Rob Godfrey interview in Speedway Star

[orion]

8 minutes ago, Byker Biker said:

I love this thread, 6 pages of comments, criticism and downright slagging so far. I'd rather have read 6 pages of solutions to the crisis. Posters are confirming that they have no more idea than the BSPA who at least have tried, if the BSPA had the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us they would have undoubtedly made a better fist of it.

There are no solutions .if  you had  read the six pages you would understand most people feel the same .

[mikebv]

6 hours ago, Byker Biker said:

I love this thread, 6 pages of comments, criticism and downright slagging so far. I'd rather have read 6 pages of solutions to the crisis. Posters are confirming that they have no more idea than the BSPA who at least have tried, if the BSPA had the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us they would have undoubtedly made a better fist of it.

The benefit of hindsight? 

Really?

Do you really need hindsight to see that spending vast amounts more than you are bringing in, and racing on nights dictated to by your employees, rather than for the benefit of your customers, is anything other than a ludicrous business plan?..

Do you really need hindsight to see that trying to run a bona fide Sporting Championship, whilst sharing competitors with your rivals on an adhoc basis, is laughable and brings zero credibility to the very competition you are spending ridiculous sums trying to win?

Do you really need hindsight to see that you have, annually, lost thousands of fans due to your operating model and business plan and replaced them with very, very few new fans?

I would suggest anyone who didn't spot the current shambles being the obvious conclusion of their actions, must have very, very poor vision indeed, and not having hindsight is the least of their worries...

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by mikebv

[Sidney the robin]

6 hours ago, Byker Biker said:

I love this thread, 6 pages of comments, criticism and downright slagging so far. I'd rather have read 6 pages of solutions to the crisis. Posters are confirming that they have no more idea than the BSPA who at least have tried, if the BSPA had the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us they would have undoubtedly made a better fist of it.

Most of us just feel frustrated because we know just how good the sport can be.And let's be honest Biker is there any evidence to suggest the two frontman of British speedway listened to  anyone  anyway.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[stevehone]

if the BSPA pay set rates when paying part of debts, why can't ALL clubs use those same set rates to run? 

that way clubs can more or less keep to budget allowing for home and away results.

if clubs are found to go over the rates then there's a penalty, whether it be league points or position.

also riders know that others aren't getting more than them (on a points basis) and might do away with some animosity in the pits.

and if a club closes owing riders, they won't be out of pocket because the BSPA will pay that set rate.

individual sponsors can make up any shortfall for riders, and if the riders still can't get what they want then maybe the UK isn't for them in a time when ALL clubs need to be stable financially.

Edited February 12, 2019 by stevehone

[Byker Biker]

8 hours ago, mikebv said:

The benefit of hindsight? 

Really?

Do you really need hindsight to see that spending vast amounts more than you are bringing in, and racing on nights dictated to by your employees, rather than for the benefit of your customers, is anything other than a ludicrous business plan?..

Do you really need hindsight to see that trying to run a bona fide Sporting Championship, whilst sharing competitors with your rivals on an adhoc basis, is laughable and brings zero credibility to the very competition you are spending ridiculous sums trying to win?

Do you really need hindsight to see that you have, annually, lost thousands of fans due to your operating model and business plan and replaced them with very, very few new fans?

I would suggest anyone who didn't spot the current shambles being the obvious conclusion of their actions, must have very, very poor vision indeed, and not having hindsight is the least of their worries...

 

Until the sport is one business there will never be a common business plan, each club has differing levels of investment/expense/needs so the model for say Belle Vue will not fit Stoke and vice versa. A former Promoter who was losing a 6 figure some each season told me he wouldn't miss it yet by the same token a club that lost £40k over 3 seasons at the same time couldn't continue and chose to race in the NL. Such a huge disparity in financial resource will never bring the agendas together and there is always somebody who will run off to their legal counsel and threaten the members with "this is a cartel of businesses making rules and agreements to threaten my trade" which if proven has unlimited fines in law. (Coventry and Peterborough anyone).

