SoN Belle Vue

[stevebrum]

1 hour ago, iwright71 said:

Top level sport is all about intensity . Unfortunately this format now provides the first 2 events which are forgone conclusions . Yes the 2 day Final may be great but the old World Cup format was much better. 1 winner from event 1 and 2 through to the Final, places 2 and 3 to the race off , with the top 2 from the race off progressing to the Final. Under this format can see Manchester regularly having one of first 2 events with the numbers that turned out at Manchester last night. Credit to the GB fans but can see this interest waning, knowing the result of sport before you turn up is not great. The format if to continue needs a further tweak. 

I see your point, however the same can be said of the WTC too. It’s usually a formality in event 1 and 2 with the weakest teams in each event a pure filler. It’s always the obvious 3 better nations that qualify for the later stages. Although of course winning those events have much more importance for intensity.

[moomin man 76]

20 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

I see your point, however the same can be said of the WTC too. It’s usually a formality in event 1 and 2 with the weakest teams in each event a pure filler. It’s always the obvious 3 better nations that qualify for the later stages. Although of course winning those events have much more importance for intensity.

The mandatory Under 21 rule doesn't do the smaller speedway nations any favours, as they are far less likely to have a competitive rider to select. It makes the gulf between the 'haves' and 'have not's' that much wider.

It also doesn't do the riders any favours; for instance, think of the time and expense of Finland sending Timi Salonen to the event, for him to have a mechanical failure at the start of Heat One. The French Under 21 rider also looked little better than National League standard.

in my opinion, it would be better for each competing country to nominate any three riders of their choice with one rider acting as a reserve. This would formally turn the event back into the World Pairs, which the Speedway of Nations is masquerading as anyway.

[SpeedyOne]

15 hours ago, andout said:

OK, I'll give it shot and try to explain....

Heat 7 France beat USA 5-1

Heat 13 France get a 3-3 with Latvia but France's 2nd and 3rd gives them a NON-COUNTING Bonus point for simply breaking ties at the end if the meeting.

Heat 17 USA beat Latvia 4-2

France therefore beats both and gets the Ranking for the meeting as 4th, USA with the win over Latvia gets 5th Ranking and Latvia 6th.

 

This is wrong.   

Head to heads don't matter with 3 or more tied teams.   It is total bonus points that matter.

 

14 hours ago, WalterPlinge said:

When more than 2 teams are tied on the same number of points, you go back and count bonus points.

So in the tie for 4th, 5th and 6th,  France had scored 3 bonus points (and therefore finished 4th).  USA had 2 bonus points (finishing 5th) and Latvia had just 1 bonus point (so 6th).

 

This is correct.

[GiveusaB]

2 hours ago, iwright71 said:

Top level sport is all about intensity . Unfortunately this format now provides the first 2 events which are forgone conclusions . Yes the 2 day Final may be great but the old World Cup format was much better. 1 winner from event 1 and 2 through to the Final, places 2 and 3 to the race off , with the top 2 from the race off progressing to the Final. Under this format can see Manchester regularly having one of first 2 events with the numbers that turned out at Manchester last night. Credit to the GB fans but can see this interest waning, knowing the result of sport before you turn up is not great. The format if to continue needs a further tweak. 

The format had to change to make the competition more interesting....if the old style '4' man team event had remained, then nobody would get anywhere near Poland for another few years to come!

[racers and royals]

From the FIM speedway of Nations rules.

Race Off 1 & 2 

1a.  In the event of equal points for two teams after the conclusion of the heat 21, or heat 14 if for any reason the meeting cannot reach heat 21, the team that scored the most points when the two teams met will be considered the better placed team.

1b. If the two teams scored the same quantity of points, the team taking second and third positions will be considered the better placed team.

1c. In the event of equal points for three or more teams, after the conclusion of the qualification heats, teams are considered to have scored a bonus point on each occasion they finish in positions 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 during the qualification heats. The team scoring the higher number of bonus points will be considered the better placed team.

1d. If there still remains a tie, the amount of first, second, third and fourth places in total taken by all riders will decide the better placed team. Zero for last placing is better than being disqualified for whatever reason.

1e. If all other solutions cannot resolve the tie, then the Team with the highest 2019 SoN Ranking will be deemed the better placed Team.

Edited May 12, 2019 by racers and royals

[topaz325]

Really enjoyed the racing last night, again the NSS delivers again, good to see Tero Aarnio, the American team , well all the riders really for putting on a good show.

On the negative side the PA was difficult to hear at times in the stand so missed some team changes, the catering effort was poor, surely it is basic planning to get it right eg extra staff , better organised or pop up bars.

Some fans were more interested in going for a beer then returning mid race walking in front of people?

