only way

[speedy bill]

Speedway in this country must stop being dictated to by Poland.If it is to survive,the best race nights for family's are Friday and Saturday with Sunday early starts.  My team Belle Vue have never had Monday as a regular race night in all the years i have followed them.Just tell all riders to decide were they want to ride Poland or Britain so we can still have speedway there will be a watered down league standard because riders will have to be moved up into higher leagues to fill any gaps.But i would rather have that situation than no speedway.Three clubs have gone from last year how many more from this year,we cant let the current situation carry on or soon there wont be any clubs left.

[Trees]

9 hours ago, speedy bill said:

Speedway in this country must stop being dictated to by Poland.If it is to survive,the best race nights for family's are Friday and Saturday with Sunday early starts.  My team Belle Vue have never had Monday as a regular race night in all the years i have followed them.Just tell all riders to decide were they want to ride Poland or Britain so we can still have speedway there will be a watered down league standard because riders will have to be moved up into higher leagues to fill any gaps.But i would rather have that situation than no speedway.Three clubs have gone from last year how many more from this year,we cant let the current situation carry on or soon there wont be any clubs left.

This is the case for the Championship, they should all be fine! But the Premiership not so, King's Lynn are in the same boat, never ridden on a Monday but that's our race day this year.  There will be no clashes with Poland/Sweden/Denmark but we certainly haven't had any top guys coming back to race here, we have just lost another.  I don't think Buster would ever want speedway back on a Saturday night at Lynn because of all the stock car meetings so it's week day or not at all. Different for Belle Vue of course unless the pitch has Saturday matches? 

[MattK]

10 hours ago, speedy bill said:

Speedway in this country must stop being dictated to by Poland.If it is to survive,the best race nights for family's are Friday and Saturday with Sunday early starts.  My team Belle Vue have never had Monday as a regular race night in all the years i have followed them.Just tell all riders to decide were they want to ride Poland or Britain so we can still have speedway there will be a watered down league standard because riders will have to be moved up into higher leagues to fill any gaps.But i would rather have that situation than no speedway.

Over the last decade the Elite League/Premiership has significantly weakened the product on offer and as a consequence crowds have dwindled. Therefore, the evidence suggests that a "watered down" league will only hasten the demise.

10 hours ago, speedy bill said:

Three clubs have gone from last year how many more from this year,we cant let the current situation carry on or soon there wont be any clubs left.

Three clubs have gone from last year. Of those three, Lakeside rode on Fridays and Workington rode on Saturdays. Therefore I am not sure weekend meetings are the panacea you think they are.

[HGould]

8 minutes ago, MattK said:

Over the last decade the Elite League/Premiership has significantly weakened the product on offer and as a consequence crowds have dwindled. Therefore, the evidence suggests that a "watered down" league will only hasten the demise.

Three clubs have gone from last year. Of those three, Lakeside rode on Fridays and Workington rode on Saturdays. Therefore I am not sure weekend meetings are the panacea you think they are.

There is one main reason Lakeside and Workington closed and it's nothing at all to do with Friday and Saturday's.

The fact they had to ride so many Fixtures in October mostly against each other was a huge factor. The other factor ROB GODFREY - cancelled Lakeside Fixtures in summer as them riding on a Friday stopped him booking Guests for Scunthorpe and cancelled some Workington matches too. The success of those sides unfairly affected them. Had Godfrey not cancelled Lakeside matches at a few days notice they would have ridden fewer Fixtures at Rye House and not lost huge amounts on last few matches there. Also a fact they lost their Track to developers, that would have whatever day they race on.

We absolutely need ONE BIG LEAGUE of 14-16 Teams giving variety and whatever level that finds can and should be marketable until the Polish bubble inevitably bursts and Riders have to accept that "getting paid in UK" is better than not getting paid 5-10x more in Poland...".

Some sides are having a real go at PROMOTING the sport, others are living in denial and negativity.

