Rider replacement

[Binman]

Two national league meetings today both using RR sorry this is a development league clubs should use a unattached rider to fill the place. 

[teaboy279]

You call it what ya like fella, it's no more a development league, then the the championship is to the premiership.

And despite it back firing the reason Len took the decision to use RR was so he could give our own youngsters an extra heat.

I ve done over a 1000 miles this week travelling to meetings from top flight to national league and spent a fortune, and Plymouth v Kent had more passes then I had seen in the other meetings this week put together.

You add in more unattached wobblers especially in Kent's case at number 1, the less fans will come to watch.

[Halifaxtiger]

At Belle Vue, Palin, Rathbone and Woodhull all had extra rides. All up to standard and all developing.

What on earth is wrong with that ? 

[mikebv]

10 hours ago, Binman said:

Two national league meetings today both using RR sorry this is a development league clubs should use a unattached rider to fill the place. 

I would suggest at the bottom end of the NL the standard is as low as you would want to go so RR gives those riders potential extra rides..

Where RR should be used more is in the top two leagues...

A ridiculous amount of guest riders get used when a 'fit for purpose' RR (not the current system), could be used instead, meaning the sport remains credible..

Riders want to earn more money so let them by taking more rides per meeting instead of bringing a non team member in...

For the NL those unattached riders need to wait for their place and take the opportunity when it comes along through natural selection, not get drafted in on a adhoc whim basis, and maybe then flit from team to team weekly depending on how well they do...

The sport needs some credible rules at all levels...

[britmet]

3 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

At Belle Vue, Palin, Rathbone and Woodhull all had extra rides. All up to standard and all developing.

What on earth is wrong with that ? 

If you support riders having more rides per match, what should be done is change the format and ride 6-man teams over 16 heats, - NOT pretend we have 7-man teams but only track 6 (or 5).
The more rides the better 3 have, the less exposure the rawer 2 or 3 have, - then that, over time, leads to a diminishing pool. 

[ouch]

If you do that you’re denying a seventh rider a regular place in the team. It’s not as though RR is a regular thing so changing the format to make it look better on the few occasions when we are down to six lads doesn’t make sense. 

[Ben91]

1 hour ago, britmet said:

If you support riders having more rides per match, what should be done is change the format and ride 6-man teams over 16 heats, - NOT pretend we have 7-man teams but only track 6 (or 5).
The more rides the better 3 have, the less exposure the rawer 2 or 3 have, - then that, over time, leads to a diminishing pool. 

No. Speedway riders get injured and/or are unavailable sometimes. The teams aren’t pretending to have seven riders... 

[Halifaxtiger]

3 hours ago, britmet said:

If you support riders having more rides per match, what should be done is change the format and ride 6-man teams over 16 heats, - NOT pretend we have 7-man teams but only track 6 (or 5).
The more rides the better 3 have, the less exposure the rawer 2 or 3 have, - then that, over time, leads to a diminishing pool. 

Depending on who the missing rider is, you do have a point.

Using a junior for Kemp would be ridiculous, damage the gate and probably not do the junior much good. Using a junior for Bowen is very different.

[britmet]

On 4/20/2019 at 9:28 AM, ouch said:

If you do that you’re denying a seventh rider a regular place in the team. It’s not as though RR is a regular thing so changing the format to make it look better on the few occasions when we are down to six lads doesn’t make sense. 

a) yet at every restructuring proposal we keep being being told there aren't enough riders,
b) It is too regular, - teams are starting the season off with R/Rs. . . on both sides of a match. No injuries there yet.

[HGould]

Swings and roundabouts imho - the concept was that th 3rd Tier this season was going to be more about "Development" and that's why the Brummies moved up as Management thought product would be so diluted it could not pay.

At the 11th hour a 6 man 32 point limit was scrapped (I know that's what Brum were expecting) and 7 man and 36 brought in.

You now have a bigger span than before in terms of ability - Kemp / Flint / Brennan / Clegg at top down to some very good youngsters but some may be not quite ready yet.

