improvement... Yes, we know, it can't be done for this, that, or the other reason and the racing is usually amazing anyway. Why doesn't anybody go to Speedway? The answer was on tele last night. Well unfortunately it will not get better simply because the muck that's put down instead a proper shale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriors Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Aces51 said: We see the same riders at the NSS as at every other PL track and yet they give 100%, they try different lines and racing is often fast and close. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that the problem doesn't lie with the riders but with the tracks. Â Correct bell Vue has very good racing mainly down to shape of track but as you say more importantly bell Vue use proper shale . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriors Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Baldyman said: How would you suggest Ipswich improve their track? Use proper shale would go along way the stuff on there now is nothing more than muck which doesn't allow the back wheel to spin the way it should, in stead the bike is driving all the time which makes them unpredictable and harder to control, I would take a guess that now they use muck on the track I bet there one tooth less on the back than what they used to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted May 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, mikebv said: Take some of the dirt off it... Ironic when so many tracks are so slick, Buster seems to make all his very grippy.. Tracks prepared like Ippo on Monday invariably end up with a 'fast race around the boards procession' with all riders keeping, in the main, equal distance from each other, (presume to give themselves time to avoid the guy in front should he have problems riding though the 'deep stuff')... Deep dirt to ride in, but too deep to race in... The NSS, widely considered to be a great race track runs much better 'slicker than deep', and to be honest when you watch old footage of Hyde Rd the inside third of the track was 'slick' with the outside two thirds covered in 'just enough' dirt, not lots of it.. The shape of the bends lends so much to the racing, and as has been said the "fly down the straight/lock up almost to a standstill/fire off down the next straight/lock up almost to a standstill/rinse and repeat", type track simply isn't conducive to deliver great Speedway.. Even more so when 'deep', as riders will always be cautious as to how their bikes will react when it hits the deep stuff on a tight bend... And if they are thinking about that, they cannot be thinking about racing as well.. And who can blame them? Baldyman’s right there’s not usually that much dirt on the track as there was Monday. Whether the overnight rain played a part in that I’ve no idea. Ipswich have just uploaded another race from the Poole meeting, this is much more consistent with how the track is prepared although it’s slickened off here as it’s towards the end of the meeting On another note, why does everyone not know who Heeps is anymore? He turned in to Bellego on Monday and he’s turned in to Jake Allen here! Poor Cam Edited May 22, 2019 by Arch Stanton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriors Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Proves the point when it was damp and grippy riders struggled and fell, but later when track dried and slickend off riders have more confidence in the track and race harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Warriors said: Use proper shale would go along way the stuff on there now is nothing more than muck which doesn't allow the back wheel to spin the way it should, in stead the bike is driving all the time which makes them unpredictable and harder to control, I would take a guess that now they use muck on the track I bet there one tooth less on the back than what they used to be. There's a lot said about the shale these days. It's the wrong type, you can't get the same stuff as the good old days, or because there's no oil in it from the bikes, etc. But putting on perfect shale won't turn Ipswich in to Belle Vue, still too small, narrow, wrong shape, etc. What didn't help on Monday was the slick patch entering the bends about 1/3 away from the kerb, caused 2 falls if I remember right and no doubt caused problems for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icicle Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) I note that Harris is doing well for Somerset in CL--seems to have "recovered from injury" (Hmm).... Edited May 22, 2019 by Icicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Harris can't ride Foxhall,, never could and never will do.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwright71 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, 89buttons said: imo its the bikes are the problem these days, they're revving so high with so much power it makes them so unpredictable on grippy surfaces its so hard to control, often it doesn't matter how good your throttle control is if you're turning tight and get a handful of grip you're soon just a passenger! watching jake allen so far this season his throttle and overall bike control imo is top notch - he's similar in style to rory schlein in that neither ever look like they're fighting the bike, always smooth and controlled however hard they're racing - yet exactly what I've explained above happened to jake last week on the top turn at foxhall. the bikes are far more suited to big wide open smooth and slick tracks where its all about building speed and momentum rather than racing down a straight and then standing the bike up turning tight and scrubbing the speed off like in england - problem with slick tracks love here is the corners/tracks aren't big enough that the riders can maintain speed through the bends and build the momentum - belle vue is....and what do you know its the best track in the country! the surviving english tracks aren't really fit for purpose for the modern machinery - the bikes have changed massively in past 10-20 years yet the tracks haven't moved with them to be more suited, and the bikes haven't been adapted or aren't that well adapted to english tracks.  Spot on post, since new silencers were introduced in 2010 a lot of tracks in the UK are not suited to todays machines. As you say todays bikes are suited to big wide, fast , throttle open tracks, any tracks where you have to shut off and rely on throttle control , the quality of speedway has been severely effected. Add to this the shape, lack of banking and poor shale and you have an unwanted cocktail. Even Terry Russel eluded to the point when on BT last week. I know speedway has a dedicated band of devotees who like to protect the sport from any criticism but anybody independent watching the first 2 live matches on TV can see the problem. Regardless of what Rob Godfrey and Jon Cook tell us " the product is not better than ever " its significantly worse than it was. If BT sport is the window to advertise to the rest of the country its no surprise the terraces are empty. Interesting in the Speedway Star last week there was an analogy between Formula 1 and speedway. Similar to speedway the F1 devotees think they have a good product when in truth you are watching a boring procession. Both also have commentators that repeatedly try to sex it up, insulting the intelligence of those who know the sport  What can be done, nothing, there is no money ,the best riders are not coming back, a TV deal worth peanuts, no major sponsorship and falling crowds. As for changing the bikes , no chance while the current bosses at the F.IM are in charge. Very Sad Edited May 22, 2019 by iwright71 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Not sure who said it but it was said (someone educate me) something about people using motocross engines I think 450cc in speedway chassis etc. Big manufacturers who have no interest in speedway right now, so perhaps speedway as it is in the UK should die a death and out of the flames something completely new but on the basis of speedway could be born and be successful. I honestly cant see any other way as people running it now have killed it, lack of riders, doubling up, fixed race nights, poor crowds, poor tracks, poor facilities  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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