mikebv Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 9 hours ago, chunky said: He needs to win at least 10 more World Championships to break into the top 50. Still, it is so easy to win the GP series - but only for Woffinden, and not everybody else... As you say... It must have been so much more difficult to win World Titles in the Seventies and Eighties with around a third of the field from a much less progressive and heavily restricted, Eastern Europe.... Many of whom nicely helping fill the bottom five finishing positions.. ONE of them actually won the thing ONCE showing how good they were...! Getting to the Final was probably harder than winning it for many of the riders... Nowadays the best riders in the world ride against each other in every round, and any rider just outside the top echelon gets their opportunity to join in via the very high standard GP Challenge. (If they are good enough).. Winning any season long sporting competition, regardless of what sport, means you are 'the best' out there.. To do it regularly, in any era, means you are one of the 'very best' of all time.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 9 hours ago, mickthemuppet said: The world championship today is a closed shop and only so many riders can take part in it Possibly about 40. Going back to the early 1950's it was open to all riders which is not the case today.I remember one year there was 243 entries and that was in the UK alone. Under today's system a rider like Jack Young who was a 2nd division rider became world champion and under today's system would not be allowed entry It.s a shame that the GP riders today are being paid a pittance for the skills and any profits earnt from the GP's does not come back to the grass roots of Speedway. I wonder who sold Speedway down the drain I don't understand your reasoning. Under todays system Jack Young might well have been nominated if he done well in the Aussie Championships or whatever the Australian federation consider for the qualifiers.It has nothing to do with which league he rides in I do agree a rider who has a great season would have to wait for the next year if he wasn't already in. But I don't think the strength of the old was that any rider, no matter what level had a chance to enter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, mickthemuppet said: The world championship today is a closed shop and only so many riders can take part in it Possibly about 40. Going back to the early 1950's it was open to all riders which is not the case today.I remember one year there was 243 entries and that was in the UK alone. Under today's system a rider like Jack Young who was a 2nd division rider became world champion and under today's system would not be allowed entry It.s a shame that the GP riders today are being paid a pittance for the skills and any profits earnt from the GP's does not come back to the grass roots of Speedway. I wonder who sold Speedway down the drain Jack Young was top qualifier in 1950 (i.e one year before he was World Champion), which suggests he would have won the 1950 Grand Prix challenge and therefore qualified for the 1951 Grand Prix series. PS Just checked there are currently 64 riders in the international stages of qualifying. And many countries use the results of national championships, etc, to determine who goes into the qualifiers. It's not a closed shop. If you're good enough, you get into it pretty quickly, as Emil did at the age of 19. Edited April 17, 2019 by lucifer sam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Not only that, but he finished 8th in the world final. If he finished 8th in a GP series he would automatically be in the next season. All this talk of Jack Young is bunkum!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 The other point around this era is that Graham Warren was the dominant force in 1950, but fell in one race at Wembley while chasing Freddie Williams. He won his other four outings to finish in third place on 12 points. Given a GP series, the favourite to win would have been Warren. The old style World Championship and current GP series were/are BOTH very tough to win. But, under the GP system, the top rider in the world is more likely to end up as the World Champion. Although the cream normally rose to the top in World Finals as well. Both systems have their merits. I miss the trips to the old one-off finals, but at the same time, I appreciate being able to see a number of Grand Prix rounds on the TV throughout the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) The discussion has been done to death, but as you say there are national qualification meetings. Denmark host their meeting in a few days at Outrup. Just the British have done away with them. It was their decision, not the FIM and it is a decision probably more to do with hardly anyone wanting to host a Conference Standard quali and all the other meetings on the way....they just lost money the same as test meetings. If promoters thought there was a demand they would host such meetings I would guess And big news is that Nicki P has decided not to enter the Danish quali for the GP’s Edited April 17, 2019 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, iris123 said: The discussion has been done to death, but as you say there are national qualification meetings. Denmark host their meeting in a few days at Outrup. Just the British have done away with them. It was their decision, not the FIM and it is a decision probably more to do with hardly anyone wanting to host a Conference Standard quali and all the other meetings on the way....they just lost money the same as test meetings. If promoters thought there was a demand they would host such meetings I would guess And big news is that Nicki P has decided not to enter the Danish quali for the GP’s I would agree as has the analysis of Tai Woffinden and "who's best" and comparing eras etc etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 13 hours ago, chunky said: Really? I read on here that he wouldn't