Photographers in British Speedway

[Star Lady]

I'm not familiar with any of the photographers involved,   but surely if the 17 year olds pictures are as good as or better than those of the old established photographers, they will be the ones sought after by the media and eventually by fans.

Just because someone has done the same job for many years it doesn't follow that they are better than anyone else.

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Star Lady

[flagrag]

I don’t think there is any doubt that Taylor is a good young up and coming photographer who is prepared to do the miles to take his pictures all around the country.

To answer some questions about why clubs keep using Taylor’s photos where possible this is due to clubs sub contracting their social media presence out to Phil Lanning media which is Taylor’s dad that is part of the reason why he is around so many tracks so clubs are getting away meetings as well as home.

Also the BSPA social media output is done by Nigel Pearson whose preferred photography supplier is Lanning Media 

[stevebrum]

17 minutes ago, Star Lady said:

I'm not familiar with any of the photographers involved,   but surely if the 17 year olds pictures are as good as or better than those of the old established photographers, they will be the ones sought after by the media and eventually by fans.

Just because someone has done the same job for many years it doesn't follow that they are better than anyone else.

 

My understanding is that the 17 year old would have to have an official license to take pictures and publish. If he has then it’s not an issue. I know at Birmingham there are 3 sometimes 4 photographers all official. 

A valid point would be if he doesn’t have the required license.

[GreenLightGo]

1 hour ago, CottonOn said:

Are we perhaps not looking at this from the right perspective?

Speedway these days is not a big sport, and doesn't give many people an income.  In fact most people investing time and money in the sport do so knowing they're going to get very little back, and probably not even cover their costs.

Say for instance you ran the track spares van at Leicester.   It's hardly a money-spinner.    Or say you had the burger van concession at Leicester.  Probably not going to make you a millionaire.

So how would you react if someone rocked up at Leicester selling fuel and oil etc and taking away the official spares man's meagre earnings?  How would you react if someone parked a burger van outside the Leicester car park, taking the business of the guy who had paid for an official concession?

Why should the Leicester official track photographer be any different?   As far as I understand it, all of the official track photographers across the country usually provide all the pictures to the clubs free of charge.  in return they might get a few quid back to cover their expenses by flogging pics to outside media outlets or the track shop for supporters to buy.

Now an enthusiastic 17-year-old might not be any real threat to professional photographers, but if we give carte-blanche to people to just turn up at any track taking snaps, how long before the professional photographers decide it's no longer worth the cost of fuel to cover speedway?  And the sport loses out?

It might just be enthusiasm, but it does sound like this 17-year-old has encroached on the work of official photographers at half a dozen tracks.   Perhaps the answer is for him to concentrate on his own local track and learn the trade there, with a view to becoming that track's official photographer? 

 

(N.B.  I only used Leicester as an example in the above.  I don't know who the photographer, spares man, or burger seller is at Leicester, but you can change Leicester for any other track name.  The point is the same).

 

I like different perspectives- thanks for yours.

i don’t agree though that he is encroaching anywhere. You can’t simply turn up and start taking pics. You need to have a BSPA card and I assume he has one. He also apparently works for Nigel Pearson so he is fully entitled to go where he is asked to go. If Nigel Pearson chooses to use his stuff the surely that’s his prerogative and not the ‘fault’ of the boy. 

If the existing photographers are unhappy then wouldn’t it be more grown up to sit down with the right people and discuss as adults rather than embarking on a bullying campaign? 

I find it hard to believe that the group have acted in this way. Especially given their ages. 

Its hardly likely to endear themselves to Nigel Pearson given that they are targeting one of his team.

 

[HGould]

If Taylor Lanning has a License and takes good pictures and wants to try to make a living out of it fair play to him.

Fair play too to the older Track Photographers, if they have a gripe only fair they are allowed to gripe.

I think all are missing bigger culprits. Those who get licensed, have no interest in Speedway, more adding to "a portfolio" and who then flood social media with 100's of pictures from meetings they attend that they don't try to sell or pass on but which are just self publicising their own website or business.

Some of them are very good but they are bigger threat to dedicated Speedway only photographers in my opinion.

 

[GreenLightGo]

3 minutes ago, HGould said:

If Taylor Lanning has a License and takes good pictures and wants to try to make a living out of it fair play to him.

Fair play too to the older Track Photographers, if they have a gripe only fair they are allowed to gripe.

I think all are missing bigger culprits. Those who get licensed, have no interest in Speedway, more adding to "a portfolio" and who then flood social media with 100's of pictures from meetings they attend that they don't try to sell or pass on but which are just self publicising their own website or business.

