Just One Race (or maybe two!)

[Sidney the robin]

6 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I think it was Heat 3 of the BLRC at the old Belle Vue. Three riders - Peter Collins, Chris Morton and Shawn Moran swapping positions in a real close scrap throughout. Unfortunately, it is somewhat misted in my memory after 34 years of time, I just remember it being brilliant to watch.

That was a great race, unfortunately, the meeting not covered on TV or by a local video company.

I have always wanted the 1983 BLRC on dvd i dont think it was televised .Lee got a duck egg first time out got filled in then ended up taking Hans to the cleaners and getting second behind Erik a great meeting.

[Sidney the robin]

2 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Good choice.

I think there was perhaps an even better race in 2001.  Gollob v Hancock v Hamill v Adams, I think it was.  All four lead the race at one point.

A race you should be remember??? The overseas Final Hyde Rd 1983  Andy Grahame, S.Moran, Lee, Phil Collins a great race Phil Collins deservedly ended up winning the meeting.

[lucifer sam]

27 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

A race you should be remember??? The overseas Final Hyde Rd 1983  Andy Grahame, S.Moran, Lee, Phil Collins a great race Phil Collins deservedly ended up winning the meeting.

Wasn't there for that one, Sid.  Did the Overseas at White City in '81 and '82.

Rather memorable race in the '82 event, featuring Penhall, Sigalos, Moran and Moran.

I think my dad told me not to make a fuss as we were leaving, because I was one extremely unhappy 9-year-old after the crowd booed Penhall, who was my childhood hero.

Edited February 22, 2019 by lucifer sam

[Sidney the robin]

12 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Wasn't there for that one, Sid.  Did the Overseas at White City in '81 and '82.

Rather memorable race in the '82 event, featuring Penhall, Sigalos, Moran and Moran.

I think my dad told me not to make a fuss as we were leaving, because I was one extremely unhappy 9-year-old after the crowd booed Penhall, who was my childhood hero.

I think the fans reaction really shook Bruce up after that race  Sam.Was it cheating or was it gamesmanship who knows i really liked White City but it was sometimes slick though.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[chunky]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

1999 Gollob v Nilsen what a race, how Gollob avoided going through the fence on the last two bends god knows.

That was the greatest single move I have ever seen in speedway. Nilsen was going flat out, and Gollob went inside him like he was standing still. Then, to totally miss the turn, and cut back inside the way he did...

Steve

[lucifer sam]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

I think the fans reaction really shook Bruce up after that race  Sam.Was it cheating or was it gamesmanship who knows i really liked White City but it was sometimes slick though.

Yes, I don't think he expected it.  In the end, he was caught out by wanting to entertain.  Rather than simply feigning an engine failure, he pulled the wheelies. 

Dave Jessup and Larry Ross did something similar 12 months earlier... without the wheelies.  Hardly a murmur from the crowd, although an inquiring young Lucifer Sam did ask my dad what was going on.  I think that's what annoyed so much - the inconsistency.  DJ and Ross were allowed to do it, but Penhall does it and he's suddenly Public Enemy No 1.

White City wasn't the best track, but it was less than a hour from us and where we tended to go for big meetings.  There was always memorable going on - Penhall and Carter locking together in '81; Penhall throwing Heat 19 in 82; Sigalos v Nielsen in both the 1982 British Open and 1983 ICF (run-off between the two in one, and controversy in the second).

[chunky]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

I think the fans reaction really shook Bruce up after that race  Sam.Was it cheating or was it gamesmanship who knows i really liked White City but it was sometimes slick though.

Not cheating; team-riding... Not the first time it happened, and won't be the last, but nobody complains when the Brits do it.

Steve

[Vince]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Did Briggo leave a gap Vince ?? or was Bernie to hard?? and what does your gut feeling tell you would Briggo of gone on and been World champ in 1972.?