That will lessen spectacle in my opinion

Probably needs a 3 year cap on riders who average over 8 points per meeting for 2-3 years as they need to move up and not stagnate - what is Clegg still going in that League??...and Kemp/Brennan/Wood/Bickley/Flint etc should not be in that League next season if they cement themselves in CL and on to PL...

Looks  a top heavy League to me and hopefully that does not affect other clubs.

I think Kent need to be looking at CL or PL and really looking forwards to going there tomorrow as previous 2 visits with Brummies have been mired in controversy, curfews , and not great crowds (600-700), based on what Kent seem to have most weeks.  Not the easiest place to get to on a Monday (excluding Bank Holidays) so I hope they ultimately get Saturday option.

 

[ouch]

3 hours ago, britmet said:

a) yet at every restructuring proposal we keep being being told there aren't enough riders,
b) It is too regular, - teams are starting the season off with R/Rs. . . on both sides of a match. No injuries there yet.

I can only speak about the Colts fixture that was referred to in the original post, that only had one R/R for the injured Paul Bowen. He was there with his kevlars on, so maybe he was hoping to give it a go despite false optimism. 

Anyway due to there being lads left without a team place this year we are bringing in Kean Dicken for our next match. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by ouch

[IronScorpion]

2 hours ago, HGould said:

Swings and roundabouts imho - the concept was that th 3rd Tier this season was going to be more about "Development" and that's why the Brummies moved up as Management thought product would be so diluted it could not pay.

At the 11th hour a 6 man 32 point limit was scrapped (I know that's what Brum were expecting) and 7 man and 36 brought in.

You now have a bigger span than before in terms of ability - Kemp / Flint / Brennan / Clegg at top down to some very good youngsters but some may be not quite ready yet.

That will lessen spectacle in my opinion

Probably needs a 3 year cap on riders who average over 8 points per meeting for 2-3 years as they need to move up and not stagnate - what is Clegg still going in that League??...and Kemp/Brennan/Wood/Bickley/Flint etc should not be in that League next season if they cement themselves in CL and on to PL...

Looks  a top heavy League to me and hopefully that does not affect other clubs.

I think Kent need to be looking at CL or PL and really looking forwards to going there tomorrow as previous 2 visits with Brummies have been mired in controversy, curfews , and not great crowds (600-700), based on what Kent seem to have most weeks.  Not the easiest place to get to on a Monday (excluding Bank Holidays) so I hope they ultimately get Saturday option.

 

You have to be wary that there is a big span of riders ability in the CL with 2 pointers at no6 & riding against no1's. Cook, Schlein, King, Kennett, Lawson, Wells, Nicholls, S Worrall against Flint, Brennan, Wood, Bickley, Phillips, Kinsley, Bailey, Ruddick, Thomas, Rowe Atkins. These lower riders still need NL to develop as some are only in their 2nd year of league racing.

I do agree on your cap on riders that have been at the top in NL for a few years but it should, also, apply in the CL. Top riders in the CL over a few years should be doing PL & a European league.

[GWC]

Those of us who have long memories in this sport will have been supporting a lower league club in the full knowledge that any rider developed to a certain standard was going to move up.

It would have been interesting had Rye House Lakeside and Workington survived to run again this season where all the riders would have come from.

[2ndbendbeerhut]

Mildenhall will use Matt Marson for Bebee I've heard.....

[brianbuck]

I have never liked rider-replacement - but it is infinitely preferable to guest riders, and both have become easy options in a variety of circumstances which would never be tolerated in any other well-run professional sport. The excuse of "not enough riders" just doesn't wash - the promoters themselves have created this situation by allowing so many riders to ride for more than one team - a thoughtlessly pointless rule which has delivered no benefits whatsoever and has only created a scenario of some riders being able to double their earnings at the expense of fellow riders whom they have denied the chance to earn anything at all. So many riders now seem to consider it a God-given right that they can ride for two teams so there is absolutely no chance of this daft and embarrassing rule ever being rescinded - the riders just wouldn't stand for it.

