stevebrum Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said: At least 2/3 of the heats last night were boring processional rubbish. Barely 5 heats worthy of being called a race. Ipswich another on the long list of tracks that need improvement... Yes, we know, it can't be done for this, that, or the other reason and the racing is usually amazing anyway. Why doesn't anybody go to Speedway? The answer was on tele last night. They made a hell of a lot of changes to Ipswich in the winter? Have you been hibernating? The general feedback from fans is that attendance is up and racing improved but like at Swindon BT meeting none of that was reflected to the watching viewer. Lots of Ipswich fans decided to stay at home because of no price reduction and having had a meeting on Thursday. its the promotions (and BT) that are missing a trick. All TV meetings should be 10 or 12 pound to get a crowd in and partially funded by BT. Swindon offered reduction at their BT match and had a good crowd, that requires for some thought from those who promote the sport. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 5 hours ago, BWitcher said: Stop rambling on. You made a stupid comment. Accept it, move on and stop trying to defend it. As I said, you will never, EVER have been to a meeting where it was done and dusted in 60 mins. I doubt you've been to one done in 70 either. I have made no reference to what my 'preference' is, just pointed out the ridiculousness of your statement. Probably not, a meeting within 60 minutes may never happen, but have had a few meetings in and around the 70ish mark though few and far between. Let me know where you sit at foxhall I'll make sure I come and give you a gentle pat on the back one Thursday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 I went to a world championship qualifying round at Stoke once where the ref was the legendary Frank Ebdon. Start 7:30, 20 heats, done by 9:00, in the pub by 9:20. Brilliant ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris116 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Beowulf said: I went to a world championship qualifying round at Stoke once where the ref was the legendary Frank Ebdon. Start 7:30, 20 heats, done by 9:00, in the pub by 9:20. Brilliant ! Frank was the best referee. One evening at Arena Essex it was forcast to rain about an hour after start time. Dot on start time as the announcer said that there would be no parade and the first heat would be coming on track the two minute warning sounded. As the 4th place rider got half way around the bend after finishing at the end of each race the two minute warning was sounded for the next race. A couple of fallers slowed things down a bit but we saw 15 races on a dry track and the rain soaked the crowd as they made their way to the car park after the quickest meeting I have ever attended. Just wish all referees would get through meetings as quickly as Frank did. Edited May 21, 2019 by Chris116 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Guess it depends what you are brought up on. Small track Speedway just doesn’t do it for me, although it’s often incident packed. Masters looked so tentative, dare not move off the line. Heeps (or is that Bellego) excellent and showed it can be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 That is the saddest part is that Heeps amazing, from the back efforts, showed that racing is possible if riders are prepared to have a go and genuinely try to race. There does seem to be a prevalent attitude on track that half way round, on the first lap, are the positions that the vast majority of riders will settle for, knowing they will have another chance to gate in their next race. Even riders as experienced as Schlein decided that when stuck at the back knowing that they can gate or fight their way through within 100 metres next time out, 75% of the time. Let's have 50 one lap races with grading only every ten races, which may be more exciting overall. And of course, concrete starting grids which permit no gardening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Spot on,,, it's very rare to see a rider trying inside and outside lines to catch or pass the rider in front of them,,, they nearly all opt for the 2 metre to mid track approach,,, exactly the same as who is in front of them, the Gp are a little different though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted May 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Not sure Rory has ever been known for his racing. Heeps is a racer, and the lines he tries like we saw on Monday, are the exact same lines you’d expect “bomber” to be using. Alas we’ve seen nothing of the sort from Harris. He’s been hugely disappointing so far not just because of his points scored, but for the entertainment value you’d expect from him. Still time to see that of course and let’s hope we see it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Baldyman said: Spot on,,, it's very rare to see a rider trying inside and outside lines to catch or pass the rider in front of them,,, they nearly all opt for the 2 metre to mid track approach,,, exactly the same as who is in front of them, the Gp are a little different though Racing in Poland is different as well... I can only think it's down to the old 'risk v reward' equation... Would you take the same risk to earn £100 more that you would take to earn £1000 more? Also, much less chance of losing your job in Britain, (and even if you do you will invariably have another one within hours), than in Poland, which would also strongly focus the mind I would think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Jason Doyle said recently that the Foxhall track made Kings Lynn look slick.... that's part of the problem. The riders are only setup for slick, blue groove type of surfaces. Throttle like a switch, on or off. Give them a track with some grip on which requires throttle control and they are caught out. Doesnt explain Bomber though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Introduce a points cap across the league so every rider in every race races for the same points money. Figures just as an example Race Win - £250 2nd - £100 3rd - £50 4th - £0 Have some form of standard appearance money in case a rider hits 0,0,0 to cover costs But, riders should be getting enough personal sponsorship to cover their season costs then what is earned on track is their living. Think UK is easy money for most, well those who double up or down Everyone connected to the sport is taking the maximum from it in a negative way promoters, riders et c. It's just the fans that miss out completely 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 We see the same riders at the NSS as at every other PL track and yet they give 100%, they try different lines and racing is often fast and close. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that the problem doesn't lie with the riders but with the tracks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89buttons Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 minute ago, 2ndbendbeerhut said: Jason Doyle said recently that the Foxhall track made Kings Lynn look slick.... that's part of the problem. The riders are only setup for slick, blue groove type of surfaces. Throttle like a switch, on or off. Give them a track with some grip on which requires throttle control and they are caught out. Doesnt explain Bomber though..... imo its the bikes are the problem these days, they're revving so high with so much power it makes them so unpredictable on grippy surfaces its so hard to control, often it doesn't matter how good your throttle control is if you're turning tight and get a handful of grip you're soon just a passenger! watching jake allen so far this season his throttle and overall bike control imo is top notch - he's similar in style to rory schlein in that neither ever look like they're fighting the bike, always smooth and controlled however hard they're racing - yet exactly what I've explained above happened to jake last week on the top turn at foxhall. the bikes are far more suited to big wide open smooth and slick tracks where its all about building speed and momentum rather than racing down a straight and then standing the bike up turning tight and scrubbing the speed off like in england - problem with slick tracks love here is the corners/tracks aren't big enough that the riders can maintain speed through the bends and build the momentum - belle vue is....and what do you know its the best track in the country! the surviving english tracks aren't really fit for purpose for the modern machinery - the bikes have changed massively in past 10-20 years yet the tracks haven't moved with them to be more suited, and the bikes haven't been adapted or aren't that well adapted to english tracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89buttons Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said: Introduce a points cap across the league so every rider in every race races for the same points money. Figures just as an example Race Win - £250 2nd - £100 3rd - £50 4th - £0 Have some form of standard appearance money in case a rider hits 0,0,0 to cover costs But, riders should be getting enough personal sponsorship to cover their season costs then what is earned on track is their living. Think UK is easy money for most, well those who double up or down Everyone connected to the sport is taking the maximum from it in a negative way promoters, riders et c. It's just the fans that miss out completely how would this counter the risk and reward element?? darcy ward was quoted as saying recently at the time of his career ending he was earning 3 x as much in sweden and 7 x as much in poland as he was in uk, capping the uk earnings doesn't affect how they're getting in poland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, 89buttons said: imo its the bikes are the problem these days, they're revving so high with so much power it makes them so unpredictable on grippy surfaces its so hard to control, often it doesn't matter how good your throttle control is if you're turning tight and get a handful of grip you're soon just a passenger! watching jake allen so far this season his throttle and overall bike control imo is top notch - he's similar in style to rory schlein in that neither ever look like they're fighting the bike, always smooth and controlled however hard they're racing - yet exactly what I've explained above happened to jake last week on the top turn at foxhall. the bikes are far more suited to big wide open smooth and slick tracks where its all about building speed and momentum rather than racing down a straight and then standing the bike up turning tight and scrubbing the speed off like in england - problem with slick tracks love here is the corners/tracks aren't big enough that the riders can maintain speed through the bends and build the momentum - belle vue is....and what do you know its the best track in the country! the surviving english tracks aren't really fit for purpose for the modern machinery - the bikes have changed massively in past 10-20 years yet the tracks haven't moved with them to be more suited, and the bikes haven't been adapted or aren't that well adapted to english tracks. The engines used now are short stroke engines,, because of this there isn't as much torque in them, so when they hit a bit of grip the wheel basically stops spinning on the dirt,,, thus instant wheelie or thrown forward like they are shutting off,, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 54 minutes ago, 89buttons said: how would this counter the risk and reward element?? darcy ward was quoted as saying recently at the time of his career ending he was earning 3 x as much in sweden and 7 x as much in poland as he was in uk, capping the uk earnings doesn't affect how they're getting in poland It doesn't solve it no, but if riders are not in a way willing to risk because the reward is not enough then take the reward away. Its absolutely spot on why would some riders or most risk a pass if they know they may gate and win in their other 3 heats or why risk a pass knowing that they have 4 rides at least with their other British team Riders are also part of the problem though a smaller % they can moan and say they get 7 x the amount in Poland but if the UK really was so poor in terms of what riders get out of it then they wouldn't ride here. If riders think the UK pay is so poor then I suggest they do what my father did, end of 1992 the BSPA wanted to remove the bonus points paid to riders so in essence to earn more riders would be racing their team mates. So he took a stance and said no he won't ride due to this, his team mates did the same only to fall back into teams over the latter part of the winter, my old man didn't out of principal and then just retired from the sport altogether though never officially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiqueSteve Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 15 hours ago, Stoke Potter said: At least 2/3 of the heats last night were boring processional rubbish. Barely 5 heats worthy of being called a race. Ipswich another on the long list of tracks that need improvement... Yes, we know, it can't be done for this, that, or the other reason and the racing is usually amazing anyway. Why doesn't anybody go to Speedway? The answer was on tele last night. ...I must have been watching a different match...maybe it does not show on telly, but there was some great racing ! Been to Stoke many times, can't say I was that impressed, no comparison ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 I think some just want to see nothing but constant passing,,, very rare in speedway,,,, now if you do want to see that though,,, watch moto3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 15 hours ago, Stoke Potter said: At least 2/3 of the heats last night were boring processional rubbish. Barely 5 heats worthy of being called a race. Ipswich another on the long list of tracks that need improvement... Yes, we know, it can't be done for this, that, or the other reason and the racing is usually amazing anyway. Why doesn't anybody go to Speedway? The answer was on tele last night. How would you suggest Ipswich improve their track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Baldyman said: How would you suggest Ipswich improve their track? Move it out to the stock car track 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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