The point I am making is that it is clear from all the comments on all the threads that all the members of this forum and all the members of the BSPA are in the same situation, they haven't a solution not withstanding the BSPA are beaten at every turn. I agree wholeheartedly with the nature of many of the criticisms and i don't agree with Rob's bull headed approach to most matters but his answers to the questions that were published clearly demonstrates an understanding of the mess even if he is trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted. What he has done in response to many of the critics is acknowledge the situation in stark contrast to the "everything in the garden is rosy" statements from the past that the BSPA has been vilified for by many or the same who are criticising now, but I respect your comments and response, thank you.

[Vince]

15 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

It certainly isn't at King's Lynn where I have been so turned off by the poor quality of racing over the last three seasons ( except for Robert Lambert - the only rider to make me want to go and watch there ) that I am unlikely to attend, on other than the odd occasion in 2019. Gate and Go, all over by half way round the first lap, Riders chasing ( with little hope of or interest in catching the man in front - processional mostly ).  And I have watched at Saddlebow Rd every year since it opened ) For me the racing in recent years is not a patch on what was on offer 10 - 40 years ago.

The track surface has changed a great deal the past few years at Kings Lynn, it used to be so grippy that plenty of decent riders really struggled to get turned. But those riders who could deal with it had lots of passing lines. It's a lot looser now and I think that is why the racing isn't as good. Whether the change is due to the track man, the shale available and/or the cost I have no idea but it's most definitely different.

[PHILIPRISING]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Most of us just feel frustrated because we know just how good the sport can be.And let's be honest Biker is there any evidence to suggest the two frontman of British speedway listened to  anyone  anyway.

IT is very easy to lay the blame at the door of Chapman or Godfrey alone. They are part of an organisation and do not have autonomy. Other promoters have an equal vote at the AGM or other meetings so what we have now is a collective decision not what either Chapman or Godfrey decided on their own. 

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

IT is very easy to lay the blame at the door of Chapman or Godfrey alone. They are part of an organisation and do not have autonomy. Other promoters have an equal vote at the AGM or other meetings so what we have now is a collective decision not what either Chapman or Godfrey decided on their own. 

I agree but why is speedway so different to other industries ( ie) not listening to the paying customer.? Alot of fans want different things so i know it is not a simple thing to address.But there are a few things in recent years that could of been changed that supporters wanted and would not of cost any money yet nothing changed.( 3 examples) 1.     7.30 start means a 7.30 start meeting to go through promptly.    2.If a rider does not touch the tapes referee made to release the tapes no call backs.     3. Kids get to see the riders before the start and mingle with them hopefully persuading them to be the next generation to replace the oldies.

[waytogo28]

27 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I agree but why is speedway so different to other industries ( ie) not listening to the paying customer.? Alot of fans want different things so i know it is not a simple thing to address.But there are a few things in recent years that could of been changed that supporters wanted and would not of cost any money yet nothing changed.( 3 examples) 1.     7.30 start means a 7.30 start meeting to go through promptly.    2.If a rider does not touch the tapes referee made to release the tapes no call backs.     3. Kids get to see the riders before the start and mingle with them hopefully persuading them to be the next generation to replace the oldies.

Sidney, you are much too revolutionary - such ideas as even contemplating taking up fans ideas ( even the inexpensive or free ones ). And we now know from Philip Rising that Chapman and Godfrey are really only "good old boys" deciding things with their speedway business pals. They are not to blame ( even after promising before they came to positions of "power" they could orchestrate a return to the glory days with their sound ideas ). Ah well, that did sound too good to be true. Only when the UK sport is prostrate ( having fallen from it's knees ) will they try one big league as many fans have proposed before Chapman & Godfrey were other than "rebel" voices inside the BSPA. Some do like to claim that no-one is too blame. Perhaps poltergeists in old stadiums? 

[Ghosty]

5 hours ago, stevehone said:

if the BSPA pay set rates when paying part of debts, why can't ALL clubs use those same set rates to run? 

that way clubs can more or less keep to budget allowing for home and away results.

if clubs are found to go over the rates then there's a penalty, whether it be league points or position.

also riders know that others aren't getting more than them (on a points basis) and might do away with some animosity in the pits.

and if a club closes owing riders, they won't be out of pocket because the BSPA will pay that set rate.

individual sponsors can make up any shortfall for riders, and if the riders still can't get what they want then maybe the UK isn't for them in a time when ALL clubs need to be stable financially.

