Ivan Mauger. Belle Vue. 1969/72

[Sidney the robin]

I was going through some of my programmes and speedway stars god how good was Ivan from 1969/72.?? for me they were his peak years. I went through all of Ivan's maximums and paid maximums in that period ( BL fixtures only) and the stats are unbelievable.I think Ove, Briggo, Ole all had oustanding records but if i hazarded a guess Hans Nielsen would come the  closest to Ivan for maximums in his peak Oxford racing years.IVAN'S stats  B.L fixtures only. ) 1969-  21.maximums- 3- paid.     1970- 17.maximums- 2-paid.      1971- 17.maximums-3-paid.       1972- 16.maximums-4paid.    We all know what a great rider Ivan was i just wish i had of seen him at Hyde Rd in this period but luckily i got to see him ride quite alot LEGEND.

[steve roberts]

The greatest rider there is no doubt Sid. I wish that I had seen more of him but in those days when teams generally only visited once a year you took what opportunities you could and I remember we travelled to Reading's final meeting of 1972 just to watch the great man. I got to see him perhaps three or four times a year thereafter and it was always a pleasure...even to boo him!

[Aceslider]

Absolute sporting legend!!

I will never ever forget his time up at Newcastle racing in a Diamonds race jacket. His battles against Ivor Brown and Charlie Monk were momentous and always full of drama putting it mildly. He really was a true star in every sense of the word.

The only time we ever got faintly worried about him would be the pre race announcement (.....and Mauger's coming out on the track spare) which did happen from time to time even though he was absolutely meticulous about his bikes!

 

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

The greatest rider there is no doubt Sid. I wish that I had seen more of him but in those days when teams generally only visited once a year you took what opportunities you could and I remember we travelled to Reading's final meeting of 1972 just to watch the great man. I got to see him perhaps three or four times a year thereafter and it was always a pleasure...even to boo him!

He got booed at the abbey Steve on a regular basis but i am sure the great man took it as a compliment and took it in his stride.Looking back to that 1970 season, a miracle happened at Wimbledon Ivan had two 5.1s against him by the  Hedge/ Tebby and Moore/Maidment  partnerships unheard of.Also my recollection of Ivan riding for Exeter was he was awesome for them to at that time you could see he had took the sport to a more professional level.He turned up with a superb van,  gleaming leathers and immaculate aquipment so proud that i see him ride a real pleasure.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[Chadster]

Saw a Belle Vue v Sheffield KO Cup tie in 1969 and Bengt Larsson beat the great man from the back and Arnie Haley did the same in the second half in the Silver Sash match race. That didn't happen very often!

[Tracy Bird]

Remember Geoff mudge passing the great man in a world championship qr at Poole in 1969 and Reidar eide and John langfield getting a 5-1 over him in 1971 , apart from these he was virtually unbeatable at Poole,even Simmons at his best always got beaten,  he broke the track record in 1975 with Simmons up his exhaust pipe,it wasn't,t till his latter hull days that he became beatable.

[The Third Man]

44 minutes ago, Chadster said:

Saw a Belle Vue v Sheffield KO Cup tie in 1969 and Bengt Larsson beat the great man from the back and Arnie Haley did the same in the second half in the Silver Sash match race. That didn't happen very often!

Great night with Sheffield winning as well

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Tracy Bird said:

Remember Geoff mudge passing the great man in a world championship qr at Poole in 1969 and Reidar eide and John langfield getting a 5-1 over him in 1971 , apart from these he was virtually unbeatable at Poole,even Simmons at his best always got beaten,  he broke the track record in 1975 with Simmons up his exhaust pipe,it wasn't,t till his latter hull days that he became beatable.

Remember it well as I was there whilst on holiday in the area.

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Chadster said:

Saw a Belle Vue v Sheffield KO Cup tie in 1969 and Bengt Larsson beat the great man from the back and Arnie Haley did the same in the second half in the Silver Sash match race. That didn't happen very often!

Remember seeing some real old 'ding dongs' during some second half finals...great days and memories!

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, Chadster said:

Saw a Belle Vue v Sheffield KO Cup tie in 1969 and Bengt Larsson beat the great man from the back and Arnie Haley did the same in the second half in the Silver Sash match race. That didn't happen very often!

 

2 hours ago, Chadster said:

Saw a Belle Vue v Sheffield KO Cup tie in 1969 and Bengt Larsson beat the great man from the back and Arnie Haley did the same in the second half in the Silver Sash match race. That didn't happen very often!