Some of them are very good but they are bigger threat to dedicated Speedway only photographers in my opinion.

 

You make some good points. 

The only issue I have is that ‘gripes’ shouldn’t turn into bullying/trolling - and it has.

A mature approach to airing gripes would be to sit down and discuss openly. Not to do what they have done which is disgraceful. 

[Trees]

22 minutes ago, flagrag said:

I don’t think there is any doubt that Taylor is a good young up and coming photographer who is prepared to do the miles to take his pictures all around the country.

To answer some questions about why clubs keep using Taylor’s photos where possible this is due to clubs sub contracting their social media presence out to Phil Lanning media which is Taylor’s dad that is part of the reason why he is around so many tracks so clubs are getting away meetings as well as home.

Also the BSPA social media output is done by Nigel Pearson whose preferred photography supplier is Lanning Media 

Yes of course they should've approached the promotions who they photograph for but equally Nigel and Phil ought to more thoughtful of track photographer's perhaps especially if they provide photos for no charge ... Nigel and his team do a great job but the social media stuff is repetitive (same style for each club) it obviously makes their job easier ....

[GreenLightGo]

1 minute ago, Trees said:

Yes of course they should've approached the promotions who they photograph for but equally Nigel and Phil ought to more thoughtful of track photographer's perhaps especially if they provide photos for no charge ... Nigel and his team do a great job but the social media stuff is repetitive (same style for each club) it obviously makes their job easier ....

If they provide pictures free of charge that’s not a good reason to use them. They might not be the quality or style required. I have noticed a vast improvement in the Speedway Star pics of late and I think output has gone up a notch or 3.

Perhaps the old boys simply don’t make the brief these days? Perhaps the big standard shots are old hat? Perhaps the old guys realise they can’t produce the quality? 

[cityrebel]

35 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

Modern publishing is so fast...almost instantaneous. I know a chap who sends pics direct from the scene of events to national press---those pics are on the website within minutes. That's how it is these days.

That's why premier league football clubs try to block mobile phone signals when the game kicks off. They don't want normal fans taking and posting unlicensed photos on the web whilst the match is in progress. It's all about protecting their image rights.

[SharpenRake]

8 hours ago, GreenLightGo said:

He may have received help in the past but all people involved are prominent track photographers at their respective tracks. In fact, I am pretty sure they are all named club photographers. Go to twitter and search on #amow and It reveals some interesting info. 

 

Thanks for trying to help. I did what you suggested and got lots of stuff about 'Annoying Moment of the Week' and a couple of speedway photographers who attached it to some photos along with other hash tags. There wasn't any mention of young Taylor. 

[GreenLightGo]

13 minutes ago, SharpenRake said:

Thanks for trying to help. I did what you suggested and got lots of stuff about 'Annoying Moment of the Week' and a couple of speedway photographers who attached it to some photos along with other hash tags. There wasn't any mention of young Taylor. 

The ones using it are the ones allegedly involved

[WalterPlinge]

5 hours ago, CottonOn said:

Are we perhaps not looking at this from the right perspective?

Speedway these days is not a big sport, and doesn't give many people an income.  In fact most people investing time and money in the sport do so knowing they're going to get very little back, and probably not even cover their costs.

Say for instance you ran the track spares van at Leicester.   It's hardly a money-spinner.    Or say you had the burger van concession at Leicester.  Probably not going to make you a millionaire.

So how would you react if someone rocked up at Leicester selling fuel and oil etc and taking away the official spares man's meagre earnings?  How would you react if someone parked a burger van outside the Leicester car park, taking the business of the guy who had paid for an official concession?

Why should the Leicester official track photographer be any different?   As far as I understand it, all of the official track photographers across the country usually provide all the pictures to the clubs free of charge.  in return they might get a few quid back to cover their expenses by flogging pics to outside media outlets or the track shop for supporters to buy.

Now an enthusiastic 17-year-old might not be any real threat to professional photographers, but if we give carte-blanche to people to just turn up at any track taking snaps, how long before the professional photographers decide it's no longer worth the cost of fuel to cover speedway?  And the sport loses out?

It might just be enthusiasm, but it does sound like this 17-year-old has encroached on the work of official photographers at half a dozen tracks.   Perhaps the answer is for him to concentrate on his own local track and learn the trade there, with a view to becoming that track's official photographer? 

 

(N.B.  I only used Leicester as an example in the above.  I don't know who the photographer, spares man, or burger seller is at Leicester, but you can change Leicester for any other track name.  The point is the same).