 

[topsoil]

10 hours ago, speedy bill said:

Speedway in this country must stop being dictated to by Poland.If it is to survive,the best race nights for family's are Friday and Saturday with Sunday early starts.  My team Belle Vue have never had Monday as a regular race night in all the years i have followed them.Just tell all riders to decide were they want to ride Poland or Britain so we can still have speedway there will be a watered down league standard because riders will have to be moved up into higher leagues to fill any gaps.But i would rather have that situation than no speedway.Three clubs have gone from last year how many more from this year,we cant let the current situation carry on or soon there wont be any clubs left.

Good luck with that. Take away all the riders who currently ride in Poland and see what you are left with. And even better luck trying to spread the riders left around enough clubs to make a league.

[topsoil]

2 minutes ago, HGould said:

There is one main reason Lakeside and Workington closed and it's nothing at all to do with Friday and Saturday's.

The fact they had to ride so many Fixtures in October mostly against each other was a huge factor. The other factor ROB GODFREY - cancelled Lakeside Fixtures in summer as them riding on a Friday stopped him booking Guests for Scunthorpe and cancelled some Workington matches too. The success of those sides unfairly affected them. Had Godfrey not cancelled Lakeside matches at a few days notice they would have ridden fewer Fixtures at Rye House and not lost huge amounts on last few matches there. Also a fact they lost their Track to developers, that would have whatever day they race on.

We absolutely need ONE BIG LEAGUE of 14-16 Teams giving variety and whatever level that finds can and should be marketable until the Polish bubble inevitably bursts and Riders have to accept that "getting paid in UK" is better than not getting paid 5-10x more in Poland...".

Some sides are having a real go at PROMOTING the sport, others are living in denial and negativity.

 

This one big league of 14-16 teams, what do the other existing teams do?

[moxey63]

It is numerous things, not just race nights, although I guess that keeps some fans at home. The Speedway Star pre-season edition with all the line-ups, for example, and there is not one single team that would encourage me to shell out £20 to enter a stadium. Reducing prices might help, but promoters are naturally worried about doing this, and so will increase them year upon year to make up for the missing fans and stand the risk of losing more fans who feel it not worth the price anymore. So they combat that by putting up prices again next year. As always, the best hope for speedway's future is for the old supporters to introduce the new ones. I had it done to me, and I introduced my young brother. But, when a new fan is hooked, you have to offer them a product that doesn't have their mates laughing at them.    

Edited April 7, 2019 by moxey63

[orion]

20 hours ago, speedy bill said:

Speedway in this country must stop being dictated to by Poland.If it is to survive,the best race nights for family's are Friday and Saturday with Sunday early starts.  My team Belle Vue have never had Monday as a regular race night in all the years i have followed them.Just tell all riders to decide were they want to ride Poland or Britain so we can still have speedway there will be a watered down league standard because riders will have to be moved up into higher leagues to fill any gaps.But i would rather have that situation than no speedway.Three clubs have gone from last year how many more from this year,we cant let the current situation carry on or soon there wont be any clubs left.

So Belle Vue have never had Monday night as a regular race night in all the years you have followed them ...I trust you suffer from memory loss ? Belle Vue have had Monday night as there race night at the old stadium  from what I remember .

 

 

[mikebv]

10 hours ago, MattK said:

Over the last decade the Elite League/Premiership has significantly weakened the product on offer and as a consequence crowds have dwindled. Therefore, the evidence suggests that a "watered down" league will only hasten the demise.

Three clubs have gone from last year. Of those three, Lakeside rode on Fridays and Workington rode on Saturdays. Therefore I am not sure weekend meetings are the panacea you think they are.

No nights will ever be right given the nonsense that pervades as its operating model..

If the day ever dawns when it sorts itself out, and can run itself as a team sport based on one rider having one team, and can cover absences from squads rather than sharing riders, then weekend has to be the desired times to open..

For Worky running so many meetings in such a short time was the disaster, rather than running on a Saturday, and Lakeside had to vacate the stadium..

There is a reason why Poland run at weekends. The crowds this weekend show it. If they ran on Monday and Thursday's this week the crowds would have been many thousand poorer (even though every superstar on the planet would have ridden)..

Lets be honest, hardly any riders now riding in Britain put 'bums on seats' so you might as well run at weekends to see if non superstars can generate big enough crowds.