Totally right i think Bob Paulson beat Ivan in heat 1 for Sheffield at Hyde Rd  and Geoff Mudge beat him home/away not easy to do.

[steve roberts]

I remember an altercation with Ivan and Malcolm Ballard at Cowley (1973) over a starting offence?

Edited May 17, 2019 by steve roberts

[bruno]

Didn't Ivan have a fantastic league average in 1975 for Exeter? Or is my memory playing tricks

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, bruno said:

Didn't Ivan have a fantastic league average in 1975 for Exeter? Or is my memory playing tricks

I recall that he went on a crash diet that year and his league form was superlative.

[E I Addio]

On 5/16/2019 at 5:18 AM, Sidney the robin said:

I was going through some of my programmes and speedway stars god how good was Ivan from 1969/72.?? for me they were his peak years. I went through all of Ivan's maximums and paid maximums in that period ( BL fixtures only) and the stats are unbelievable.I think Ove, Briggo, Ole all had oustanding records but if i hazarded a guess Hans Nielsen would come the  closest to Ivan for maximums in his peak Oxford racing years.IVAN'S stats  B.L fixtures only. ) 1969-  21.maximums- 3- paid.     1970- 17.maximums- 2-paid.      1971- 17.maximums-3-paid.       1972- 16.maximums-4paid.    We all know what a great rider Ivan was i just wish i had of seen him at Hyde Rd in this period but luckily i got to see him ride quite alot LEGEND.

I think that you are right about Ivan’s extraordinary dominance in those years Sid, but the thing that always intrigues me is what if Ivan had been born 5 years earlier or the “Big Five “ Of Ove , Briggs, Moore , Craven and Knutson had been born 5 years later.

The thing is when Fundin, Briggs , Craven, Moore  , and later Knutson were at there peaks they always had each other to have to beat.. In the years you mention Fundin Craven and Knutson were no longer around , Moore was just coming back from a six year retirement and both he and Briggo were in their mid to later thirties and just starting to be past their best . Ivan though, in those years was in the age range 29- 33 , just about the point when most speedway riders were at the peak of their powers. 

Its all speculation of course, but I don’t think Ivan would have been as dominant if he had to deal with the other 5 at their peaks on a regular basis.  Good though Olsen was, I don’t think he was in the same class as Fundin etc.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by E I Addio

[chunky]

4 hours ago, E I Addio said:

I think that you are right about Ivan’s extraordinary dominance in those years Sid, but the thing that always intrigues me is what if Ivan had been born 5 years earlier or the “Big Five “ Of Ove , Briggs, Moore , Craven and Knutson had been born 5 years later.

The thing is when Fundin, Briggs , Craven, Moore  , and later Knutson were at there peaks they always had each other to have to beat.. In the years you mention Fundin Craven and Knutson were no longer around , Moore was just coming back from a six year retirement and both he and Briggo were in their mid to later thirties and just starting to be past their best . Ivan though, in those years was in the age range 29- 33 , just about the point when most speedway riders were at the peak of their powers. 

Its all speculation of course, but I don’t think Ivan would have been as dominant if he had to deal with the other 5 at their peaks on a regular basis.  Good though Olsen was, I don’t think he was in the same class as Fundin etc.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Stop talking sense; anyone (on the BSF, anyway) will tell you how EVERYONE was world-class back then...

Steve

[steve roberts]

4 hours ago, E I Addio said:

I think that you are right about Ivan’s extraordinary dominance in those years Sid, but the thing that always intrigues me is what if Ivan had been born 5 years earlier or the “Big Five “ Of Ove , Briggs, Moore , Craven and Knutson had been born 5 years later.

The thing is when Fundin, Briggs , Craven, Moore  , and later Knutson were at there peaks they always had each other to have to beat.. In the years you mention Fundin Craven and Knutson were no longer around , Moore was just coming back from a six year retirement and both he and Briggo were in their mid to later thirties and just starting to be past their best . Ivan though, in those years was in the age range 29- 33 , just about the point when most speedway riders were at the peak of their powers. 

Its all speculation of course, but I don’t think Ivan would have been as dominant if he had to deal with the other 5 at their peaks on a regular basis.  Good though Olsen was, I don’t think he was in the same class as Fundin etc.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

I'm just reading Jackie Stewart's autobiography "Winning Is Not Enough" and having read Ivan's book "Will To Win" there were great similarities as regards their approach to their given sport/life and therefore achievements. Personally I think Ivan would have been succesful whatever the era as he was deep thinking and was always looking at ways of bettering himself whether it was mechanically or state of mind and Jackie had the same mentality.