Apart from 30 or so riders being deprived of a team place because 30 of their colleagues MUST have two teams, the knock-on effect has been to force the better National League riders to stay in the National League instead of progressing upwards as should be the case. Understandably, many of them will take the view that why should they not pick up more cash from scoring a dozen or more points per meeting as a National League rider when the alternative is only scoring 2/3 and earning peanuts in a higher league and always being in danger of the chop at the same time?

Perhaps one day (the day that will convince me that the age of miracles has not passed) speedway will re-structure itself with properly defined teams in each division, and one man-one-team, with promoters forced to develop their own extra riders for use when a team man in injured, with no guests and no rider-replacement. Every other sport does this - and supporters accept that injuries and loss of form are all part and parcel of their particular sport - so why should promoters think that speedway must be so different?

[britmet]

17 hours ago, brianbuck said:

I have never liked rider-replacement - but it is infinitely preferable to guest riders, and both have become easy options in a variety of circumstances which would never be tolerated in any other well-run professional sport. The excuse of "not enough riders" just doesn't wash - the promoters themselves have created this situation by allowing so many riders to ride for more than one team - a thoughtlessly pointless rule which has delivered no benefits whatsoever and has only created a scenario of some riders being able to double their earnings at the expense of fellow riders whom they have denied the chance to earn anything at all. So many riders now seem to consider it a God-given right that they can ride for two teams so there is absolutely no chance of this daft and embarrassing rule ever being rescinded - the riders just wouldn't stand for it.

Apart from 30 or so riders being deprived of a team place because 30 of their colleagues MUST have two teams, the knock-on effect has been to force the better National League riders to stay in the National League instead of progressing upwards as should be the case. Understandably, many of them will take the view that why should they not pick up more cash from scoring a dozen or more points per meeting as a National League rider when the alternative is only scoring 2/3 and earning peanuts in a higher league and always being in danger of the chop at the same time?

Perhaps one day (the day that will convince me that the age of miracles has not passed) speedway will re-structure itself with properly defined teams in each division, and one man-one-team, with promoters forced to develop their own extra riders for use when a team man in injured, with no guests and no rider-replacement. Every other sport does this - and supporters accept that injuries and loss of form are all part and parcel of their particular sport - so why should promoters think that speedway must be so different?

Totally agree with everything that is said above.
The 'sport' is continuing in its downward spiral !

[StevePark]

20 hours ago, GWC said:

Those of us who have long memories in this sport will have been supporting a lower league club in the full knowledge that any rider developed to a certain standard was going to move up.

It would have been interesting had Rye House Lakeside and Workington survived to run again this season where all the riders would have come from.

Workington had already announce their seven riders - before then announcing they weren't going to run, don't forget.

[Ben91]

20 hours ago, GWC said:

Those of us who have long memories in this sport will have been supporting a lower league club in the full knowledge that any rider developed to a certain standard was going to move up.

It would have been interesting had Rye House Lakeside and Workington survived to run again this season where all the riders would have come from.

Workington had a team signed up already. The other sides would have found riders. There’s plenty of them out there. 

[Binman]

On 4/21/2019 at 11:45 AM, ouch said:

I can only speak about the Colts fixture that was referred to in the original post, that only had one R/R for the injured Paul Bowen. He was there with his kevlars on, so maybe he was hoping to give it a go despite false optimism. 

Anyway due to there being lads left without a team place this year we are bringing in Kean Dicken for our next match. 

RR today 

[JaFool]

On 4/19/2019 at 7:01 PM, Binman said:

Two national league meetings today both using RR sorry this is a development league clubs should use a unattached rider to fill the place. 

Despite the injection of the 2.00 kids, 10% of the NL is still made up by 30 somethings & tired old faces that have been knocking around this league for a decade & a half.

 

Ledwith 47, Wallinger 35, Priest 33, Wilson 33, Ayres 32, Halsey 30, Campos 29, Widman 29 etc.