Photographers in British Speedway

[GreenLightGo]

I understand it’s gone much further than schoolboy stuff. And besides schoolboys usually get brought to book. We had a leather strap in the 60’s!!

Really hope that the BSPA, the Speedway Star and the respective clubs take strong action to make a stand against bullies. 

Glasgow, Edinburgh, Leicester and Belle Vue are some of the biggest names in the sport. Their promotions work hard in the community and these guys are pulling their names down.

[BobC]

My own comment on Facebook.

''When in Glasgow for the Scottish derby, I asked Taylor what it was all about. To his extreme credit he didnt want to comment. I admire that.

I suppose professionals can find a fault or two, even nit picking. But then again, who is at the top of their chosen profession at 17? Absolutely no one. Keep on snapping Taylor Lanning Photography. Let your camera do the talking''

I have been collecting speedway photos all of my life,from the late 50's right through to today.  Obviously Poole in particular. I am not interested in the technical details. All I know is that if I like it, I will buy it,simple as that.

However, this is making me think twice about buying others photos.

[Jonny the spud]

What’s been put online was screenshots of a private watts app conversation. I think the person who made it public is the one stirring things up. 

Im sure everyone on here has texted / said stuff that could be frowned upon if made public. 

Maybe there’s more to this than meets the eye ? 

[GreenLightGo]

10 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

What’s been put online was screenshots of a private watts app conversation. I think the person who made it public is the one stirring things up. 

Im sure everyone on here has texted / said stuff that could be frowned upon if made public. 

Maybe there’s more to this than meets the eye ? 

The private WhatsApp group seems to be one element of it yes. And of course this goes on in all forms of life.

but I understand it’s gone way beyond that and it is toxic and hostile behaviours towards the laddie. And that’s not on. 

As I said earlier up the thread, if the ‘men’ involved have a genuine grievance wouldn’t the mature thing be to sit down and discuss with the BSPA media team rather than pick on a young kid?

if I was the boy’s father I would be livid and action would certainly be taken in the strongest possible fashion.

Bullies cannot be tolerated. The photographers need to be named and shamed and banned. 

Lets wait and see what action the BSPA will take

 

[Jonny the spud]

My son started getting a lot of online grief when he started out. I used to defend him all the time until he asked me to step back and let him prove himself. 

Going public in a blaze of publicity isn’t always the best solution 

[therefused]

9 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

My son started getting a lot of online grief when he started out. I used to defend him all the time until he asked me to step back and let him prove himself. 

Going public in a blaze of publicity isn’t always the best solution 

There are also comments on facebook which everyone can see, it isnt private anymore. 

[GreenLightGo]

9 minutes ago, therefused said:

There are also comments on facebook which everyone can see, it isnt private anymore. 

As I have said before- it’s gone way past ‘comments’.

I would say 100% of parents would not accept or tolerate. 

[ProudtobeaBrummie]

22 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

My son started getting a lot of online grief when he started out. I used to defend him all the time until he asked me to step back and let him prove himself. 

Going public in a blaze of publicity isn’t always the best solution 

And prove himself he certainly has, in his quiet unassuming way . He is one of British speedways most popular riders and a credit to you.  i do not think i have ever heard a bad word about him.

[iris123]

It is all quite weird. Of course we can't see the comments any more as they have been deleted. As I know one of the photographers mentioned it seems very surprising he is involved in 'bullying'. I do know that he certainly has moved with the times as he showed me all his mobile equipment a number of years back where he could edit and send pics off from the track. It is also surprising at first that speedway media are using a young untried photographer as I had the feeling tried and tested was preferred. Someone who people know is reliable and has done the job for years and will generally always turn up and produce. Obviously taking a big chance using someone who has no track record and you don't know if he will find something else to do in a year or so.....and you have p'd off others.

Then of course you see the name Lanning and some of it comes into place. I did see a few pics online recently and thought 'ah ha'......