Steve this will never work.. it's all to simple! set pay rates for each league, teams choose the league they can afford to pay the set pay rates, riders choose which league they want to race in. If a teams top rider scores 15 points & a lesser rider scores 5 points the the top rider will earn 3 times the points money of the lesser rider all to simple. You would also expect top riders & popular riders to pick up extra sponsorship both locally & nationally. Why should riders in the same team (excluding reserves races) be on different rates? All riders should be paid on the night by the HOME TEAM......Like I said all to simple so will never happen,,,,,,,,  P.S. Happy Snappen..

[TonyMac]

13 hours ago, Byker Biker said:

I love this thread, 6 pages of comments, criticism and downright slagging so far. I'd rather have read 6 pages of solutions to the crisis. Posters are confirming that they have no more idea than the BSPA who at least have tried, if the BSPA had the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us they would have undoubtedly made a better fist of it.

Well, as I suggested, IMMEDIATELY reducing team numbers from seven to six would be a good place to start to address the chronic rider shortage, so there's one short-term way of easing a major problem. No riders worthy of a team place would be out of work - not for long anyway.

[MattK]

14 hours ago, Byker Biker said:

I love this thread, 6 pages of comments, criticism and downright slagging so far. I'd rather have read 6 pages of solutions to the crisis. Posters are confirming that they have no more idea than the BSPA who at least have tried, if the BSPA had the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us they would have undoubtedly made a better fist of it.

The difference between the promoters and the fans is that they have all the information available at their fingertips to come up with a solution, whereas the fans have nothing. Share profit and loss, attendances, wages costs and so on with the fans and we can come up with a detailed, costed model for British speedway. Until then, fans are merely shooting in the dark.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, waytogo28 said:

Sidney, you are much too revolutionary - such ideas as even contemplating taking up fans ideas ( even the inexpensive or free ones ). And we now know from Philip Rising that Chapman and Godfrey are really only "good old boys" deciding things with their speedway business pals. They are not to blame ( even after promising before they came to positions of "power" they could orchestrate a return to the glory days with their sound ideas ). Ah well, that did sound too good to be true. Only when the UK sport is prostrate ( having fallen from it's knees ) will they try one big league as many fans have proposed before Chapman & Godfrey were other than "rebel" voices inside the BSPA. Some do like to claim that no-one is too blame. Perhaps poltergeists in old stadiums? 

All i really wanted waytogo28 was the  three thing's i mentioned, and getting a structure in place that give us a continual string of fixtures with at least 20 home fixtures.For me one of the problems speedway has is the fixture list is sparse and when fans get used to not going and do other activities it is very hard for the sport to entice some fans back.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[Speedtiger]

5 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

IT is very easy to lay the blame at the door of Chapman or Godfrey alone. They are part of an organisation and do not have autonomy. Other promoters have an equal vote at the AGM or other meetings so what we have now is a collective decision not what either Chapman or Godfrey decided on their own. 

Agreed, of course the BSPA/Promoters, past and present, are ultimately responsible and to blame for the mess...and are paying a heavy price for their compliancy...BUT I feel your view, albeit technically correct, is rather protecting the guilty. Chairman Chapman and VC Godfrey are culpable as they are the two who should be driving the sport forward...BUT sadly they are driving speedway off a cliff. The BSPA administration of speedway is top down management and Chapman, in particular, is responsible for more than his fair share of catastrophic (engines to name but one) blunders. He is clearly a megalomaniac with the attention span and acumen of a goldfish along with Godfrey, his equally 'not so bright' sidekick.

It is a fact that badly managed businesses eventually go bankrupted and the clueless twosome have disastrously presided over the speedways biggest decline for years and that has now seen the sport to be financially unsustainable with Clubs disastrously going bust each year, Clubs consistently loosing 6 figures sums per season, more Clubs (than is made public) are up for sale with zero chance of attracting a buyer...even Poole, arguably the most successful club in recent history, can not find a buyer. Seeing the crumbling state of speedway it is understandable that many promoters want to jump ship...as sadly the time to 'sort this mess out' lifeboat has sailed long-ago.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Speedtiger

[mikebv]

10 hours ago, stevehone said:

if the BSPA pay set rates when paying part of debts, why can't ALL clubs use those same set rates to run? 

that way clubs can more or less keep to budget allowing for home and away results.

if clubs are found to go over the rates then there's a penalty, whether it be league points or position.

also riders know that others aren't getting more than them (on a points basis) and might do away with some animosity in the pits.

and if a club closes owing riders, they won't be out of pocket because the BSPA will pay that set rate.

individual sponsors can make up any shortfall for riders, and if the riders still can't get what they want then maybe the UK isn't for them in a time when ALL clubs need to be stable financially.

