Rob Godfrey interview in Speedway Star

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, orion said:

That is not the point he is making ..Thou racing is good it's not  made the crowds come in ...it one of biggest myths about crowds and good racing . People need to feel  like the match matters ..the problem is to most that feeling has gone ..

Another myth is about racing being better in the old days ..it never was, most of the time is was poor just like today . When you have crowds and big names it always felt like the racing was better but really most the time it was gate and go .

 

It was not gate and go with Briggs,Ashby,,Crump (snr) not in my experience anyway all of them could pass and had to the tracks then you could pass consistently.

[E I Addio]

17 minutes ago, orion said:

The standard of riders was the racing was not ...Speedway was much better in the 70's and 80's no doubt about it but it was because of the whole event .No good going  on about where you watched speedway the bottom line is no matter what  era most of the  races are  won from the gate ..

So if we say, in general terms, the quality of the racing is roughly the same as it's always been, some good meetings, some not so good, then as long as there are not too many bad meetings, we can say it's not the quality of the racing that  turns people away. Obviously there are a lot more ways to spend your leisure time today than there were 30 or 40 years ago, and less and less people want to stand around in stadiums all evening because it's not just Speedwáy that has suffered. Dog racing has suffered heavily and stick cars are not doing as well as they used to.

So if we say that is not the on track action that had turned fans away, at least not in great numbers, it has to be the off track issues like presentation and the cheating which to my mind is a major factor , even though it was probably always there to a point. If it is the off track issues that are the problem then that falls back in the lap of the BSPA. Unless and until the likes of Godfrey and Chapman take a long look at themselves and take their share of responsibility, nothing will change.

[TonyMac]

34 minutes ago, orion said:

The standard of riders was the racing was not ...Speedway was much better in the 70's and 80's no doubt about it but it was because of the whole event .No good going  on about where you watched speedway the bottom line is no matter what  era most of the  races are  won from the gate ..

Then let's agree to disagree.

Forget atmosphere, crowd levels, publicity, sponsors, national media coverage, relative lack of counter-attractions, and all the other things that the 70s and 80s had going for them, I will never accept that the GENERAL standard of racing in British speedway today is superior, or even close to being on a par with, what it was in the 70s and 80s. They really are planets apart. It's not even an argument.

You could argue that the wider availability of good quality shale very much helped contribute to the entertainment value back in the day. But whatever it was, BL and NL racing, the actual excitement factor, was far superior - IN GENERAL - than what the Elite & Championship leagues produce today. End of.

Edited February 10, 2019 by tmc

[orion]

3 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

So if we say, in general terms, the quality of the racing is roughly the same as it's always been, some good meetings, some not so good, then as long as there are not too many bad meetings, we can say it's not the quality of the racing that  turns people away. Obviously there are a lot more ways to spend your leisure time today than there were 30 or 40 years ago, and less and less people want to stand around in stadiums all evening because it's not just Speedwáy that has suffered. Dog racing has suffered heavily and stick cars are not doing as well as they used to.

So if we say that is not the on track action that had turned fans away, at least not in great numbers, it has to be the off track issues like presentation and the cheating which to my mind is a major factor , even though it was probably always there to a point. If it is the off track issues that are the problem then that falls back in the lap of the BSPA. Unless and until the likes of Godfrey and Chapman take a long look at themselves and take their share of responsibility, nothing will change.

Yea there  is a million factors ..for me it's the lack caring about the match / result when I go ..it used to matter so much to so many people ..I think like you and a lot people I think it's a sport in the uk that is dead in the water  and can't be saved now . we are  losing 3 to 4 clubs a year . If speedway was a animal it would be a endangered species

[Sidney the robin]

14 minutes ago, tmc said:

Then let's agree to disagree.

Forget atmosphere, crowd levels, publicity, sponsors, national media coverage and all the other things that the 70s and 80s had going for them, I will never accept that the GENERAL standard of racing in British speefway today is superior, or even close to being on a par with. what it was in the 70s and 80s. They really are planets apart. It's not even an argument.

The racing then was different most sides had a In/out no1 some often had three good heat  leaders and then the BL was the best.Also the tracks were  more varied and they were all a different kind of test. You could do Wimbledon, on a Thursday,  Hackney on a Friday and then the pacy Hyde Rd Belle Vue on a Saturday all different tests for a rider.Dont get me wrong i still love my speedway but not to the degree i used to.

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[orion]

18 minutes ago, tmc said:

Then let's agree to disagree.