have been good enough to even get in the 1972 Belle Vue team... Steve The Aces of 1972 had a good spread of talent across the team who performed in depth v other sides in that year. However, at that time only Mauger was world class and if it was today he would be the only rider from that team who would be in the GP's (Note:he was the only "Ace" who made it past the British final with PC (the only other Ace there) finishing 14th on 3 pts, . Woffinden (given all things being equal) would have easily made the Aces team as like it or not, he is (and would have been then) worlds class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 21 hours ago, 1 valve said: The Aces of 1972 had a good spread of talent across the team who performed in depth v other sides in that year. However, at that time only Mauger was world class and if it was today he would be the only rider from that team who would be in the GP's (Note:he was the only "Ace" who made it past the British final with PC (the only other Ace there) finishing 14th on 3 pts, . Woffinden (given all things being equal) would have easily made the Aces team as like it or not, he is (and would have been then) worlds class. My first year of speedway and Belle Vue visiting Oxford was a highlight that I shall never forget...especially when Garry Middleton had an off-track argument with the character 'Soldier Boy' who was there supporting Aces' guest Ray Wilson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpandroid Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 Blah blah effin blah the good old days, it's a thread about the great Tai Woffinden in the now, today and the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 2:27 AM, mikebv said: You have been obviously too convincing.... Meaning some must agree.... I think in old money it's a whoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 9:54 AM, 1 valve said: The Aces of 1972 had a good spread of talent across the team who performed in depth v other sides in that year. However, at that time only Mauger was world class and if it was today he would be the only rider from that team who would be in the GP's (Note:he was the only "Ace" who made it past the British final with PC (the only other Ace there) finishing 14th on 3 pts, . Woffinden (given all things being equal) would have easily made the Aces team as like it or not, he is (and would have been then) worlds class. Still can't see woffy making the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 52 minutes ago, orion said: Still can't see woffy making the team Perhaps you should take those dark glasses off, they restricting your vision. i not a woffy fan, but I do reckon he would have loved Hyde Road track and been as good as anyone there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said: Perhaps you should take those dark glasses off, they restricting your vision. i not a woffy fan, but I do reckon he would have loved Hyde Road track and been as good as anyone there. You are spot on especially as the NSS is based on the old Hyde Road track and to prove the point, the last time Woffy rode there he made quite a good fist of it v some pretty good competition in the speedway of nations with enough time in hand to help out his younger team mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, 1 valve said: You are spot on especially as the NSS is based on the old Hyde Road track and to prove the point, the last time Woffy rode there he made quite a good fist of it v some pretty good competition in the speedway of nations with enough time in hand to help out his younger team mate. Nonsense, were you there in 1976 or not? Russ Hodgson, world class. Legend. Wow, Chris Turner, Praestbro, world beaters, levels, different, skill, no tuning, inside outside, I was there, were you, I'll spark you. Woffinden, talented, yes, great, maybe, better than Hindle, no chance, 75 I saw it, did you? Wow, Tyrer, would he beat him, doubt it, maybe, Rob Maxfield genius. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Nonsense, were you there in 1976 or not? Russ Hodgson, world class. Legend. Wow, Chris Turner, Praestbro, world beaters, levels, different, skill, no tuning, inside outside, I was there, were you, I'll spark you. Woffinden, talented, yes, great, maybe, better than Hindle, no chance, 75 I saw it, did you? Wow, Tyrer, would he beat him, doubt it, maybe, Rob Maxfield genius. Must be the biggest wind up of the year so far. and yes I was there in the 70's, almost every week - yep, speedway every week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 hours ago, 1 valve said: You are spot on especially as the NSS is based on the old Hyde Road track and to prove the point, the last time Woffy rode there he made quite a good fist of it v some pretty good competition in the speedway of nations with enough time in hand to help out his younger team mate. How can you talk about the NSS and Hyde Road at the same time ? ...all tracks were better in the old days as you needed much more skill .Lets be honest the NSS has not even got a Fun fair . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said: Must be the biggest wind up of the year so far. and yes I was there in the 70's, almost every week - yep, speedway every week! I think this thread should just be retitled "Whoosh"... Amazing how so many have such short memories! Sorry, but that is directed at you. OveFundinFan... Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, orion said: How can you talk about the NSS and Hyde Road at the same time ? ...all tracks were better in the old days as you needed much more skill .Lets be honest the NSS has not even got a Fun fair . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 41 minutes ago, chunky said: I think this thread should just be retitled "Whoosh"... Amazing how so many have such short memories! Sorry, but that is directed at you. OveFundinFan... Steve Thats gone above me..... explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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