 

Agreed. 

I think the BSPA are sloppy with their handling of media rights.  They should be protecting the rights of the official photographers from each track. 

I fear a Pearson cartel having free licence to roam anywhere can only be bad for the sport.  We've only just escaped the Russell monopoly on creaming money out of the sport's media rights.

No doubt "GreenLightGo" will see it differently.   I probably would if it was my son.

[GreenLightGo]

18 minutes ago, WalterPlinge said:

Agreed. 

I think the BSPA are sloppy with their handling of media rights.  They should be protecting the rights of the official photographers from each track. 

I fear a Pearson cartel having free licence to roam anywhere can only be bad for the sport.  We've only just escaped the Russell monopoly on creaming money out of the sport's media rights.

No doubt "GreenLightGo" will see it differently.   I probably would if it was my son.

Yes you’ve busted me. Your a clever, clever man. 

However I'm not. I’m a lot too old. 

You miss the point and by doing so you appear to condone bullying. 

Irrespective of whether the track photographers have a real or perceived issue and need ‘protecting’ they have been caught out bullying and trolling. If they had done the mature thing and made a formal complaint to the BSPA then I’m sure their issue would have been given a fair hearing. If they are indeed being frozen out by a cartel as you put it, then they could approach the right people to make that known. But they didn’t. They chose to bully a kid. They are a disgrace.

 

[The Doctor...]

45 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

If you want to know how the modern media works, take a look at the Eastbourne website and their live report from tonight's meeting at Glasgow. Constantly updated throughout the meeting with text and photographs. The older 'togs need to catch up. This is how the media works in 2019...no time to go home and develop (!) your film and post out the pictures second class the next day. Ok, the last time is just for a smile.

I agree the Eastbourne live report thing was good..

re the #amow thing on twitter, i assume some of the chaps behind it have  deleted their messages as i can only find a handful of posts from Steve Dixon (who's on here isn't he?) and Ian Charles.  Quite cringeworthy i think tho and very much stinks of veterans who have had their feathers ruffled by someone who is new on the block and is perhaps using methods and contacts that they themselves have never had the chance to exploit.  All very sad.

[GreenLightGo]

6 hours ago, The Doctor... said:

I agree the Eastbourne live report thing was good..

re the #amow thing on twitter, i assume some of the chaps behind it have  deleted their messages as i can only find a handful of posts from Steve Dixon (who's on here isn't he?) and Ian Charles.  Quite cringeworthy i think tho and very much stinks of veterans who have had their feathers ruffled by someone who is new on the block and is perhaps using methods and contacts that they themselves have never had the chance to exploit.  All very sad.

I couldn’t agree more. Yes the others have quickly deleted their #amow hashtags. At Glasgow last night I did not see two of the photographers that are involved so perhaps the Facennas have taken action already?. They run a large scale business and I imagine they know the consequences of not dealing with situations such as these. They have built a very professional operation up here and wouldn’t allow their reputations to be sullied in this way. I understand BelleVue are run by big London banking investors and I can imagine they will have a similar perspective on bullies. Leicester is run by a guy high up in the BSPA and Edinburgh by the ex chair of the BSPA. Can’t see any of them not wanting to take action. 

 

[edmon]

Serious question - At what age are BSPA approved photographers given a Licence/Permit?

[GreenLightGo]

This looks like it’s still rolling on.

Peter Oakes has picked this up so don’t be surprised if it becomes a red top story.

in effect these people are bringing the sport into disrepute and I sincerely hope they have their BSPA passes removed. The only thing that might save them is the toothlessness of the governing body. If this was happening to a 17 year old rider in the pits, I’m sure they would find away if fining the riders.

I understand that Phil Rising of the Speedway Star is on here a lot - so a question for Phil is what are you going to do about it?!

Bullies cannot be tolerated

[CB252]

I'm not sure it's up to Phil Rising to do anything about it?

I buy my speedway star to read about speedway not photographers having a schoolboy squabble.

Just boot the offending photographers out and put someone else in their place.

[GreenLightGo]

9 minutes ago, CB252 said:

I'm not sure it's up to Phil Rising to do anything about it?

I buy my speedway star to read about speedway not photographers having a schoolboy squabble.

Just boot the offending photographers out and put someone else in their place.

He can refuse to use their pictures. That would be one thing he could do. 

[CB252]

Just now, GreenLightGo said:

He can refuse to use their pictures. That would be one thing he could do. 

Yes, quite. I would fully agree with that stance.

Just put the photographers out of work. Can't stop them behaving like schoolboys on social media though I'm afraid.