The thing is a couple of months ago a young lady at I think Berwick was also taking pics and was pretty good and then a fuss was kicked up and it seems she was stopped. Of course she isn't a 'Lanning' and so it all blew over very quickly so it seemed to me at least

Bullying should never be tolerated, but hard to comment when we don't seem to know the whole story

[GreenLightGo]

12 minutes ago, iris123 said:

It is all quite weird. Of course we can't see the comments any more as they have been deleted. As I know one of the photographers mentioned it seems very surprising he is involved in 'bullying'. I do know that he certainly has moved with the times as he showed me all his mobile equipment a number of years back where he could edit and send pics off from the track. It is also surprising at first that speedway media are using a young untried photographer as I had the feeling tried and tested was preferred. Someone who people know is reliable and has done the job for years and will generally always turn up and produce. Obviously taking a big chance using someone who has no track record and you don't know if he will find something else to do in a year or so.....and you have p'd off others.

Then of course you see the name Lanning and some of it comes into place. I did see a few pics online recently and thought 'ah ha'......

The thing is a couple of months ago a young lady at I think Berwick was also taking pics and was pretty good and then a fuss was kicked up and it seems she was stopped. Of course she isn't a 'Lanning' and so it all blew over very quickly so it seemed to me at least

Bullying should never be tolerated, but hard to comment when we don't seem to know the whole story

Interesting points you make. Glad you end your post the way you did.

If you’re good enough then you’re old enough. It seems his work has made the national newspapers with both speedway and in darts. Would they accept his pictures if they weren’t of the highest quality? I think he already has a pretty good track record at least the editors of the big national newspapers seem to think so. 

This story is simple. A lot of 50/60 year old photographers have seen a 17 year old surpass what has taken them years to get to and they don’t like it one bit. Instead of being mature and having a grown up discussion, they started to bully him.

i find it hugely ironic that the sport and its fans loves to see a teenage sensation on track beating the regular guys. 

But not if you’re a photographer.

[iris123]

11 minutes ago, GreenLightGo said:

Interesting points you make. Glad you end your post the way you did.

If you’re good enough then you’re old enough. It seems his work has made the national newspapers with both speedway and in darts. Would they accept his pictures if they weren’t of the highest quality? I think he already has a pretty good track record at least the editors of the big national newspapers seem to think so. 

This story is simple. A lot of 50/60 year old photographers have seen a 17 year old surpass what has taken them years to get to and they don’t like it one bit. Instead of being mature and having a grown up discussion, they started to bully him.

i find it hugely ironic that the sport and its fans loves to see a teenage sensation on track beating the regular guys. 

But not if you’re a photographer.

In a way I think if we had the same situation in our work place the reaction would also be negative. It might not be bullying, but I have had situations when starting a job when someone has said they wouldn't tell me all they know, they had to find out for themselves so I would have to as well. Or someone actually said he was going to go slow(on London Buses that was) and put the blame on me being inexperienced.....so if a youngster comes along with all the gear and people are pulling strings all over the place I can understand people are well peeved. That shouldn't end in any sort of bullying though 

[edmon]

If bullying is happening yes it is wrong. 

I asked a question last week having heard about this but unfortunately did not get an answer so I did a bit of investigating.

To get a llicence to take photographs you need to be 18. Is the problem that some object to strings being pulled for someone under that age to take photographs at tracks?

 

[iris123]

23 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

The reason the speedway media and elsewhere go for his photos is that he does different; different angles, different viewpoints -- brings a whole new thought process to the job.

Some of the old toggers have been churning out the same old, same old, same old shots for years. Boring - might as well take photos from the files.

They are being shown up for their lack of drive/initiative and don't like it.

Is this a fact or an opinion  I ask because I think I have seen statements before (maybe even from Steve Hone, who has posted here) that at least the Star didn't want new ideas or angles etc....

Seems a few points have cropped up. No 1 is he under age and is getting some big advantage he really shouldn't be getting? His father could be held responsible for putting the lad in this position he really shouldn't be in if a pass should only be issued to 18 year olds or over

The other thing that bugs me, just on the surface as I don't know all the details, is why the fuss about him and nowt about the young woman at Berwick ?

And tbh I get fed up quite quickly with all these strange pics with HD or the dark framing around the edges or taking pics from ground level.......

[GreenLightGo]

1 hour ago, edmon said:

If bullying is happening yes it is wrong. 

I asked a question last week having heard about this but unfortunately did not get an answer so I did a bit of investigating.