[chunky]

22 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I'm just reading Jackie Stewart's autobiography "Winning Is Not Enough" and having read Ivan's book "Will To Win" there were great similarities as regards their approach to their given sport/life and therefore achievements. Personally I think Ivan would have been succesful whatever the era as he was deep thinking and was always looking at ways of bettering himself whether it was mechanically or state of mind and Jackie had the same mentality.

We've said it before, but the top riders from a particular era would have been top riders in ANY era. That approach to sport/life would apply to virtually every true great in any sport.

The key to it is not wanting to be better than everybody else, but to be the best that you can be. It doesn't matter if you are already the best - you can be better...

Of course, not everybody can/does become THE best (you can't control how good others become), but the important thing is that the desire is there. Particularly these days, too many individuals (in all sports) are cocky and complacent, and think they are "it", and think they don't have to apply themselves. If you don't want to put in the effort, that's fine, but don't whine when somebody comes along and knocks you off your pedestal...

Steve

[Sidney the robin]

6 hours ago, E I Addio said:

I think that you are right about Ivan’s extraordinary dominance in those years Sid, but the thing that always intrigues me is what if Ivan had been born 5 years earlier or the “Big Five “ Of Ove , Briggs, Moore , Craven and Knutson had been born 5 years later.

The thing is when Fundin, Briggs , Craven, Moore  , and later Knutson were at there peaks they always had each other to have to beat.. In the years you mention Fundin Craven and Knutson were no longer around , Moore was just coming back from a six year retirement and both he and Briggo were in their mid to later thirties and just starting to be past their best . Ivan though, in those years was in the age range 29- 33 , just about the point when most speedway riders were at the peak of their powers. 

Its all speculation of course, but I don’t think Ivan would have been as dominant if he had to deal with the other 5 at their peaks on a regular basis.  Good though Olsen was, I don’t think he was in the same class as Fundin etc.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Yes that top five Addio was outstandingI i really believe Bjorn gets forgotten he scared all of those other greats to death.Bjorn retired prematurely Ronnie for me was a 1950s man who after his gap from British racing comeback great Ron was a real star.Olsen is a rider i have always admired he won three title's the same as Nicki but for me was in a different league that era was tough.1973/78 Mauger, Olsen,Collins, Michanek, Lee, Jansson( his time was coming), Crump( on the Streety conversion were the top riders.In that respect the GP series now is the same six /eight who are the best with others on there day capable of having there day.The top five you mentioned have to be one of the best generation's we have had Craven aged 29 .killed approaching his peak   Moore had six years off Knutsson retired in a way Speedway was robbed a real shame as all five were legend's.

[E I Addio]

39 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Yes that top five Addio was outstandingI i really believe Bjorn gets forgotten he scared all of those other greats to death.Bjorn retired prematurely Ronnie for me was a 1950s man who after his gap from British racing comeback great Ron was a real star.Olsen is a rider i have always admired he won three title's the same as Nicki but for me was in a different league that era was tough.1973/78 Mauger, Olsen,Collins, Michanek, Lee, Jansson( his time was coming), Crump( on the Streety conversion were the top riders.In that respect the GP series now is the same six /eight who are the best with others on there day capable of having there day.The top five you mentioned have to be one of the best generation's we have had Craven aged 29 .killed approaching his peak   Moore had six years off Knutsson retired in a way Speedway was robbed a real shame as all five were legend's.

A lot of respected speedway historians say that Ronnie Moore was the most naturally gifted man ever to sit on a s speedway bike. I am not in a position to judge, as I only saw him once or twice when he was approaching 40 years old and obviously past his best but he still sticks in my mind as  an immaculate stylist. I would love to have seen him round Wimbledon at his peak.

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, E I Addio said:

A lot of respected speedway historians say that Ronnie Moore was the most naturally gifted man ever to sit on a s speedway bike. I am not in a position to judge, as I only saw him once or twice when he was approaching 40 years old and obviously past his best but he still sticks in my mind as  an immaculate stylist. I would love to have seen him round Wimbledon at his peak.

Can't disagree with that Addio he was a real stylist a gentleman to, i have never heard anyone say a bad word about him.Like yourself i only see Mirac ride four or five times but he was a terrific rider he rode great lines and he never looked the quickest but his trackcraft was as good as anybody.One of my biggest regrets was i never got to see Craven or Knutsson ride but both would rank high on anyone's alltime great list.