Forget atmosphere, crowd levels, publicity, sponsors, national media coverage, relative lack of counter-attractions, and all the other things that the 70s and 80s had going for them, I will never accept that the GENERAL standard of racing in British speedway today is superior, or even close to being on a par with, what it was in the 70s and 80s. They really are planets apart. It's not even an argument.

You could argue that the wider availability of good quality shale very much helped contribute to the entertainment value back in the day. But whatever it was, BL and NL racing, the actual excitement factor, was far superior - IN GENERAL - than what the Elite & Championship leagues produce today. End of.

The excitement factor was far superior ..the racing was not . The one thing I have always noticed is how people forget about poor racing in the old days  .As I said misty eyes 

Edited February 10, 2019 by orion

[moxey63]

You can have the most attractive girlfriend in the world, but if you believe she's not entirely faithful, what fun is there. 

Speedway in the old days may or may not have been as exciting, but there was a belief that it was real, with real characters and an attachment between fans and teams.

Nowadays, even the best races may be between two opponents racing later that evening for the same team.

That is the problem. 

No loyalty.

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by moxey63

[tyler42]

3 minutes ago, orion said:

The excitement factor was far superior ..the racing was not . The one thing I have always noticed is how people forget about poor racing in the old days  .As I said misty eyes 

Would you not agree, that the standard has dropped quite a bit though? Not at GP level or Poland and Sweden. Both leagues seem to be of high standard.

I'm not sure why, but if you look at the British Final for example. It's been turned on its head. You must remember how hard that meeting once was. For a 2nd Division rider to make it was a truly great achievement. Unfortunately now. The field is made up of 2nd division riders. Yes doubling up is a factor for this, but Some of the riders appearing in the final would not have made it past the first qualifying round! Never mind make the final!

[orion]

5 minutes ago, tyler42 said:

Would you not agree, that the standard has dropped quite a bit though? Not at GP level or Poland and Sweden. Both leagues seem to be of high standard.

I'm not sure why, but if you look at the British Final for example. It's been turned on its head. You must remember how hard that meeting once was. For a 2nd Division rider to make it was a truly great achievement. Unfortunately now. The field is made up of 2nd division riders. Yes doubling up is a factor for this, but Some of the riders appearing in the final would not have made it past the first qualifying round! Never mind make the final!

No argument about standard etc dropping that is a given ..that go's back to my point about no one caring ..look at Woffy he  won't even ride in it 

[mikebv]

Reading the RG comments you couldn't help but get the impression of someone 'stating the bleedin' obvious'! 

It's almost like a summary of the past five to ten years on here!!

However you then read comments around the fact that 'all promoters now realise what needs to be done' and you then think (amazingly),  that maybe there have been some promoters over the past five to ten years who must have thought it was all going 'OK'!

Maybe there now is a true realism of actually where the sport currently sits amongst the rest of the sports in Britiain and realistic plans will be put in place going forward?

But you then read comments around guests for example, where they get dismissed as an almost 'inevitably', without even a thought to eradicate something that destroys any credibility the sport has, and you think that maybe after all that the reality will be more of 'same old, same old'..

He did mention being in the 'last chance saloon' so hopefully there is some real focus as a collective now...

My doubt to be honest though is that as they are the ones who have led the sport to its current position (whilst blindly not seeing the obvious and inevitable conclusion that such a ridiculous operating and business model would bring), then, are they really the ones capable of sorting it all out?

I hope so, but do have my doubts..

Edited February 11, 2019 by mikebv

[Speedtiger]

Spot on post Mikebv. Godfrey is frankly clueless and IMO speedway is beyond the point of NO return and things will sadly only get worse. Chapman, Godfrey and the BSPA have only themselves to blame. A great sport ruined by sheer incompetence.

[speedy bill]

The sooner we forget about the Poles and get back to doing our own thing the better,main thing getting back to our preferred  own race nights. Speedway needs to use Friday and Saturday nights to help bring young family's back with no school the next day ect.You all saw the trouble Rye House got in after moving from Saturday nights,Mondays and Wednesday just wont work getting crowds back.Also there must be better entertainment have plenty of info fed to the fans instead of leaving them stood around wondering what the delay is also get the kids involved during the interval get them doing some competition with a couple of riders could be just kicking a ball through a goal or hooler hooping   anything just to keep interest going make it more of a show.When i look around at speedway the crowd look miserable you have got to give them more to keep the interest going all night,now we only get fifteen races if the meeting is dragging on the crowd need more things happening to keep them interested.