To get a llicence to take photographs you need to be 18. Is the problem that some object to strings being pulled for someone under that age to take photographs at tracks?

 

Interesting but with respect irrelevant. You are trying to establish cause for the behaviour but you don’t know. Unless of course you are one of the magnificent 7..

If the reason for their behaviour is that someone has been given a card illegally then it doesn’t excuse what they are doing one bit. Their protestations should go to the BSPA. 

Can you share where you obtained the information about having to be 18 because you are suggesting Nigel Pearson is engaging the services of someone under the correct age and that the issuer of the cards is breaking their own rules. Both pretty serious.

i really can’t see either party above taking a huge risk because if anything happens to the kid on the track wouldn’t there be an insurance liability? And wouldn’t that be void if rules were broken? (I confess I don’t really know the insurance issues for staff etc)

BUT still doesn’t excuse their behaviour does it? 

[Aces51]

I have been impressed with some of his photographs.  I have no idea if you have to be 18 to get a pass but it would seem odd if that is true when you can race when as young as 15.

Equally, I can understand older photographers feeling aggrieved if they feel that a competitor is getting an unfair advantage because of his connections. However, you don't deal with that by bullying the person concerned. You deal with it by taking the matter up with those you feel are allowing what you perceive to be unfair competition. 

[GreenLightGo]

18 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

I have been impressed with some of his photographs.  I have no idea if you have to be 18 to get a pass but it would seem odd if that is true when you can race when as young as 15.

Equally, I can understand older photographers feeling aggrieved if they feel that a competitor is getting an unfair advantage because of his connections. However, you don't deal with that by bullying the person concerned. You deal with it by taking the matter up with those you feel are allowing what you perceive to be unfair competition. 

Totally agree with you.  

[JCookie]

Cannot believe some on here can say it isn't strictly bullying as it was a private WhatsApp group, sorry but it is bullying and it is unacceptable. I'd tend to agree with the posts above that it's a lot of sad, old men who have had it their own way for too long and now they have a bit of competition.

However, and having said all that, if Taylor is getting a leg up because of his dad and Pearson then it's not right. Pearson seems to be slowly taking over all speedway media recently, including these "special" programmes we get for the shared events. I did note in the recent SoN programme that Pearson had something to do with the company that makes them. These jobs for the boys are the kind of crap that speedway could do without, and just carries on from the Terry Russell days. We'll never get fair media now we'll just get whatever Pearson wants.

Whatever the truth is, bullying of a 17 year old child is pathetic, but perhaps not unexpected from some of those involved.

[snapper]

Think it is about time I posted on this thread as some of it seems to be about me.  My name is Ian Adam and I have been a photographer at Glasgow Speedway since 1991 of there abouts.  I first met Taylor Lanning in 2015 as I knew his dad Phil Lanning from many years back at Shawfield Speedway.  His dad asked me as he was interested in photography if he could take some photos on the centre green technically I should have said no as he was only 13/14 at the time but as Phil was a friend I said yes. Phil also asked me for some help in picking cameras and I have pointed him in the right direction in picking up good deals in lenses.  Along these years I have been more that happy to pass onto Taylor tips on how to capture the action and I think now seeing where he is and the quality he is producing my help and training has paid off. Now it appears that according to Phil I have been involved in bullying his son for over two years an allegation that I strongly deny I have never bullied Taylor Lanning if I have where is the evidence.  During this alleged two years bullying Phil and Taylor have shared a table with my family at the Tigers End of Season dance, 4 years running and no mention of bulling was raised at the table I also shared a car with Phil and Taylor to the SON meeting at Belle Vue in 2018 stopping off at Bolton for some lunch again no mention of bullying at any time during the trip.  Phil also arranged for me to obtain a photographer pass for the Dubai Airshow in November 2017 and again no mention of bullying also in December 2018 I attended a Christmas Speedway function with Phil and again no mention of bullying at any time during the day.  I was a member of a UK wide Speedway Photographers WhatsApp group which this season raised concerns about the number of tracks that Phil and Taylor were turning up at and taking photographs at without any prior introduction to the track photographers based there which should be a done as a form of courtesy which now appears to have been an oversight which Nigel Pearson has apologies to all the photographers for, and it may have turned into a bit of a moan fest but I do not see this as a from of bullying as it was not directed at any individuals and it was raised on a private chat group. The poster GreenLightGo seems to know a lot about this situation so I am more that happy to share with them my home phone number and we can have a chat and I will be happy to explain the facts to them and answer their questions I also notice they are a regular at Ashfield again I would be happy to meet them after a meeting at Ashfield and discuss. I believe the management at Glasgow are going to have a full investigation into these serious  allegations, as they should and I commend them caring out this investigation, I have informed them I am more that happy to fully cooperate with this investigation. I will say again I have never bulled Taylor Lanning.