Currently 'Superstars' don't bring the crowds in on a Monday, Wednesdays and Thursday's so got to be worth a try..

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by mikebv

[orion]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

No nights will ever be right given the nonsense that pervades as its operating model..

If the day ever dawns when it sorts itself out, and can run itself as a team sport based on one rider having one team, and can cover absences from squads rather than sharing riders, then weekend has to be the desired times to open..

For Worky running so many meetings in such a short time was the disaster, rather than running on a Saturday, and Lakeside had to vacate the stadium..

There is a reason why Poland run at weekends. The crowds this weekend show it. If they ran on Monday and Thursday's this week the crowds would have been many thousand poorer (even though every superstar on the planet would have ridden)..

Lets be honest, hardly any riders now riding in Britain put 'bums on seats' so you might as well run at weekends to see if non superstars can generate big enough crowds.

Currently 'Superstars' don't bring the crowds in on a Monday, Wednesdays and Thursday's so got to be worth a try..

 

As has already said teams who at weekends have done bad gone bust it's hardly made any difference ..it's already been done . Thou it's crystal clear that crowds drop when we make teams weaker people still somehow think it's the way to go ..unreal 

[Aces51]

Monday was our race night in the latter years at the dog track but not by choice, simply because that was what we were offered by our landlord. Crowds were always poor on Monday's and it was why we changed to Friday as soon as we moved to the NSS and before the introduction of FRN's. 

[mikebv]

19 hours ago, orion said:

As has already said teams who at weekends have done bad gone bust it's hardly made any difference ..it's already been done . Thou it's crystal clear that crowds drop when we make teams weaker people still somehow think it's the way to go ..unreal 

Leicester v Somersets crowd on a Saturday night would be worth a review I would suggest. .

Last year it would have had the then World Champ turn up on a Monday night..

This year it won't...

It will be interesting to see if having the World Champ there on a Monday brought in many more than 14 'lesser riders' will on a Saturday....

The Aces crowds didnt seem to have been adversely affected by having no Zagar last year, a then top eight GP rider...

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by mikebv

[orion]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

Leicester v Somersets crowd on a Saturday night would be worth a review I would suggest. .

Last year it would have had the then World Champ turn up on a Monday night..

This year it won't...

It will be interesting to see if having the World Champ there on a Monday brought in many more than 14 'lesser riders' will on a Saturday....

The Aces crowds didnt seem to have been adversely affected by having no Zagar last year, a then top eight GP rider...

 

I thought every Belle vue said the crowds were down .in fact there were pages about it 

[Halifaxtiger]

6 hours ago, Aces51 said:

Monday was our race night in the latter years at the dog track but not by choice, simply because that was what we were offered by our landlord. Crowds were always poor on Monday's and it was why we changed to Friday as soon as we moved to the NSS and before the introduction of FRN's. 

And yet at the fans forum Adrian Smith said that in the school holidays gates on Mondays were bigger than those on Fridays (I was surprised, too). 

I certainly prefer Thursday-Sunday with Mondays being a virtual non starter, and that's just due to work commitments. A late night at the start of the week has prevented me from becoming a Belle Vue season ticket holder (and I suspect I am not alone). It will be very interesting to see what Thursday night attendances are like at the NSS.

Workington were hit hard by the stupid and selfish decision to change their race night but their gates had been poor and they had been losing shed loads for years.  Even if they had been allowed to run on Fridays it would have made little difference to their financial situation at the end of the season. Buxton, too, couldn't make weekends pay, so its not necessarily a cure.

Having said that, moving from weekend racing destroyed Rye House. 

[RS50]

1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

 Buxton, too, couldn't make weekends pay, so its not necessarily a cure.

With Buxton not having track lighting I think weekends were the only option. With Sheffield being so near and switching to Sunday I assume they thought running against them would prove difficult. Possibly Saturday could be a future option for Buxton?

[MattK]

On 4/7/2019 at 7:44 PM, mikebv said:

Lets be honest, hardly any riders now riding in Britain put 'bums on seats' so you might as well run at weekends to see if non superstars can generate big enough crowds.