Stop it!

Stop it now!...

We will have none of that common sense talk on here...

The BSPA also pay set rates out for their shared events..

Again, why are those rates OK to be paid then but that rate times several fold is paid for a League meeting?

A strange conundrum...

One day the rider is worth 'x', the next the same rider is worth 'y'...

For doing the same thing under the same organisation..

 

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, tmc said:

Well, as I suggested, IMMEDIATELY reducing team numbers from seven to six would be a good place to start to address the chronic rider shortage, so there's one short-term way of easing a major problem. No riders worthy of a team place would be out of work - not for long anyway.

Spot on..

A shortage of riders?

Then create less team places..

It isn't difficult to change supply and demand dynamics..

I would have gone as far as running with five man teams for this year to turn the 'tanker' around, and try and get 12 teams involved..

Home and Away twice (44 matches, 22 at Home)..

At a Championship level standard (from last year)) but removing one heat leader and one second string from last seasons teams..

With One reserve, at least, a two point Brit 'junior'..

The rest of the teams could have run at NL level..

Plenty of replacements generated for injuries and loss of form, just like 'proper' sports have. (Without rivals sharing competitors)!

£5k Max per team per night salary cap...

Maybe no superstars but credibility and affordable?

[The Third Man]

19 hours ago, iwright71 said:

Why aren't  people turning up in their droves  like they used to then ? 

No idea, but I don't think its the standard of racing, I cant see a major difference between now and 50 years ago  

[The Weasel]

5 hours ago, tmc said:

Well, as I suggested, IMMEDIATELY reducing team numbers from seven to six would be a good place to start to address the chronic rider shortage, so there's one short-term way of easing a major problem. No riders worthy of a team place would be out of work - not for long anyway.

It'll upset a few on here but we actually need less teams, too many can't afford to race at any sort of reasonable level and the sport cannot move forward whilst it panders to these clubs, you are only as strong as your weakest link.

[iwright71]

13 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

No idea, but I don't think its the standard of racing, I cant see a major difference between now and 50 years ago  

It seems we have a brilliant product that  nobody wants to pay to watch.  The mystery deepens 

[Halifaxtiger]

20 hours ago, Byker Biker said:

I love this thread, 6 pages of comments, criticism and downright slagging so far. I'd rather have read 6 pages of solutions to the crisis. Posters are confirming that they have no more idea than the BSPA who at least have tried, if the BSPA had the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us they would have undoubtedly made a better fist of it.

While this thread maybe full of aggression, the forum as a whole is packed with ideas from long standing, thinking and committed fans about how to improve the sport. Some are ridiculous, some are unworkable and some require the injection of unfeasibly huge amounts of cash. Some, however, might just be worth a try.

Problem is, with the exception of Barry Bishop, Neil Watson, Jayne Moss & Laurence Rogers not one single promoter or team manager engages with fans on this forum. Indeed, most of them treat it with utter contempt and even loathing. I should point out that Barry attracts 4 likes for every post he makes, a truly remarkable reflection of just how much his contribution is valued. 

Even if paying customers make constructive comment or suggestion, then, they aren't even read.

Its also indicative of just how those who run the sport view the fan who pays every week. The number of accounts of the quite dreadful way paying customers are treated is damning - I know, I have had some of that.

I'd say that much of the vilification is deserved. For me, the worst is the cheating, one-upmanship and culture of favours and corruption at the heart of the sport that leaves fans totally disillusioned. Its a bit of a long shot to say that without the decision to prevent Workington riding on Fridays last season the Comets might have survived - a decision motivated by the most appalling self interest - but it certainly didn't do them any favours.  I could probably name half a dozen occasions when rulings have been made that were completely contrary to the rules of the sport at the behest of one promoter or another.

The BSPA can legitimately blame the weather, landlords, riders, the press and heaven knows who else for the problems that the sport faces. But they can't get away from that one and I don't think the damage it has done can be overestimated. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Halifaxtiger