I was 11, Briggo was local to us and I'd met him a few times so as far as I was concerned Persson was the devil himself and a no hoper who knocked off the vice messiah (Mauger was the only true Messiah in my eyes) and robbed him of a certain title!

In retrospect I will allow that it was a racing incident although Persson was mostly at fault and given that he finished 2nd in the meeting (if my memory is to be relied upon) was a long way from a no hoper and actually a very good but hard rider. Wembley was such a poor track to decide a World Championship that such passes were necessary I think. A Wembley final was a fantastic occasion though and we used to have two coaches go from our small village. Nowadays the village has doubled in size but you couldn't fill a mini bus with Speedway fans.

Briggo had every chance of winning another title that night, he could usually pull it out at the big meetings but we'll never know.

[BWitcher]

On 2/18/2019 at 6:09 AM, steve roberts said:

Interetsing thread this one. What's developing in to a bore on another thread is the insistance that riders be judged upon how many times he wins a race.

Wrong again.

The claim was that winning races has nothing to do with judging how GOOD a rider is. I correctly stated that is ridiculous. It was never about most memorable, nor most entertaining. They are completely different conversations as was explained to you, but rather than act like an adult and accept you got the wrong end of the stick you try to drag it on.

Now as you say, most memorable riders and races IS completely different...

One that stands out is a run off between Ryan Sullivan and Mikael Karlsson (Max) at Peterborough. Passing and repassing and very hard riding

Another from the other end of the Spectrum was Hynek Stichauer winning his first race for Wolves, again at Peterborough, producing a great passing move and then hanging on to the end. I remember going crazy in the main stand much to the chagrin of the Boro fans.

There are of course many, many races that could list, even more if you include those seen on TV.

For sheer atmosphere alone (by modern standards), as well as a stunning finish, Chris Harris winning the British GP with his last bend pass on Hancock has to be up there.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BWitcher

[Sidney the robin]

57 minutes ago, chunky said:

That was the greatest single move I have ever seen in speedway. Nilsen was going flat out, and Gollob went inside him like he was standing still. Then, to totally miss the turn, and cut back inside the way he did...

Steve

Nilsen rode a perfect race Steve but was just outwitted,  Gollob was a special talent.

[Sidney the robin]

44 minutes ago, Vince said:

I was 11, Briggo was local to us and I'd met him a few times so as far as I was concerned Persson was the devil himself and a no hoper who knocked off the vice messiah (Mauger was the only true Messiah in my eyes) and robbed him of a certain title!

In retrospect I will allow that it was a racing incident although Persson was mostly at fault and given that he finished 2nd in the meeting (if my memory is to be relied upon) was a long way from a no hoper and actually a very good but hard rider. Wembley was such a poor track to decide a World Championship that such passes were necessary I think. A Wembley final was a fantastic occasion though and we used to have two coaches go from our small village. Nowadays the village has doubled in size but you couldn't fill a mini bus with Speedway fans.

Briggo had every chance of winning another title that night, he could usually pull it out at the big meetings but we'll never know.

Nothing beats Wembley for me the atmosphere  was electric looking back you are right Vince  some of the racing was bang average.The dusty 1975 final was a farce but Olsen was majestic on the night .And the 81 Penhall final was pretty good Len Silver did produce a good track that night Knudsen was classy come of age that night.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

Not cheating; team-riding... Not the first time it happened, and won't be the last, but nobody complains when the Brits do it.

Steve

Or Ole in 1982 Vetlanda with Bo/Erik.

[Gavan]

My favourite or should i say memorable races will always involve Mark Loram

1997 British Final Run off................stands to reason why this race should be up there amongst the best if not the best run off ever...and a couple of years later they did it again in the heats this time

1999 Swedish Grand Prix............Mark was the best in the world possibly of all time, at getting his wheels in line and making long straights, Billy Hamill always used to say he never knew how to stop Mark from making that long run up the inside......this gp final was the best example , stalking Nilsen before twice having to make the pass.