[orion]

27 minutes ago, speedy bill said:

The sooner we forget about the Poles and get back to doing our own thing the better,main thing getting back to our preferred  own race nights. Speedway needs to use Friday and Saturday nights to help bring young family's back with no school the next day ect.You all saw the trouble Rye House got in after moving from Saturday nights,Mondays and Wednesday just wont work getting crowds back.Also there must be better entertainment have plenty of info fed to the fans instead of leaving them stood around wondering what the delay is also get the kids involved during the interval get them doing some competition with a couple of riders could be just kicking a ball through a goal or hooler hooping   anything just to keep interest going make it more of a show.When i look around at speedway the crowd look miserable you have got to give them more to keep the interest going all night,now we only get fifteen races if the meeting is dragging on the crowd need more things happening to keep them interested.

Yea look at Workington and how Saturday nights were  helping them ...another myth 

Edited February 10, 2019 by orion

[speedy bill]

Workngton were killed off by their own success,that had them racing to many meeting at the end of the season crowds just could not be expected to attend two or more meeting in a week some against the same team They lost alot of money because of it Blame it on a bad fixture list thet had two many meetings crammed into the last week of the season ,after some teams had gaps of two or three weeks without a meeting  .Very bad fixture planning by b s p a

[orion]

6 minutes ago, speedy bill said:

Workngton were killed off by their own success,that had them racing to many meeting at the end of the season crowds just could not be expected to attend two or more meeting in a week some against the same team They lost alot of money because of it Blame it on a bad fixture list thet had two many meetings crammed into the last week of the season ,after some teams had gaps of two or three weeks without a meeting  .Very bad fixture planning by b s p a

Workington crowds have been droping for years ..each year has been  nip and tuck if they ran on or not ...Running on a sat night has hardly been a saviour for them 

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, orion said:

The excitement factor was far superior ..the racing was not . The one thing I have always noticed is how people forget about poor racing in the old days  .As I said misty eyes 

My lasting memory of the racing  is reality, yes there was some poor racing but by god there was some decent stuff as well.Now i could probably name on one hand the decent races i have seen in the last five years a real shame the sport can come again i just hope the damage done is not terminal.

[Chadster]

The standard of riders was obviously better back in the day, with most of the best riders in the world appearing in British racing, but that doesn't necessarily lead to better racing. The best guys were largely full time and filled their boots against riders who might be turning up with only one bike and riding at tracks they saw once a season. Obviously, there were great races but they stick out in the memory and the processions get forgotten about. Speedway seemed better  because there were bigger crowds and better presentation. Alan Morrey's two minute button at Belle Vue was legendary, whereas most of the recent meetings I've been to have dragged interminably. Speedway back in the 60s and 70s also benefitted from presenting more races. I've recently been looking at the Speedway Researcher website and the Coventry section for the early BL years has details of the second hald races. Coventry regularly put on 20 races, most tracks 19 and one or  two 21. The evening ended with a Rider of the Night final, which certainly in some of the runaway Belle Vue victories I saw was often the best race of the night and cute promoters elsewhere knew to get the riders to put on a show in the last race of the night (none of this should be seen as a plea for the return of the second half as they'd certainly had their day by the time they were got rid of).

The other thing was that speedway then was full of confidence; the formation of the Provincial League, the successful amalgamation of the PL and the NL and the formation of Division 2 all took place within a 10 year period and the sport seemed to be going places. Now, the atmosphere seems overwhelmingly negative, with  contraction not expansion the chief expectation. It's difficult to see a recovery like there was 50 years ago, but then that recovery could never have been predicted 10 years before it happened. Let's hope history repeats itself.

[orion]

21 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

My lasting memory of the racing  is reality, yes there was some poor racing but by god there was some decent stuff as well.Now i could probably name on one hand the decent races i have seen in the last five years a real shame the sport can come again i just hope the damage done is not terminal.

Sadly it is terminal ..I can't  see any way forward ..Each fan at each club  must wonder when they will  hear that there  club  is closing down .

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, orion said:

Sadly it is terminal ..I can't  see any way forward ..Each fan at each club  must wonder when they will  hear that there  club  is closing down .

The way the sport is losing impact year on year sadly I can envisage no long-term racing under the present form in the UK. Eventually I think team racing will cease and meetings will be rather akin to another format as used in the USA.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Guest

[Sidney the robin]

5 hours ago, orion said:

Sadly it is terminal ..I can't  see any way forward ..Each fan at each club  must wonder when they will  hear that there  club  is closing down .

Sadly i think you could be right, i felt this year Chapman had a chance to revamp the sport by trying something different but he chose not to.Do any of us have the real answers? i don't think so but i do believe when the show is put on right the product is still there.Chapman odviously has kept the show going by bailing Peterborough/Ipswich out which is commendable but the concerning thing is he seems to give the impression that everything is rosy in the garden and the show just plods on.