[Fromafar]

11 hours ago, mikebv said:

Took my 15 year old lad and it cost £22.50 for the pair of us..

Fantastic value for money...

Thought the racing was very good with several excellent races

Just watched it on the box and the coverage didn't do it any justice, dreadful directorship....

Wrong cameras were time and time again being used, missing lots of the action...

Wouldn't have thought he/she is familiar with Speedway looking at the way they missed so much by doing close ups of single riders 20 yards in front..

As for the catering? 

On the South Stand there was one lad serving behind the bar which led to long, long queues, and they ran out of lager with about six heats left...

"We've only got cider!" Was the shout...

It helped keep the queues down....

There must have a couple of thousand tickets sold for the South Stand, and this was known, so not great planning I would think..

A Premiership meeting would have cost us £25 and for £2.50 less we got to see Woffy blast round giving a masterclass in speed and control...

Not a bad night at all, looking forward now to the World U21 Final to get my next Speedway fix..

Lets hope for another sensibly priced event and another good crowd (but more lager)!...

 

Any idea when tickets will be available forWorld/21 Team final?

[SPEEDY69]

7 hours ago, topaz325 said:

Really enjoyed the racing last night, again the NSS delivers again, good to see Tero Aarnio, the American team , well all the riders really for putting on a good show.

On the negative side the PA was difficult to hear at times in the stand so missed some team changes, the catering effort was poor, surely it is basic planning to get it right eg extra staff , better organised or pop up bars.

Some fans were more interested in going for a beer then returning mid race walking in front of people?

And this is what some promoters don't understand, some people just want a night out! 

[James Carter]

Good morning all

Just watched SON from Belle Vue on catch up and I thought it came across brilliant. Best match I've seen this year. Perhaps BT did some editting if some of the live camera work wasn't great. 

Full house, brilliant speedway, minor nations mixing it. Got to say the new style SON is excellent. 

 

[Trees]

20 hours ago, iwright71 said:

Top level sport is all about intensity . Unfortunately this format now provides the first 2 events which are forgone conclusions . Yes the 2 day Final may be great but the old World Cup format was much better. 1 winner from event 1 and 2 through to the Final, places 2 and 3 to the race off , with the top 2 from the race off progressing to the Final. Under this format can see Manchester regularly having one of first 2 events with the numbers that turned out at Manchester last night. Credit to the GB fans but can see this interest waning, knowing the result of sport before you turn up is not great. The format if to continue needs a further tweak. 

World Pairs with more than two from each country, pairs put forward by federations with world ranking of riders taken into consideration too?

[f-s-p]

18 hours ago, moomin man 76 said:

The mandatory Under 21 rule doesn't do the smaller speedway nations any favours, as they are far less likely to have a competitive rider to select. It makes the gulf between the 'haves' and 'have not's' that much wider.

It also doesn't do the riders any favours; for instance, think of the time and expense of Finland sending Timi Salonen to the event, for him to have a mechanical failure at the start of Heat One. The French Under 21 rider also looked little better than National League standard.

in my opinion, it would be better for each competing country to nominate any three riders of their choice with one rider acting as a reserve. This would formally turn the event back into the World Pairs, which the Speedway of Nations is masquerading as anyway.

Nobody other than FIM wanted to make the 3rd rider a mandatory U21 and Poland is the only nation that has more than 1 good enough of them.

[f-s-p]

18 hours ago, GiveusaB said:

The format had to change to make the competition more interesting....if the old style '4' man team event had remained, then nobody would get anywhere near Poland for another few years to come!

I strongly feel that the format of the competition changed so that there would even be a competition.

[f-s-p]

11 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Any idea when tickets will be available forWorld/21 Team final?

Not sure when it starts but they will be available on the day.

[stevebrum]

18 hours ago, moomin man 76 said:

The mandatory Under 21 rule doesn't do the smaller speedway nations any favours, as they are far less likely to have a competitive rider to select. It makes the gulf between the 'haves' and 'have not's' that much wider.

It also doesn't do the riders any favours; for instance, think of the time and expense of Finland sending Timi Salonen to the event, for him to have a mechanical failure at the start of Heat One. The French Under 21 rider also looked little better than National League standard.

in my opinion, it would be better for each competing country to nominate any three riders of their choice with one rider acting as a reserve. This would formally turn the event back into the World Pairs, which the Speedway of Nations is masquerading as anyway.

Good point, although I have to applaud those in authority for making it compulsory because it should make all nations involved look to the future and bring on young talent.

Poland is a hard one to compare too because they lead the way in everything. It’s only the ‘pairs’ competition that they don’t have the most outstanding team and juniors. 