2001 Polish league match.........Go find this on You Tube... Mark v the Gollob brothers , Tomasz looking for Mark and basically almost causing a crash twice and making Mark shut off abruptly.... before Mark split them going into the last lap and then passing Jacek down the back straight......Mark rarely showed emotion but his gesture crossing the line and then his shake of the head on the slow down lap sort of gave away his displeasure at Tomasz's antics

[chunky]

BWitcher mentioned Peterborough, and thinking about it, it is surprising that nobody has mentioned that fantastic race from the 1983 National League Fours!

Martin Scarisbrick, Dave Perks, and Richard Knight battled it out all over the track for four laps, with Scarisbrick finally getting the win.

Steve

[NeilWatson]

54 minutes ago, chunky said:

BWitcher mentioned Peterborough, and thinking about it, it is surprising that nobody has mentioned that fantastic race from the 1983 National League Fours!

Martin Scarisbrick, Dave Perks, and Richard Knight battled it out all over the track for four laps, with Scarisbrick finally getting the win.

Steve

https://youtu.be/YjG_LavdVpI

Note the dapper start-line assistant in blue!

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, Gavan said:

My favourite or should i say memorable races will always involve Mark Loram

1997 British Final Run off................stands to reason why this race should be up there amongst the best if not the best run off ever...and a couple of years later they did it again in the heats this time

1999 Swedish Grand Prix............Mark was the best in the world possibly of all time, at getting his wheels in line and making long straights, Billy Hamill always used to say he never knew how to stop Mark from making that long run up the inside......this gp final was the best example , stalking Nilsen before twice having to make the pass.

2001 Polish league match.........Go find this on You Tube... Mark v the Gollob brothers , Tomasz looking for Mark and basically almost causing a crash twice and making Mark shut off abruptly.... before Mark split them going into the last lap and then passing Jacek down the back straight......Mark rarely showed emotion but his gesture crossing the line and then his shake of the head on the slow down lap sort of gave away his displeasure at Tomasz's antics

Did you ever think Gavan Mark would be a world champ?  when you have a affinity with a rider it is special .I did with a lower/ Lesser rider but when they do well it is great Loram god he was exciting to watch he put bums on seats.

[steve roberts]

5 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Wrong again.

The claim was that winning races has nothing to do with judging how GOOD a rider is. I correctly stated that is ridiculous. It was never about most memorable, nor most entertaining. They are completely different conversations as was explained to you, but rather than act like an adult and accept you got the wrong end of the stick you try to drag it on.

Now as you say, most memorable riders and races IS completely different...

One that stands out is a run off between Ryan Sullivan and Mikael Karlsson (Max) at Peterborough. Passing and repassing and very hard riding

Another from the other end of the Spectrum was Hynek Stichauer winning his first race for Wolves, again at Peterborough, producing a great passing move and then hanging on to the end. I remember going crazy in the main stand much to the chagrin of the Boro fans.

There are of course many, many races that could list, even more if you include those seen on TV.

For sheer atmosphere alone (by modern standards), as well as a stunning finish, Chris Harris winning the British GP with his last bend pass on Hancock has to be up there.

 ...dragging things on is a bit rich coming from you as you constantly follow that course as proven on other threads.

[lucifer sam]

Three races from the same night, with the same result.  Carl Blackbird beat Hans Nielsen from behind three times.  At Cowley. In 1986.  The year that Hans won his first World Championship, and recorded a 11.83 average from BL matches.

[steve roberts]

3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Three races from the same night, with the same result.  Carl Blackbird beat Hans Nielsen from behind three times.  At Cowley. In 1986.  The year that Hans won his first World Championship, and recorded a 11.83 average from BL matches.

Yes I was there Rob...the occasion that all of Carl's 'stars were aligned'!

[Sidney the robin]

Erik and Tommy had there successe's  against Nielsen  at Cowley Blackbird/!Thorp/ Doncaster won the odd race here and there otherwise Hans took the p...,     great rider no doubt a great advert for  speedway as well.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Sidney the robin