[The Doctor...]

1 hour ago, snapper said:

Think it is about time I posted on this thread as some of it seems to be about me.  My name is Ian Adam and I have been a photographer at Glasgow Speedway since 1991 of there abouts.  I first met Taylor Lanning in 2015 as I knew his dad Phil Lanning from many years back at Shawfield Speedway.  His dad asked me as he was interested in photography if he could take some photos on the centre green technically I should have said no as he was only 13/14 at the time but as Phil was a friend I said yes. Phil also asked me for some help in picking cameras and I have pointed him in the right direction in picking up good deals in lenses.  Along these years I have been more that happy to pass onto Taylor tips on how to capture the action and I think now seeing where he is and the quality he is producing my help and training has paid off. Now it appears that according to Phil I have been involved in bullying his son for over two years an allegation that I strongly deny I have never bullied Taylor Lanning if I have where is the evidence.  During this alleged two years bullying Phil and Taylor have shared a table with my family at the Tigers End of Season dance, 4 years running and no mention of bulling was raised at the table I also shared a car with Phil and Taylor to the SON meeting at Belle Vue in 2018 stopping off at Bolton for some lunch again no mention of bullying at any time during the trip.  Phil also arranged for me to obtain a photographer pass for the Dubai Airshow in November 2017 and again no mention of bullying also in December 2018 I attended a Christmas Speedway function with Phil and again no mention of bullying at any time during the day.  I was a member of a UK wide Speedway Photographers WhatsApp group which this season raised concerns about the number of tracks that Phil and Taylor were turning up at and taking photographs at without any prior introduction to the track photographers based there which should be a done as a form of courtesy which now appears to have been an oversight which Nigel Pearson has apologies to all the photographers for, and it may have turned into a bit of a moan fest but I do not see this as a from of bullying as it was not directed at any individuals and it was raised on a private chat group. The poster GreenLightGo seems to know a lot about this situation so I am more that happy to share with them my home phone number and we can have a chat and I will be happy to explain the facts to them and answer their questions I also notice they are a regular at Ashfield again I would be happy to meet them after a meeting at Ashfield and discuss. I believe the management at Glasgow are going to have a full investigation into these serious  allegations, as they should and I commend them caring out this investigation, I have informed them I am more that happy to fully cooperate with this investigation. I will say again I have never bulled Taylor Lanning.

Good on you to have taken the time to put that all down, however.. i think you will get asked a few questions here.

From me tho, I'm astounded that you or whoever in your whatsapp group that was grizzling about "courtesy" has got the cheek to even expect that.  With respect, i presume none of you are employees of the club, so perhaps your ire should have been aimed at your club who gave them access rather than having some kind of hissy fit which has turned into all this. 

The posts shared on twitter tonight allude to some of your group objecting to use of photoshop which is very different to your "courtesy" issue mentioned here. If they've genuinely got a problem with something that is used in almost every sphere of photography now, then you lot might aswell stick your gear on ebay as photo editing software isn't going anywhere is it ?

Whatever the case may be, none of you, whatever your back-peddling and justification , comes out of this looking very good at all and i think you've all tarnished whatever reputations you had within the sport - which is a shame. 

 

 

[edmon]

GreenLight Go - I am not one of the seven, you refer to, as you will see in my original post last week where I posted my name. I am not hiding behind an alias.

I got the information from a former senior official, but will not name him as i do not have permission to do so.

You should always look at the root cause of a problem. That is what you ultimately have to deal with to stop things like this happening and unless you solve that the same could happen again.

I have said that bullying is wrong and do not condone it.

 

Bill Purnell

Edited May 25, 2019 by edmon
delete double use of words 'have to'