But it’s a fair point recommending any 3 riders however it’s still the same issue between those that have 3 outstanding riders and those who have only, at best 1 (Slovenia/Czech/Latvia etc)

[moomin man 76]

32 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Good point, although I have to applaud those in authority for making it compulsory because it should make all nations involved look to the future and bring on young talent.

Poland is a hard one to compare too because they lead the way in everything. It’s only the ‘pairs’ competition that they don’t have the most outstanding team and juniors. 

But it’s a fair point recommending any 3 riders however it’s still the same issue between those that have 3 outstanding riders and those who have only, at best 1 (Slovenia/Czech/Latvia etc)

However, as it is at the moment, the rule is tokenistic with each Under 21 rider having to only take one ride. I feel that they either have to remove the rule completely, or alternatively make the Under 21 rider take as many rides as the other riders in the team. Of course, if they were to choose the latter, it would make the gap between the 'haves' and 'have not's' even greater.

At least by reverting to the old World Pairs format, it would give the smaller nations a better chance of springing an upset and reaching the final, as it would make their pool of talent a little larger.

The state of speedway in most countries, at present, is such that it is difficult for most nations concerned to invest and try to develop young talent. in an ideal world that wouldn't be the case. However, outside of Poland, there isn't the money available to do so. Moreover, in most countries you are relying on a network of volunteers, such as club officials in Scandinavia, to keep tracks open, encourage new riders into the sport and try to develop them.

Edited May 13, 2019 by moomin man 76

[iris123]

I am more and more the opinion that it is just down to pure luck when a young talent comes through. I mean look at Denmark, who have no problem with track availability and even in theory upped their game by putting Gundersen in charge of youth development. But in all honesty, as I have said a few times, the last top riders like Bjerre, Liglad, Madsen and Kildemand were all well on the way before Erik took the reigns. Bjerre and Madsen already on 500cc. Since that time Danish talent has dried up, Swedes have had problems getting someone through, the Australian system throws up a surprise now and again and we have got lucky with Lambert and of course Tai.

But I have said before, the case of riders doing 3 or 4 leagues cuts down opportunities. But is it a chicken or egg situation? Is it necessary because there aren't the riders out there or does it put youngsters off at an early stage because they can't get the rides.... Is it only realistic to have an Elite championship with the top teams and have another championship for the lesser teams maybe with promotion/relegation each year? Cut out the dross and have a nailbiting comp. Although in speedway there probably isn't the money there to run a sort of 2nd division SWC 

[racers and royals]

On 5/11/2019 at 9:43 PM, racers and royals said:

BT Sport have just said  that  coverage of the finals from Russia in July start at 5.45pm for i assume 6pm 1st race- however even though i can`t find official confirmation of start time anywhere- adverts coming out of Togliatti show i believe start time of 7pm local which is 4pm UK time- so we will have to wait to see if BT have the correct time.

Speedway GP website have added that start time is 7pm local which will be 4pm here- so BT Sport have definitely made a mistake in saying 5.45pm- that should be 3.45 pm  

[moomin man 76]

7 hours ago, iris123 said:

I am more and more the opinion that it is just down to pure luck when a young talent comes through. I mean look at Denmark, who have no problem with track availability and even in theory upped their game by putting Gundersen in charge of youth development. But in all honesty, as I have said a few times, the last top riders like Bjerre, Liglad, Madsen and Kildemand were all well on the way before Erik took the reigns. Bjerre and Madsen already on 500cc. Since that time Danish talent has dried up, Swedes have had problems getting someone through, the Australian system throws up a surprise now and again and we have got lucky with Lambert and of course Tai.

I think there is an element of truth in what you are saying...for instance, if Speedway of Nations had existed two years ago, Finland could have chosen from Nike Lunna, Jesse Mustonen and Jooa Partanen as an Under 21 rider. Hopefully Timi Salonen develops, but he isn't at their level yet...

[KIRKYLANE]

14 hours ago, James Carter said:

Good morning all

Just watched SON from Belle Vue on catch up and I thought it came across brilliant. Best match I've seen this year. Perhaps BT did some editting if some of the live camera work wasn't great. 

Full house, brilliant speedway, minor nations mixing it. Got to say the new style SON is excellent. 

 

Next time you go to Belle Vue m buy the Peter Craven Memorial meeting ... DVD

Super value and great racing

[Islander15]

1 hour ago, racers and royals said:

Speedway GP website have added that start time is 7pm local which will be 4pm here- so BT Sport have definitely made a mistake in saying 5.45pm- that should be 3.45 pm  

Maybe they’re planning on showing delayed coverage at the usual GP time slot as live coverage might clash with other sports that they usually show in the afternoon.