Currently 'Superstars' don't bring the crowds in on a Monday, Wednesdays and Thursday's so got to be worth a try..

 

That's not true though, is it? Look at the attendances at Premiership clubs who have bigger name riders, compared to Championship clubs who do no. I would say to a team that Premiership have larger crowds, therefore the "star" riders who choose to ride in Britain absolutely do put bums on seats.

The question is whether these top riders provide value for money. Did attendances at Swindon drop by less than they saved on signing Nick Morris as #1 instead of World Champion Jason Doyle? Given the crowds at Swindon last season and the fact they chose to sign Doyle for 2019, it would suggest that the star riders are worth the outlay.

[Daniel Smith]

19 minutes ago, MattK said:

That's not true though, is it? Look at the attendances at Premiership clubs who have bigger name riders, compared to Championship clubs who do no. I would say to a team that Premiership have larger crowds, therefore the "star" riders who choose to ride in Britain absolutely do put bums on seats.

The question is whether these top riders provide value for money. Did attendances at Swindon drop by less than they saved on signing Nick Morris as #1 instead of World Champion Jason Doyle? Given the crowds at Swindon last season and the fact they chose to sign Doyle for 2019, it would suggest that the star riders are worth the outlay.

I'd say it's exactly the same reason why King's Lynn are desperate to hang on to Robert Lambert. Quality rider and a local. Without him, no doubt would hit the attendances pretty hard.

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, MattK said:

That's not true though, is it? Look at the attendances at Premiership clubs who have bigger name riders, compared to Championship clubs who do no. I would say to a team that Premiership have larger crowds, therefore the "star" riders who choose to ride in Britain absolutely do put bums on seats.

The question is whether these top riders provide value for money. Did attendances at Swindon drop by less than they saved on signing Nick Morris as #1 instead of World Champion Jason Doyle? Given the crowds at Swindon last season and the fact they chose to sign Doyle for 2019, it would suggest that the star riders are worth the outlay.

I would suggest the 'natural level' of the attendances you can get determines what league you race in rather than the standard of riders in view...

Somerset and Leicester for example, are for me traditional 2nd tier teams...

Both have recently had a dalliance with the top league and decided that they couldn't justify paying out for a higher level of rider as their crowds didnt increase sufficiently (or maybe even at all), to cover their costs..

Every team has its 'natural level' and it is quite pertinent that teams always need their 'arms twisting' to come up, such is the risk their crowds won't increase, and their lack of belief and confidence that increased crowds will happen...

I actually think the Aces for example would still get 1300 - 1600 or so on a Satuday night charging circa £15,  riding at a '2nd tier' level as that is their 'natural crowd' level..

Clubs such as Poole, KL, Swindon, and Wolverhampton are all for me similar to the Aces in that they will get 'the best crowds in Britain' regardless of whether 'World Class' talent is on show or not, (as long as they are allowed to ride on any night that is best for them)...  

Hence the top tier is the 'natural position' of these teams...

Most teams who average 800 - 1000 are therefore naturally 2nd tier, and regardless of who gets brought in, their crowds will pretty much stay that way I reckon..

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by mikebv

[waytogo28]

17 hours ago, mikebv said:

I actually think the Aces for example would still get 1300 - 1600 or so on a Satuday night charging circa £15,  riding at a '2nd tier' level as that is their 'natural crowd' level..

Clubs such as Poole, KL, Swindon, and Wolverhampton are all for me similar to the Aces in that they will get 'the best crowds in Britain' regardless of whether 'World Class' talent is on show or not, (as long as they are allowed to ride on any night that is best for them)...  

Hence the top tier is the 'natural position' of these teams...

Most teams who average 800 - 1000 are therefore naturally 2nd tier, and regardless of who gets brought in, their crowds will pretty much stay that way I reckon..

 

Pretty much spot on.

[Pieman72]

The one thing that no one mentioned is the culture in which speedway flourished. Motorbikes were very much part of our culture in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and bikes hurtling around at 70mph without brakes was seen as daring and risky but while it still spectacular the culture is not there to support it. Unfortunately Speedway is now very much a minority sport enjoyed by just a few die hards. It will survive but probably not in it's present state.